One cannot understand where railroaders come from unless they themselves have worked in the discipline and fire without cause, guilty until reluctantly proven innocent, and do as I say or else environment.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
SD70M-2Dude Ulrich SD70M-2Dude Ulrich Sure one can.. in fact one must. Employee and customer turnover is very expensive. Can't afford to continually be hiring and firing.. Especially when arbitrators un-fire people, and give them their jobs back with back-pay. Also I have a question that I have posed several times in one way, shape or form over the past few years in EHH-related discussions on the forum, but have never gotten a complete answer to: Cost cutting and management change is necessary from time to time in any industry, but why must Hunter Harrison and his subordinates go about it with a condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude towards the employees? What is gained through that approach that could not be gained without it? The various news articles posted earlier in this thread give a very good description of what I mean by "condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude". It's a rough business... I'm treated that way every day of the week by various parties and don't worry about it. It is what it is.. so long as nobody gets hurt and the money rolls in, that's what its all about. So, suck it up and shut up? The reason we have unions is because workers decided that wasn't a good option. And people do get hurt, physically and emotionally. Offhand I can think of 2 incidents that caused 4 deaths on the job and 1 severe injury that resulted from cutbacks and poor management while EHH was at CN. And being stressed out from having your work life screwed around with causes problems that follow people home. And that still doesn't answer my question: What is gained through that approach that could not be gained otherwise?
Ulrich SD70M-2Dude Ulrich Sure one can.. in fact one must. Employee and customer turnover is very expensive. Can't afford to continually be hiring and firing.. Especially when arbitrators un-fire people, and give them their jobs back with back-pay. Also I have a question that I have posed several times in one way, shape or form over the past few years in EHH-related discussions on the forum, but have never gotten a complete answer to: Cost cutting and management change is necessary from time to time in any industry, but why must Hunter Harrison and his subordinates go about it with a condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude towards the employees? What is gained through that approach that could not be gained without it? The various news articles posted earlier in this thread give a very good description of what I mean by "condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude". It's a rough business... I'm treated that way every day of the week by various parties and don't worry about it. It is what it is.. so long as nobody gets hurt and the money rolls in, that's what its all about.
SD70M-2Dude Ulrich Sure one can.. in fact one must. Employee and customer turnover is very expensive. Can't afford to continually be hiring and firing.. Especially when arbitrators un-fire people, and give them their jobs back with back-pay. Also I have a question that I have posed several times in one way, shape or form over the past few years in EHH-related discussions on the forum, but have never gotten a complete answer to: Cost cutting and management change is necessary from time to time in any industry, but why must Hunter Harrison and his subordinates go about it with a condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude towards the employees? What is gained through that approach that could not be gained without it? The various news articles posted earlier in this thread give a very good description of what I mean by "condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude".
Ulrich Sure one can.. in fact one must. Employee and customer turnover is very expensive. Can't afford to continually be hiring and firing..
Sure one can.. in fact one must. Employee and customer turnover is very expensive. Can't afford to continually be hiring and firing..
Especially when arbitrators un-fire people, and give them their jobs back with back-pay.
Also I have a question that I have posed several times in one way, shape or form over the past few years in EHH-related discussions on the forum, but have never gotten a complete answer to:
Cost cutting and management change is necessary from time to time in any industry, but why must Hunter Harrison and his subordinates go about it with a condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude towards the employees? What is gained through that approach that could not be gained without it?
The various news articles posted earlier in this thread give a very good description of what I mean by "condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude".
It's a rough business... I'm treated that way every day of the week by various parties and don't worry about it. It is what it is.. so long as nobody gets hurt and the money rolls in, that's what its all about.
So, suck it up and shut up? The reason we have unions is because workers decided that wasn't a good option.
And people do get hurt, physically and emotionally. Offhand I can think of 2 incidents that caused 4 deaths on the job and 1 severe injury that resulted from cutbacks and poor management while EHH was at CN. And being stressed out from having your work life screwed around with causes problems that follow people home.
And that still doesn't answer my question: What is gained through that approach that could not be gained otherwise?
