Interchanging from Short Line to Class 1

[SFbrkmn]

Couple of interchange examples that will be kept short and not take up two or three pages and not get too boring detailed. Just because rr A brings a interchange cut to rr B does not mean those cars can be pulled. If there are haz mat cars involved, the list has to be in exact correct order and haz mat shipment papers have to match with any such car involved. If not, the cars don't go for a ride. This happens all time w/ SKO to BNSF interchange @ Winfield. You would think after all tyese yrs, the shortline would get it but they don't. Another example is GCW to BNSF interchange. Many times the cars GCW brings over are not even in the BNSF inventory. If haz mats are involved, again the cars don't go for a ride. The KO @ Wichita one night last yr brought the haz mat cut to the BNSF yd. Many of the cars did not have haz mat papers w/them. BNSF by law could not sign off on chain custody. 

[Convicted One]

Who is typically $responsible$ for maintenance of the track (sidings) where such interchange is set out to wait?

[tree68]

I've watched the interchange operation at Utica for a few years now.  The short line (MWHA) leaves their outbound cars on a designated track (on the west end of the yard), with an "air slip" so CSX doesn't have to inspect them.  A westbound CSX train (usually Q621) makes the pickup, leaving their train on the main while they dive in and pick up the pickups.

I'm presuming that anything that might be headed east gets picked off at Syracuse (or maybe Buffalo), but I've never investigated that.

CSX makes drops for MWHA on the east end of the yard (CP235).  I've never watched that operation, so can't say anything about it.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Thanks guys for the quick and thorough answers, for both the Class 1's and the Class 2's & 3's - I thought you'd come through for me !    

I believe you've answered all my questions - including some I didn't think to ask.  Frankly, I'm a little surprised at the "we'll pick up whatever's there, as long as the paperwork is with it" practice and the 'near real time' capability, but that's why I asked.  

Thanks again.

- PDN. 

[edblysard]

Balt pretty much covered it, although at my railroad, there are two interchanges per day with UP and BNSF, morning and evening and a single afternoon one with KCS…and interchange occurs at both North Yard and Pasadena yard.

As he noted, the interchange is scheduled, in a fashion….the Class 1s have a window to show up with the cars they are bringing us, after dropping off, they leave with cars we gathered up for them…and we will add cars to those trains right up until time for the ground air to be set.

 

As for grabbing a last minute car out of an industry, (one of our on line customers) we normally call for updates when we get permission to initially enter and work the plants, so any last minute changes not on our paperwork can be noted and handled then…in the 20 years I did this, only once did we go back to a plant and pull a single cars for expedited service, and the customer paid a fee equal to hiring one of our switch crews and locomotives for a day.

Back when I first started, customers would call our clerks to make arrangements for the next days or next shifts work, and our clerks would type up and print off our paperwork, we would gather all this up at the beginning of our shifts, and head out to work the plants.

Every plant had a mailbox at or near the switch leading into their facility, and any changes were written on a preprinted form and left in the mailbox for us…no mail meant no changes, and to gain access to most plants, a few toots on the locomotive horn would call a guard or someone to open the gates…in some instances, where there were no gates or those with standing orders, we simply check the mail box and then go right in.

At the end of our shifts, we would phone the chief clerk’s office and report work done, time and such, plus any changes, additions or no show cars.

Now days, with the advent of the internet and the use of computers, all of that changes…scanners read off our pulls and deliveries into and out of plants, our work orders can be updated at the last minute, in fact, we wait till we are on duty and then print them out just to catch the last minute changes because customers can electronically add changes now.

Morning and afternoon conference calls between our yardmasters, trainmaster and superintendent and their class 1 counterparts insures we all are playing on the same page.

 

As for any customer requesting that the interchange be held up for a last minute change, not a chance…but then again we will arrange with our Class 1 members any special movements and interchange…the windmill or wind turbine fan trains are special movements coordinated between us, the shipper/receiver and the class 1, as are the transformer movements with Schnabel cars out of the ABB plant, or special movements from the city docks.

We arranged the movement of an assembled catalytic cracker from the Houston city docks to BNSF for shipment to Denver in a special interchange, (there is even a web page out there about it!)

To maybe clarify part of this, the Class 1 conductor will have a preprinted list of the cars he is to pick up at the interchange point, such list most likely was printed just before he leaves his home terminal from information provided earlier by the local or class 2 or 3 road the interchange is to occur with .

if the interchange is to happen outside of an active yard, say there is a siding or a small unmanned yard where the Class 3 leaves their interchange cars for the Class 1, they will “phone in” the train consist to the Class 1 before- hand and the conductor who leaves the cars there for the class 1 will have left a copy of his paperwork and lists there with the cars for the class 1 conductor to compare with his paperwork.

