Runaway derailment from early last month in Indianapolis
http://www.wthr.com/article/csx-employee-accuses-company-of-hurried-culture-leading-to-recent-accidents
Article includes a 20 minute clip of the Train Dispatchers wire during the incident.
No Injuries - only equipement and track damage.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
PaulofCovington
Isn't all this turmoil just going according to plan?
jeffhergert Saturnalia Note also that for the railroads, growing traffic is not necessarily a good thing. Maury Kline pointed out Union Pacific's struggles with pricing between 1950-2000, as the railroad looked to balance profits, and eventually capacity. Our world runs on supply and demand, and today the major trunk lines are operating near capacity. Not all traffic is created equal. So, railroads have been raising rates to widen their margins and keep their railroads moving, forcing the customers looking for cheaper rates to look elsewhere. This is a natural consequence of any business which doesn't have the capacity to serve every potential customer. Not all business is good business! I didn't believe it for a good long time, but once you figure it out, you'll know why many banks don't want to hear about your risky startup idea! I wish we were near capacity on the Overland Route. At least they cut the pools down a bit. We have 40 trainmen borrowed out right now to two other seniority districts. Gives those hired and then furloughed (at least those who answered the recall) chance to work a few weeks before they get cut off again. Jeff
Saturnalia Note also that for the railroads, growing traffic is not necessarily a good thing. Maury Kline pointed out Union Pacific's struggles with pricing between 1950-2000, as the railroad looked to balance profits, and eventually capacity. Our world runs on supply and demand, and today the major trunk lines are operating near capacity. Not all traffic is created equal. So, railroads have been raising rates to widen their margins and keep their railroads moving, forcing the customers looking for cheaper rates to look elsewhere. This is a natural consequence of any business which doesn't have the capacity to serve every potential customer. Not all business is good business! I didn't believe it for a good long time, but once you figure it out, you'll know why many banks don't want to hear about your risky startup idea!
Note also that for the railroads, growing traffic is not necessarily a good thing. Maury Kline pointed out Union Pacific's struggles with pricing between 1950-2000, as the railroad looked to balance profits, and eventually capacity.
Our world runs on supply and demand, and today the major trunk lines are operating near capacity. Not all traffic is created equal. So, railroads have been raising rates to widen their margins and keep their railroads moving, forcing the customers looking for cheaper rates to look elsewhere. This is a natural consequence of any business which doesn't have the capacity to serve every potential customer.
Not all business is good business!
I didn't believe it for a good long time, but once you figure it out, you'll know why many banks don't want to hear about your risky startup idea!
I wish we were near capacity on the Overland Route. At least they cut the pools down a bit. We have 40 trainmen borrowed out right now to two other seniority districts. Gives those hired and then furloughed (at least those who answered the recall) chance to work a few weeks before they get cut off again.
Jeff
Before EHH, CSX was a scheduled railroad. Car schedules and train schedules. With EHH at the controls, all schedules have been trashed.
First, EHH has begun to reinstate operations at the hump in Avon, and I'm hearing Boyle's may be soon if not already returning to service already.
I think that as usual in this day and age, the media, or in this case the railfans, are quick to form a singluar narrative about this huge complex of issues. There is no doubt that CSX is in the greatest Class I meltdown since the Conrail Breakup, but it isn't just Harrison telling customers off.
Primarily, at least in the last two days, EHH has been tossing potshots at a railroad shipper's union, whose stated goal is reciprocal switching. Shocker to nobody, they're not going to let a good crisis go to waste. So yes EHH "blamed the shippers" in a way, but the true story involves much more than just his too-quick run at running CSX over the last few months.
Nothing happens in a vacuum. Shippers have been charging the railroads over service and pricing for years. While service isn't always great, pricing seems to be a major gripe lately. While still far below pre-Staggers Act rates and with much better service then back in the day, prices have climbed over the last several years, as railroads, much like other industries, look to widening their margins in order to grow, instead of organic traffic growth.
Don't you guys get it? After enough customers have left, his railroad will run smoothly.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
DeggestyHow infantile is Mr. Harrison going to be? He refuses to accept responsibility for the result of his actions.
Infantilism seems to be in vogue in many responsible positions these days.
How infantile is Mr. Harrison going to be? He refuses to accept responsibility for the result of his actions.
Johnny
BaltACD EHH spewing https://finance.yahoo.com/news/csxs-hunter-harrison-bashes-u-160343587.html
EHH spewing
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/csxs-hunter-harrison-bashes-u-160343587.html
Last month he blames the employees, this month he is dillusional enough to blame customers but of course, he is not to blame for any of this. He already has customers pulling away and I hear 2 MAJOR shippers have elected to not bother with CSX in 2018 and take the business elsewhere. I guess blaming he customers is a good way to deal with it....let see how pouringsalt into an open wound works out for him.