I get that.. and I'm no fan of bad behavior either. Nor would I advocate sucking it up. Personally it just doesn't touch me.. (unless its my wife or kids doing the misbehaving). Unions obviously don't change rude and insensitive behaviors. so long as the bad "behaver" does his/her job and contributes to the bottom line without hurting anyone then I'll tolerate it. Lots of different perosnalities in the workplace, and you're not going to change anyone so may as well not let it bother you. OH yeah, and to answer your question, there's really nothing gained by bad bahavior like this.. but what are you going to do.. people are the way they are.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
wanswheel SD70M-2Dude They even married into the Harrison family. Harrison's daughters: Libby is Mrs. Earl Julo and Cayce is Mrs. Quentin Judge. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/careers-leadership/cps-hunter-harrison-there-is-a-new-sheriff-in-town/article6122334/?page=all http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Sydney-Harrison&lc=2230&pid=179848097&mid=6911136
SD70M-2Dude They even married into the Harrison family.
Harrison's daughters: Libby is Mrs. Earl Julo and Cayce is Mrs. Quentin Judge.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/careers-leadership/cps-hunter-harrison-there-is-a-new-sheriff-in-town/article6122334/?page=all
http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/dignity-memorial/obituary.aspx?n=Sydney-Harrison&lc=2230&pid=179848097&mid=6911136
I'm told Boychuk married Harrison's niece. The story about Creel may have been wrong
Sure, in cases where the employer is in violation. The law applies to everyone.
SD70M-2DudeEspecially when arbitrators un-fire people, and give them their jobs back with back-pay.
Amazing how arbitrators discern real facts and rules application as well as application of laws of the land to the cases brought before them.
Similar to how appelate judges review cases and their compliance with the laws under which they were prosecuted as well as the compliance of those laws to the Constitution.
Regal fiat in the USA ended with the defeat of King George III and the British in 1783.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
schlimm tree68 schlimm EHH knows a lot more about management than ANY of us. The question is what kind of management does he know a lot about - efficient railroad management, or maximum return for the investors management... Past experience seems to indicate he's far better a wringing out a return for the investors... As I recall, that is the point of capitalism. Some folks on here have suggested I am a socialist because I am critical of the supremacy of the profit motive. I am saying you can't have your true capitalist cake and eat it (service, treating employees decently, etc.) too.
tree68 schlimm EHH knows a lot more about management than ANY of us. The question is what kind of management does he know a lot about - efficient railroad management, or maximum return for the investors management... Past experience seems to indicate he's far better a wringing out a return for the investors...
schlimm EHH knows a lot more about management than ANY of us.
The question is what kind of management does he know a lot about - efficient railroad management, or maximum return for the investors management...
Past experience seems to indicate he's far better a wringing out a return for the investors...
As I recall, that is the point of capitalism. Some folks on here have suggested I am a socialist because I am critical of the supremacy of the profit motive. I am saying you can't have your true capitalist cake and eat it (service, treating employees decently, etc.) too.
Literally cannot believe I just read this. My god.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
BaltACD A hole's by nature are and always will act like A holes. If subordinates hitch their star to an A hole they will also act like an A hole to get at-a-boys from the head A hole.
A hole's by nature are and always will act like A holes. If subordinates hitch their star to an A hole they will also act like an A hole to get at-a-boys from the head A hole.
Describes Creel and Jamie Boychuk to a tee. They even married into the Harrison family.
SD70M-2DudeCost cutting and management change is necessary from time to time in any industry, but why must Hunter Harrison and his subordinates go about it with a condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude towards the employees? What is gained through that approach that could not be gained without it? The various news articles posted earlier in this thread give a very good description of what I mean by "condescending, belittling and disrespectful attitude".
At CN Claud Mongeau came after EHH and Luc Jobin recently took over from Mongeau due to the former's health issues. Both of EHH's successors at CN could arguably be called planters, in keeping with the above analogy. There's a time to cut and there's a time to plant.. and as far as business goes there are CEO's who specialize in one or the other. Rarely does one find an individual who is equally adept at both. Some CEO's are agents of rapid change while others are more mainstream caretaker types who grow the business without rocking the boat too much. We need both types.
UlrichBut the loggers and tree planters aren't the same people.. EHH is a "logger" he probably knows that replanting will need to take place later, but his job as leader now is to take care of the logging. In a smaller business the logger and the planter is often the same person out of necessity.
EHH fancys himself as a clear cutter. Trump should have named him Secretary of Transportation. Conestoga wagon builders would rejoice.
UlrichBut the loggers and tree planters aren't the same people...