Most often, there is a mailbox at the location for such paperwork, but it can be a simple as rolling it up and leaving it stuck in the knuckle of the cars!

If the Class 1 conductor find an extra car(s) in the consist, he can, if he chooses, cut it out and leave it there, or hand write it in on his paperwork and take it with them, and there are provisions for this in the rules.

 

If the interchange is happening in a manned or active yard, most often, like here at my railroad, the Class 1 conductor will pick up a new complete list and paperwork at the yard office, with that list and paperwork being printed up as he waits, including any additions to the list, so he leaves out with a absolute up to date set of papers.

[BaltACD]

Class 1's and Short Lines normally have a 'operating plan' about their interchange activities.  Track(s) are designated at the interchange location for the purpose of interchange.  Each carrier accepts (operationally) all cars that are placed on the designated interchange track - the only exception would be for HAZMAT cars that don't have the prescribed paperwork (real or electronic).

Normally each carrier has agreed to time frames they will service the interchange.  Daily operational issues may cause changes to the time frame and may even cause the interchange not to be serviced on a particular day (which can create a whole new set of issues).  Each carriers serving jobs are placed on duty at their origin with the interchange window being one of the determinates, along with other duties the job must perform as to the actual on duty time for the job.  Remember, each carriers crew has 12 hours from their on duty time to complete their work.

Interchange is not based on notice - it is based on actually placing the cars on the interchange track (and the corresponding electronic report of that fact - between the involved carriers and the AAR [the AAR maintains a data base of car movement records for all carriers - that is used by shippers, consignees and 3rd party logistics management firms].

Most, if not all, Class 1's have some form of electronic work order system for dealing with their customers needs in near real time.

The process is simple and complicated all at the same time.  Most of the complications are not seen by the T&E crews performing the car movements.

While a Short Line may service a customer more often than daily, interchanges are rarely serviced more than daily.  If the interchange volume warrents it may get serviced multiple times per day - this is exceedingly rare.

If a customer is willing to incur Special Train Charges (and they are signifigant) over and above the normal freight charges - special, expedited arrangements can be made to move the shipment - this would require detailed arrangements between the carriers involved and would involve specific supervision by each carriers supervisory personnel - think oversized, overweight loads as being the most common Special Train movements.

[dehusman]

Generally the locals or the train that does the interchange runs on a "schedule", it runs so many days a week and more or less the same time.  The shortline drops the cars on the interchange and the class 1 picks them up when they get there.  The waybills and data are transmitted electronically to the main frame and whatever is on the work order documents when the class 1 local leaves the yard, is what they pull, unless they have some sort of onboard computer or handheld (which many railroads/jobs do not), then its near real time.

Since the class 1 may switch the interchange once a day or every other day or the interchange may roll to the next day because the local is past the interchange.

Also the transit time has to look at the next connection past the yard.  there was once customer that insisted that we pick up his cars AS SOON as they were released, even though if they waited to have them pulled by a later train they would actually have a day earlier departure out of the yard.  If the class 1 train isn't going to pull the interchange until 8 pm, sending a shortline switcher out to pull them from industry "immediately" when they are released at 10 am isn't going to gain anybody anything really.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

How much advance notice does the Class 1 need - and what are the 'nuts-and-bolts' mechanics of this ?  (presuming the business arrrangements of route and rates, etc. are already in place)

Suppose a good shipping customer of the short line calls and says that 5 carloads will be available for it to pick-up in 2 hours, and then sends the electronic waybills.  The short line sends a locomotive with crew and does that, then immediately heads for the interchange point, arriving there about an hour later to wait for the Class 1's train to show up.  

But before all this happened, the Class 1's local train departed its originating yard a few hours earlier, with a certain set of locomotives and HP, and the electronic 'switch list' already in the hands (computer) of its conductor. 

I suspect the Class 1's train can't just pick up anything the shortline shows up with - without any prior notice, unless the waybills were by then available to the Class 1 and the local's crew.  And maybe not even then, if the pickup wasn't on the crew's work list.  And how would any such changes be communicated to that crew ?

So does it work like this, or differently ? 

How much advance notice does the Class 1 need ? 

What else goes into or affects this process ? 

On a smaller scale, how does this process work with a shipper that's directly on the Class 1 line, or even a switching line like Ed Blysard's ?  Can Ed and his crew pick up a car that's been added aafter they've left their yard with that day's switch list ?

- PDN. 

P.S. - This line of inquiry was prompted by the "WSOR 2017 Marketing Award" thread - i.e., coordinating those shipments with NS and BNSF.