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Starting up a train.. is it done by "feel"?

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, February 23, 2017 6:10 PM

Engineers are the original slackers!

The reality of what their job encompasess is controlling the slack within whatever size train they are charged with operating.  Mishandling the slack very easily results in broken knuckles, pulled out drawbars and derailments - all because the engineer did not control the slack properly with the tools at his disposal - the throttle, dynamic brakes, air brakes and on some carriers Distributed Power Units throughout the train.  In the world of yesteryear they held the Conductor & Flagman's lives in their hands - unexpected slack actions could kill them, bouncing them around inside the caboose or throwing them off the caboose.  Without cabooses today there are no other crew members to comment on the engineers abilbity to control the slack in his train.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, February 23, 2017 5:06 PM

timz

No skill involved in starting a train on level track. Starting a tonnage train on an upgrade is tougher, especially if all the engines are at the front of the train. You have to release the brakes, which takes time, and you don't want to pull hard until all the brakes are released, but you don't want to roll downhill backwards when the brakes do release.

 

Yes, no skill at all with a 12000 ton 10000ft train comprised of loads and empties with lots of cusioned/long travel drawbars slopped together with the slack bunched when the inbound crew stopped.  (Note about slopped together.  Built to meet system standards, but still puts a blocks of empties right in front of loads, etc.)  Come out too fast on the throttle and you might just find that weak knuckle.  Or drawbar.

As for starting out on a grade.  I once started a heavy manifest with a two on the front and a DPU on the back end on our ruling grade.  I had been having problems with the DPU loading eratically and had reported it to locomotive mtce.  They thought the problem was dirty fuel filters.  We finally got over the top of the hill.  When we got into my home terminal, the MIC (mechanic in charge) was there to change out the filters.  I told the outbound engineer of our problems.

I talked to him about a week later.  He said halfway through his trip they discovered the problem wasn't the fuel filters.  He had still been having problems after they were changed.  They had been stopped on level ground waiting on traffic and when they started to move he had decided for some reason to start the DPU up first.  It started pulling them backwards.  The DP had been setup in the originating yard wrong.  There's a switch/button when linking the DP for "Same as/Opposite as" orientation to the lead controlling unit.  The DP was trying to go the opposite way of the head end because the switch was set wrong.  I'm not the only one who has experienced this, but fortunately it is a rare occurance.

Jeff  

'    

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Posted by traisessive1 on Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:06 AM

Only .85 hpt? Ha. CN is running our unit trains at .38 hpt with AC power. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 9:03 PM

The November 2016 issue of Trains -

http://trn.trains.com/issues/2016/november-2016 

- had this 'railroader's recollection' piece: 

Two experienced railroaders move a train out of a tunnel  [pgs. 58 - 59]

The essence of the story was how they got a CN train - stalled in the former GTW St. Clair Tunnel from Sarnia, Ontario to Port Huron, Michigan after breaking a knuckle - moving again, with only 0.859 HP/ton !  It was a done with a whole lot of experience and judgment in balancing the brake release over the length of the train with adding power, etc.  The issue is available from Kalmbach for $6.99 &etc. - https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/trn161101 

There are lots of other similar stories from time to time, involving steam and diesel, all over the world.  One of my favorites was by Don Phillips about a Beyer-Garratt recovering after a stall on a sharp curve:

A Garratt stalls on a grade
from Trains January 1977  p. 20

africa  beyergarratt  SAR  steam   

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by timz on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:19 PM

No skill involved in starting a train on level track. Starting a tonnage train on an upgrade is tougher, especially if all the engines are at the front of the train. You have to release the brakes, which takes time, and you don't want to pull hard until all the brakes are released, but you don't want to roll downhill backwards when the brakes do release.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 4:16 PM

There are a lot of variables involved, as one might guess.

Ideally, one wants to be smooth, so as not to break anything (like a knuckle), and not use so much power that the wheels of the locomotives slip, but still get the train moving to the desired speed fairly quickly. 

Are we on an upgrade or a downgrade (or level)?  Is the train bunched or stretched?

In reality, it's not much different than starting out from a stoplight with your car.  Just a lot bigger.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:34 PM

Can't speak for all carriers, mine had Train Handling Rules that goverened how fast a throttle could be advanced - all of those rules were based on getting the entirety of the train moving - once the train was moving it was in the hands of the Engineer (or the 'engineer surrogate' programs of EMD or GE depending on the power on the head end).

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Starting up a train.. is it done by "feel"?
Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:32 PM

Does the engineer move the throttle based on how the train feels to his/her senses or are there precise rules as to when the throttle is advanced  i.e. at 24 mph, 35 mph etc? I've noticed that some engineers open the throttle a notch and then pull back a notch or two as the train begins to move, I'm guessing they're  using slack to their advantage.. train begins to move and then slows a tad, allowing the cars to give the locomotives a bit of a bump.. at that point the engineer once again advances the throttle.. and so on until the train is up to speed. 

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