But they may well work for the same company, which wants to be able to come back in 25 years and cut more lumber...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
But the loggers and tree planters aren't the same people.. EHH is a "logger" he probably knows that replanting will need to take place later, but his job as leader now is to take care of the logging. In a smaller business the logger and the planter is often the same person out of necessity.
schlimmAs I recall, that is the point of capitalism. Some folks on here have suggested I am a socialist because I am critical of the supremacy of the profit motive. I am saying you can't have your true capitalist cake and eat it (service, treating employees decently, etc.) too.
It all comes down to what one wants out of the system. A capitalist can run a business with the intention to make it grow - put some profits into improvements and pay the rest to the investors.
Or a capitalist can run a business with the intention to wring every possible cent out of it, improvements be d****d.
Loggers learned long ago that if they wanted to stay in business, they had to plant trees to replace those they had cut. I get the impression that folks like EHH would consider the expense of planting new trees as an extravagance that cut into the bottom line. Might better sell the land.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Paul_D_North_Jr BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. [snipped - PDN] Heck, I understand that at IC, CN, and CP, he's had a computer at his house, and micro-managed the DS and train movements from there. Why should this be any different ? So maybe that's his intended mode of operation. Try explaining anything to that "Wizard of Oz" ! - PDN.
BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. [snipped - PDN]
Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. [snipped - PDN]
Heck, I understand that at IC, CN, and CP, he's had a computer at his house, and micro-managed the DS and train movements from there. Why should this be any different ? So maybe that's his intended mode of operation. Try explaining anything to that "Wizard of Oz" !
- PDN.
Your petty sniping is unbecoming. EHH knows a lot more about management than ANY of us. Wait and see. If CSX were so efficient already, why is its OR so high?
Globe & Mail keeps going after CP:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cp-draws-fire-for-using-managers-to-operate-trains-following-collision-in-bc/article34315359/?arc404=true
Note that the CIRB (Canadian Industrial Relations Board, kind of like the federal supreme court for labour disputes) has consistently ruled against CP, but the matter is still ongoing because the Company doesn't seem to be obeying their rulings.
BigGripIn order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. [snipped - PDN]
BaltACD rockymidlandrr BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. The CSX BoD should be ashamed, buying damaged goods at a hefty price tag. If he was a contract employee he would have been fired for absenteeism at this point. Speaking of absenteeism, management just pulled all the vacation days on the weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) for the rest of the 2nd quarter. Stated that due to the massive layoff on the weekends they couldnt run trains. Fact- They couldn't run trains due to lack of manpower in January but they still furloughed 40 more. Fact- The numbers have been ran, layoffs are actually down compared to this time last year. Fact- There will be a lot of folks in the attendance policy due to this. Think about it, I know of at least 3 getting married before June. I don't beleive for one instance they will cancel their wedding due to vacation days being taken away. Fact- This shortage is due to CSX. They have had 130 people furloughed for over two years now. FRA states that if you haven't seen your territory in two years as a Conductor you are no longer qualified on that territory. They are in the process of bringing 20-30 back, but having to pay them to get requalified now when their services were needed months ago. But its funny how the CEO doesn't have to abide by the same rules that we do. It used to be when calling employees back from furlough, 80-90% of those furloughed would return. In recent years that number has been in the 20-30% range. Just calling furloughs back doesn't fill the vacancies and then the crunch to hire and train just so at the next blip in the metrics the new hires can be furloughed to.
rockymidlandrr BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. The CSX BoD should be ashamed, buying damaged goods at a hefty price tag. If he was a contract employee he would have been fired for absenteeism at this point. Speaking of absenteeism, management just pulled all the vacation days on the weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) for the rest of the 2nd quarter. Stated that due to the massive layoff on the weekends they couldnt run trains. Fact- They couldn't run trains due to lack of manpower in January but they still furloughed 40 more. Fact- The numbers have been ran, layoffs are actually down compared to this time last year. Fact- There will be a lot of folks in the attendance policy due to this. Think about it, I know of at least 3 getting married before June. I don't beleive for one instance they will cancel their wedding due to vacation days being taken away. Fact- This shortage is due to CSX. They have had 130 people furloughed for over two years now. FRA states that if you haven't seen your territory in two years as a Conductor you are no longer qualified on that territory. They are in the process of bringing 20-30 back, but having to pay them to get requalified now when their services were needed months ago. But its funny how the CEO doesn't have to abide by the same rules that we do.
BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. The CSX BoD should be ashamed, buying damaged goods at a hefty price tag. If he was a contract employee he would have been fired for absenteeism at this point.