CSX is the USS Caine and Harrison is Captain Queeg
blue streak 1 Is it possible that we can smell a FBI raid in the offing ?
Is it possible that we can smell a FBI raid in the offing ?
Absolutely. There are no other problems and the FBI needs to keep busy..
These days sarcasm fuels the nation. We need an emoticon showing where sarcasm is missing.
I think any time you have some mischief on a message board/forum there probably sarcasm lurking nearby.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
mischief? or angry, since that is in theory the emotion underlying sarcasm. Some say it's passive aggressive, but I have doubts.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
This usually conveys the intention behind a comment.
Even though it isn't a real forum/html tag, [sarcasm] Sarcastic Remark [/sarcasm] usually works....
But you're right, those little inflections don't carry over well in print in most cases.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I'm with you on an indicator for sarcasm, it gets lost in printed form.
rrnut282rrnut282 wrote the following post 2 hours ago: schlimm, I had to re-read my post several times. I didn't mention EHH, you used him to create a strawman to argue against.
Hey, sorry, but nothing of the kind. It was just a (sarcastic) joke. I thought that was obvious but I'd better use the sarcasm emoji next time.
rrnut282I used the word 'mis-route' as I thought I heard the crew say their train, "was put on the wrong track out of Toledo."
Let me ask you to remember a bit more specifically. Did the crew say 'wrong track' or did they say 'wrong main'? The latter means something more specific and most certainly doesn't imply "misrouting".
Part of the problem here is that your post, innocently as it may have been intended, came right in the middle of a string of posts castigating Hunter Harrison for slowing down operations. It shouldn't be surprising that people presumed your intent was to demonstrate 'yet another' example of that, and (in part therefore) that schlimm understood your post as criticizing EHH even though you didn't name him implicitly. I had very much the same impression before I read your corrections.
Don't worry about people on the forum seeming overly prone to pounce. Some people, myself included, don't always use the niceties and netiquette we probably should in the heat of a discussion.
rrnut282schlimm, I had to re-read my post several times. I didn't mention EHH, you used him to create a strawman to argue against. n012944,I used the word 'mis-route' as I thought I heard the crew say their train, "was put on the wrong track out of Toledo." I tried to use a neutral term to make no inferrence as to intent or error, as I didn't have any more information than that to determine the reason. I apologize if it didn't sound that way. Is it any wonder participation here is slower than it used to be? I can't even say "this is what I saw and heard," without being rebutted.
I had to re-read my post several times. I didn't mention EHH, you used him to create a strawman to argue against.
n012944,I used the word 'mis-route' as I thought I heard the crew say their train, "was put on the wrong track out of Toledo." I tried to use a neutral term to make no inferrence as to intent or error, as I didn't have any more information than that to determine the reason. I apologize if it didn't sound that way.
Is it any wonder participation here is slower than it used to be? I can't even say "this is what I saw and heard," without being rebutted.
Having played in the arena for 26 years. Train ID's are a form of shorthand for all operating personal to identify the train, what it carries and its destination.
Anyone that thinks they can just 'throw any ID' on a train has no concept of how the railroad works. Certain Train ID's get operated on different route because of the ID - Train Dispatchers DO NOT REVIEW each trains 'wheel report' or consist to 'know' the actual destination of the cars in a train - they rely on the normal destination of the the Train ID to do that in 'shorthand form'.
IF a train is going to something different than its normal blocking and work - THE CHANGES HAVE TO BE EMPHASIZED to everybody that will have any contact with the train. The changes don't get trainsmitted by mental telepathy.
schlimm,
n012944,
I used the word 'mis-route' as I thought I heard the crew say their train, "was put on the wrong track out of Toledo." I tried to use a neutral term to make no inferrence as to intent or error, as I didn't have any more information than that to determine the reason. I apologize if it didn't sound that way.
n012944I hate to bring up facts in this conversation, since there seems to be so few. There was no "mis-routed" rack train. X276 was a detour because of the Sand Patch derailment, and its detour was the LONG way around. The track at Sand Patch was put back in service faster than anticipated, and it was decided to shove the track back at Deshler, and run on its normal route. It wasn't EHH, or a deliberate error. It was an operational decision.
