Trains.com

Being watched

5825 views
36 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 6:47 AM

Boyd
At the pizza restaurant/bar I work at I think some customers purposely sit at tables near the kitchen just to watch us work.

The diner where I eat breakfast when I'm on the railroad is usually entertaining, especially when they're busy and you can be amazed that they're keeping all those orders straight and finishing up at the right times...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: St. Paul, Minnesota
  • 2,116 posts
Posted by Boyd on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 1:16 AM

Almost 30 years ago I bagged groceries at a fancy grocery store. Speed bagging cans by tossing up with right hand and catching the bag with left hand gained me an audience. It was odd looking up to see people watching with glazed stares of amazement. For fun I'd ask a customer if she wanted the eggs on the bottom and the watermelon on top. Women customers would multiple times ask if they could bring me home to help put the groceries away. I was better looking then. 

At the pizza restaurant/bar I work at I think some customers purposely sit at tables near the kitchen just to watch us work. Others came to the bar every day that one very good looking bartender worked as all mal heads turned when she walked by. She was fired last summer.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, November 8, 2016 5:01 PM

schlimm
 
BaltACD
schlimm You do have unions.  Doesn't that offer some protection, say a bit more than the 17-year old working at the local WalMart gets? Union 'representation' only begins to come into play after a person is charged with an offense. 

Beyond the grieving process you describe, I was thinking more of union pressure when negotiating work rules or union lobbyists pressuring Congress and FRA, etc. for government rules.  Your unions don't do that?   They should for all the dues you pay.

They do what they can within the framework that is presently stacked against labor.  However, that is like trying to get your White House Lobbying law firm to step in to handle a dispute over unpaid parking tickets.

Union lobbying and real world railroading take place in different Universe's.

On our property there is a Company/Craft Overlap Safety meeting and process.  Issues that apply to each craft get presented, get discussed and in some cases get resolved through this process.  This is a part of the 'Safety Culture' the company emphasises.  I am currently working on a section of the property that I worked on 35 years ago - at that time, if the Division went a month without a reportable injury it was a relative cause for celebration.  Recently the Division celebrated 1,000,000 man hours injury report free - that is not just 'reportable injury free' - that is INJURY FREE.  Railroaders know what can make an injury, even though minor and not resulting in lost time a REPORTABLE injury.  The Safety Culture has had a quantum shift in the past 35 years.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: outside of London, Ontario
  • 389 posts
Posted by lone geep on Tuesday, November 8, 2016 4:25 PM

CMStPnP

Go buy a ghillie suit and binoculars at Gander Mountain.   The train crews will never spot you.

 

 

That sounds like a great idea except that it would make me even more noticible standing on an overpass and would draw some unwanted attention on the way to the yard. Stick out tongue. Anyways, thanks for the replies, it has put my mind at ease. 

Lone Geep 

 \

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, November 8, 2016 3:53 PM

As a railfan I try to make myself invisible to the railroaders.. It wasn't always that way. When I was a kid I had no problem standing at trackside and waving at oncoming trains like an idiot. But now that feels kinda weird. Time and age have jaded me somewhat.. and I don't want to be a distraction to someone else who is working. A wave could be misinterpreted as a wave for help etc. So i'm the guy behind the tree you don't see.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, November 8, 2016 1:22 PM

BaltACD
schlimm You do have unions.  Doesn't that offer some protection, say a bit more than the 17-year old working at the local WalMart gets? Union 'representation' only begins to come into play after a person is charged with an offense.

Beyond the grieving process you describe, I was thinking more of union pressure when negotiating work rules or union lobbyists pressuring Congress and FRA, etc. for government rules.  Your unions don't do that?   They should for all the dues you pay.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 7, 2016 7:04 PM

schlimm
You do have unions.  Doesn't that offer some protection, say a bit more than the 17-year old working at the local WalMart gets?

Union 'representation' only begins to come into play after a person is charged with an offense.  An offense that the company intends to take to an Investigation (trial).  In taking the proceeding to a Investigation, YOU WILL BE FOUND TO HAVE VIOLATED WHAT THE COMPANY CHARGED YOU FOR, with the 1st level verdict an you will be assessed 'discipline' (depending upon the offense, discipline can be anything from a Formal Repremand to Dismissal from the company with a range of other penalties in between).  Through this procedure you Union Rep will attempt to be your 'defense attorney' (in most cases your Union Rep is a working stiff just like you, whose only TRAINING in Investigations is by attending the ones he has in cases before yours and what he has learned from those experiences).  Your Union Rep will be compensated 'a basic day's pay' for attending your investigation by the Union (your dues at work - and potentially a reason for higher Union dues).