In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work.
Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call.
The CSX BoD should be ashamed, buying damaged goods at a hefty price tag. If he was a contract employee he would have been fired for absenteeism at this point.
Speaking of absenteeism, management just pulled all the vacation days on the weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) for the rest of the 2nd quarter. Stated that due to the massive layoff on the weekends they couldnt run trains.
Fact- They couldn't run trains due to lack of manpower in January but they still furloughed 40 more.
Fact- The numbers have been ran, layoffs are actually down compared to this time last year.
Fact- There will be a lot of folks in the attendance policy due to this. Think about it, I know of at least 3 getting married before June. I don't beleive for one instance they will cancel their wedding due to vacation days being taken away.
Fact- This shortage is due to CSX. They have had 130 people furloughed for over two years now. FRA states that if you haven't seen your territory in two years as a Conductor you are no longer qualified on that territory. They are in the process of bringing 20-30 back, but having to pay them to get requalified now when their services were needed months ago.
But its funny how the CEO doesn't have to abide by the same rules that we do.
It used to be when calling employees back from furlough, 80-90% of those furloughed would return. In recent years that number has been in the 20-30% range. Just calling furloughs back doesn't fill the vacancies and then the crunch to hire and train just so at the next blip in the metrics the new hires can be furloughed to.
I can't blame those that don't return at all. Who would want to have to worry week to week they had a job or not. Out of those they have called back, I would expect about half to return and other half to tell them to shove the railroad where the sun doesn't shine.
Ya know folks we have been watching this scenario for many years. Company X hires who they think is the biggest and brightest CEO who then drives said company into bankruptcy and gets millions in the process. Think Sears, and perhaps J C Penny as a couple of examples. Both were once flourishing corporations with appropriate rewards to their stockholders. Now, those two are no more than a shadow in the marketplace.
Was it lazy employees who drove the companies to that point? Nope, it was the idiots at the top. They got the "golden parachutes", or as the song said, "she got the gold mine and I got the shaft". Employees and the public are the ones who ultimately suffer the misfortunes. Nuff said.
Norm
BaltACD rockymidlandrr BigGrip In order to create a culture, change the world as we know it and everything else EHH is supposed to do, he must first report to work. Multiple crediable sources at CSX HQ tell me that EHH hasn't even shown his face at HQ due to his health. Conducts everything via conference call. The CSX BoD should be ashamed, buying damaged goods at a hefty price tag. If he was a contract employee he would have been fired for absenteeism at this point. Speaking of absenteeism, management just pulled all the vacation days on the weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) for the rest of the 2nd quarter. Stated that due to the massive layoff on the weekends they couldnt run trains. Fact- They couldn't run trains due to lack of manpower in January but they still furloughed 40 more. Fact- The numbers have been ran, layoffs are actually down compared to this time last year. Fact- There will be a lot of folks in the attendance policy due to this. Think about it, I know of at least 3 getting married before June. I don't beleive for one instance they will cancel their wedding due to vacation days being taken away. Fact- This shortage is due to CSX. They have had 130 people furloughed for over two years now. FRA states that if you haven't seen your territory in two years as a Conductor you are no longer qualified on that territory. They are in the process of bringing 20-30 back, but having to pay them to get requalified now when their services were needed months ago. But its funny how the CEO doesn't have to abide by the same rules that we do. "It used to be when calling employees back from furlough, 80-90% of those furloughed would return. In recent years that number has been in the 20-30% range. Just calling furloughs back doesn't fill the vacancies and then the crunch to hire and train just so at the next blip in the metrics the new hires can be furloughed to."
"It used to be when calling employees back from furlough, 80-90% of those furloughed would return. In recent years that number has been in the 20-30% range. Just calling furloughs back doesn't fill the vacancies and then the crunch to hire and train just so at the next blip in the metrics the new hires can be furloughed to."
And This: Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 5:54 PM
"It would be interesting to ask questions about this personnel situation - crews, but also EHH - at the next annual shareholders meeting . . . "
The next meeting of the CSX Board of Directors, seems to be one of those places "...OH! to be a fly on the wall..." and it would be an interesting observing, and listening session. At the very least, it seems that the CSX BofD has put one of its' corporate appendages in the proverbial wringer.
It would be interesting to ask questions about this personnel situation - crews, but also EHH - at the next annual shareholders meeting . . .
Does the CEO have any idea of what the rules require of his employees, especially concerning qualification?
Johnny
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