Thanks for the correction. I should have realized that in any "heated" situation, truth is often a casuality.
n012944 schlimm rrnut282 Last Saturday, I drove two hours to Deshler to see how things were moving. They weren't. In five hours, only two trains on the two-track ex B&O Chicago line. the whole time I was there, they were trying to get a mis-routed rack train off the Toledo line and headed to Willard. It was still on the wrong track when I left. The locals said there were 3 dead trains between Deshler and Willard. I suppose the misrouting was EHH's doing? That, at least, seems to be an example of either an accidental or deliberate error by someone involved with traffic - a dispatcher? It takes very little to tie up traffic, as Balt has pointed out in the past. I hate to bring up facts in this conversation, since there seems to be so few. There was no "mis-routed" rack train. X276 was a detour because of the Sand Patch derailment, and its detour was the LONG way around. The track at Sand Patch was put back in service faster than anticipated, and it was decided to shove the track back at Deshler, and run on its normal route. It wasn't EHH, or a deliberate error. It was an operational decision.
schlimm rrnut282 Last Saturday, I drove two hours to Deshler to see how things were moving. They weren't. In five hours, only two trains on the two-track ex B&O Chicago line. the whole time I was there, they were trying to get a mis-routed rack train off the Toledo line and headed to Willard. It was still on the wrong track when I left. The locals said there were 3 dead trains between Deshler and Willard. I suppose the misrouting was EHH's doing? That, at least, seems to be an example of either an accidental or deliberate error by someone involved with traffic - a dispatcher? It takes very little to tie up traffic, as Balt has pointed out in the past.
rrnut282 Last Saturday, I drove two hours to Deshler to see how things were moving. They weren't. In five hours, only two trains on the two-track ex B&O Chicago line. the whole time I was there, they were trying to get a mis-routed rack train off the Toledo line and headed to Willard. It was still on the wrong track when I left. The locals said there were 3 dead trains between Deshler and Willard.
Last Saturday, I drove two hours to Deshler to see how things were moving. They weren't. In five hours, only two trains on the two-track ex B&O Chicago line. the whole time I was there, they were trying to get a mis-routed rack train off the Toledo line and headed to Willard. It was still on the wrong track when I left. The locals said there were 3 dead trains between Deshler and Willard.
I suppose the misrouting was EHH's doing? That, at least, seems to be an example of either an accidental or deliberate error by someone involved with traffic - a dispatcher? It takes very little to tie up traffic, as Balt has pointed out in the past.
I hate to bring up facts in this conversation, since there seems to be so few. There was no "mis-routed" rack train. X276 was a detour because of the Sand Patch derailment, and its detour was the LONG way around. The track at Sand Patch was put back in service faster than anticipated, and it was decided to shove the track back at Deshler, and run on its normal route.
It wasn't EHH, or a deliberate error. It was an operational decision.
The question was asked on the radio show "car talk" several years ago. If someone posts something that is clearly in error, and someone else responds with something that is equally wrong, do we know more or less as a result of the second post?
An "expensive model collector"
Schlimm do you have any clue on how logistics works at all. If a route is plugged you try and find a way around the blockage. The problem with railroads when one line gets plugged and the dispatchers start playing lets use this line they run out of crews and tracks they have in a hurry. We are both very familar with Chicago traffic patterns. Rush hour in Chicago can be a royal PITA on a good freaking day. Well say there is a major accident on the Ike inbound that is going to take 4 hours to clear up rolled over semi leaking cargo and such and those can take a while to clean up if it is hazmat. First off the Tristate is going to be jammed up to the Kennedy going north then inbound is going to be a mess on the Kennedy. If they can get in via 55 that is going to be a parking lot in a hurry from overloading. The side streets and roads are going to be jammed solid in a hurry. It happens then the delays and bad tempers happen.
That was one accident in a major city we are talking a systemwide melting down of a railroad that is starting to become paralized from their CEO's actions and orders. They are running out of places to stash cars and trains crews are becoming tired engines are going to start to breakdown and pretty soon it will spread across the nation as interchange between CSX and the Western railroads breakdown. Why am I saying this it is so simple. CSX can't take the cars they need to from UP and BNSF and they will have stash them someplace they will run out of places to hold them also. This meltdown unless something is done soon is going to dang near stop the railroads. I'm already seeing it on the BNSF trains I know that interchange with the CSX are shorter than normal. Their normal 12K footer that was run thru for the CSX has been cancelled until further notice due to service issues on CSX.
I am of the opinion that Harrison has "Peter principled out". His successes at CN and CP improved the railroads to a degree but there was a lot of 'cleanup' that had to be done after his departure from both.
Sure, getting operations on CSX's major corridors in order and delivering to customers in the promised time is admirable. Falsh back to when he took the reins at CN and ask what customers had to say about service in that era. It became so bad General Motors trucked production to Conrail in Utica, MI to avoid dealing with his dictatorial edicts that they capitulate to his demands.
CN, and to some extent CP have recovered from his dictitorial edicts but it has taken time for both of the above to resolve the problems he created.
CSX is a 'whole nuther kettle of fish' with I'm not sure Harrison in competent enough to deal with.
Norm
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