Once Discipline has been assessed your Union Rep will then appeal the results through channels.  1st stop will be the Division level manager that assessed the discipline.  2nd stop will be the company 'Labor Relations' department.  3rd stop will be National Labor Relations Mediation Hearing.

Remember, the orignal Investigation will be scheduled so that AT A MINIMUM you will lose at least one day's pay, since under the Hours of Service Law, one must be FULLY RESTED to participate in your own Investigation, and you cannot return to duty until you are FULLY RESTED at the conclusion of the Investigation.  Even if on the 'snowballs chance in hell' you are not assessed discipline from the investigation you still will have lost one or more days pay in participating.

The 17 YO at Wal-Mart was looking for a job when he got the Minimum Wage Wal-Mart job and besides Burger King is hiring.  Railroad employees have jobs that compensate them so they can raise a family and put their children through college.

There are those in 'management' that think 'It's good to be the King'.  (History of the World Part 2)

 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, November 7, 2016 6:20 PM

schlimm
As I have said before, why do railroaders object so strongly to being watched? Many/most folks are seen by the public and/or bosses quite often as a part of their job. Why is it so objectionable for you folks?

Perhaps the story of a rogue railfan is appropriate.

I don't know if there was animosity between the parties involved, but a railfan posted a photo on line of a conductor that got the latter in trouble with his boss. The fan was promptly ostracized and banned from that forum. Not sure what happened to the conductor, but I'm sure he now has a reason he does not want to be photographed.

Norm


  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 7, 2016 5:25 PM

schlimm
As I have said before, why do railroaders object so strongly to being watched? Many/most folks are seen by the public and/or bosses quite often as a part of their job. Why is it so objectionable for you folks?

It also doesn't have to do with being a RRer.  I hate being watched when I do stuff. Just leave me alone to do my job.  I know, that's not possible, but it's how I feel.   Like when a RFE stands over my control stand.  Drives me nuts.  Sit down over there.  If I do something wrong, you'll feel it.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Monday, November 7, 2016 5:19 PM

You do have unions.  Doesn't that offer some protection, say a bit more than the 17-year old working at the local WalMart gets?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 7, 2016 5:07 PM

schlimm
 
BaltACD 
jeffhergert
If you work for a railroad, especially a class 1, you can expect that when working in yards or terminals that you are being watched.  The ones with the cameras/railfans are the least of the worries.

Jeff

And you can add the FRA and State Inspectors to the category of company weed weasels. 

As I have said before, why do railroaders object so strongly to being watched?  Many/most folks are seen by the public and/or bosses quite often as a part of their job.  Why is it so objectionable for you folks?

Go through all the rules in the Book of Operating Rules, The Train Handling Rules, The Air Brake Rules, The Radio Rules and The Safety Rules and figure that the weed weasels have the power to observe you breaking ANY of those rules (some of which are almost mutually exclusive - if you observe one you break another).  Outsiders have no idea of the pressure that all organizations place on FAILED efficiency tests.

How long does a 'highway cop' remain employeed if he doesn't write tickets?  Every organization that observes rail operations has but one goal in mind - FIND A FAILURE.  A Trainmaster or Road Foreman can't submit their monthly E-tests without having 'some failures'.  State and Federal inspectors can't go on a rail property and submit their activity reports without having 'some failures'.  If inspectors don't find failures they don't keep their jobs very long.

Rail employees may have been born at night, however it wasn't last night and they know the presence of these 'dings' against their record can affect their continuing future employment.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Monday, November 7, 2016 4:56 PM

schlimm

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
jeffhergert
If you work for a railroad, especially a class 1, you can expect that when working in yards or terminals that you are being watched.  The ones with the cameras/railfans are the least of the worries.

Jeff

 

And you can add the FRA and State Inspectors to the category of company weed weasels.

 

 

 

As I have said before, why do railroaders object so strongly to being watched?  Many/most folks are seen by the public and/or bosses quite often as a part of their job.  Why is it so objectionable for you folks?

 

How many people deal with people watching them from the weeds? And then nitpicking you on rules they barely understand because you were trying to actually do your job? 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 9,610 posts
Posted by schlimm on Monday, November 7, 2016 4:52 PM

BaltACD

 

 
jeffhergert
If you work for a railroad, especially a class 1, you can expect that when working in yards or terminals that you are being watched.  The ones with the cameras/railfans are the least of the worries.

Jeff

 

And you can add the FRA and State Inspectors to the category of company weed weasels.

 

As I have said before, why do railroaders object so strongly to being watched?  Many/most folks are seen by the public and/or bosses quite often as a part of their job.  Why is it so objectionable for you folks?

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 7, 2016 4:47 PM

jeffhergert
If you work for a railroad, especially a class 1, you can expect that when working in yards or terminals that you are being watched.  The ones with the cameras/railfans are the least of the worries.

Jeff

And you can add the FRA and State Inspectors to the category of company weed weasels.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,901 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, November 7, 2016 3:54 PM

If you work for a railroad, especially a class 1, you can expect that when working in yards or terminals that you are being watched.  The ones with the cameras/railfans are the least of the worries.

Jeff

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Monday, November 7, 2016 11:51 AM

54light15

Do you think the Ghillie (if that is what that was above Oscar) was the inspiration for Wookies?

Nope.
 
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,021 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, November 7, 2016 11:21 AM

Murphy Siding
You should see the line outside my office...

We had a secretary in one office I worked in who didn't rest her fingers on the "home row" of the typewriter - she held her hands above the keyboard.  For those of us who learned the "regular way" to type, it was a wonder to behold...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,560 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, November 6, 2016 9:28 PM

Wanswheel, thanks so much for posting that. I was a little too old for Sesame Street when it first came out. I see now what I missed. Funny as hell!

Do you think the Ghillie (if that is what that was above Oscar) was the inspiration for Wookies?

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, November 6, 2016 3:55 PM

daveklepper

Age 15-17, 1947-1949, Spuyten Dyvil, junction of the Hudson lines to GCT and West Side, Herman Rinke the operator.

 

Wow David, now THAT must have been an exciting place to visit!  Non-stop action all day long, I'll bet.

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,096 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 6, 2016 1:14 PM

Age 15-17, 1947-1949, Spuyten Dyvil, junction of the Hudson lines to GCT and West Side, Herman Rinke the operator.

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Sunday, November 6, 2016 1:07 PM

CShaveRR

I was proud to show off what I did, and would invite people up into the tower... figured that if they got past security, it was worth it for them to get a good show.

 

During my high school years, I was fortunate to have access to the Tower at a major railroad yard in Memphis.   Carl, you're right, that was the place to see some serious railroad activity. 

   There is no way, these days to even get close; let alone, an invite, to just watch. It is a different world we live in these days. Sigh

 

 


 

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Sunday, November 6, 2016 12:58 PM

Never bother me at all....as long as they stayed off property.

The few times they didn't, depending on how they act, we either politely guide them where they belong, or have our gumshoes take care of them...for the most part, never had a problem.

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, November 5, 2016 10:44 PM

I was proud to show off what I did, and would invite people up into the tower... figured that if they got past security, it was worth it for them to get a good show.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, November 5, 2016 10:28 PM

tree68

Virtually every industry that works where the public can see it has its fans.  Some in said industries embrace that, some can't see why anyone would be interested in what they do.

 

No kidding!  You should see the line outside my office of onlookers trying to get a rare glimpse of me actually working at my desk and not just madly looking for misplaced paperwork. 

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 5, 2016 8:44 PM

Big Foot - the undefeated World Champion of Hide and Seek.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, November 5, 2016 8:18 PM

AIEE! It's Bigfoot!!SurpriseSurprise

Johnny

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Saturday, November 5, 2016 7:54 PM

 

  • Member since
    August 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,955 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, November 5, 2016 6:43 PM

Deggesty

Very, very similar Johnny.  The term as we know it today goes back to World War One when British snipers adopted a camoflage suit adapted from what the Scottish gamekeepers, or "ghillies," wore.  The term found it's way into US Army and Marine Corps sniper usage not long afterward, and now it's found it's way into hunting terminology.

There's some film footage of World War One snipers moving into position (certainly staged for the camera) and the ghillie suits they wore 100 years ago are amazingly similar to what's used now.

 

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Saturday, November 5, 2016 6:38 PM

If the crew is in the cab, you generally can't see them anyway.  I watch the train...not the crew per se.  Unless it is MOW and then I watch what they are doing, not how they perform.  

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy