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NIMBYism article

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, October 3, 2016 7:27 PM

NKP guy

   It's interesting to observe that to many posters here when it comes to NIMBYism the ordinary man is always a dolt, but when it comes to firearms the ordinary man is wise and capable.

 

 

I would not consider a NIMBY to be an "ordinary person." Ordinary persons are better able, and willing, to think things through and accept reality.

Johnny

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 3, 2016 6:18 PM

schlimm
But it is hardly in the same league as oil pipelines, which seem to leak fairly often.

Do they leak more often, or is it just more media coverage when they do?  There have been some pretty spectacular NG leaks.

Those who would like to see crude and coal cease to be energy sources tend to favor natural gas.  So of course it is in their best interests to "promote" issues with oil.  

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Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, October 3, 2016 6:07 PM

NKP guy

   It's interesting to observe that to many posters here when it comes to NIMBYism the ordinary man is always a dolt, but when it comes to firearms the ordinary man is wise and capable.

Let's not go there again. If we do, this thread is likely to be locked too.

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Posted by NKP guy on Monday, October 3, 2016 6:04 PM

   It's interesting to observe that to many posters here when it comes to NIMBYism the ordinary man is always a dolt, but when it comes to firearms the ordinary man is wise and capable.

 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, October 3, 2016 5:58 PM

schlimm

Do you live in that office (do you own it?)?  I did say your yard or next door, which strongly implies your home.

 

You got me there. It only seems like I live there.

      There is a gasoline pipeline running within a half mile of my house. Also, an interstate highway and a rail line within a half mile of my house.  There are a lot of things more dangerous than crude oil being moved within a half mile of my house, and I live in the flight path of a fairly busy airport, so there's dangerous stuff flying over my head as well.

      I know you'll say that it's not right next door, but I wonder if you underestimate how much open space there really is on the prairies. Does "right next door" on the indian reservation in question involve feet, miles, or dozens of miles?  The pipeline that was recently installed south of my office goes through open corn and bean fields.  I'd say 95% of the farmhouse in the area are at least 1/4 mile away from the pipeline. The reservations tend to be fairly sparsly populated outside of the agency housing areas.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by lidgerwoodplow on Monday, October 3, 2016 4:54 PM

dakotafred

 

 
zardoz
 
Phoebe Vet

Americans are very selfish.  "The heck with you; I've got mine."

Propose anything anywhere and watch the people rise up against it.

They don't want housing developments, bigger roads, cell phone towers, shopping centers, factories, recreational facilities, Apartment buildings, ANYTHING that people drive to, etc.

 

 

 

And yet those hypocrites have no problem USING all of the conveniences and products that are provided by those facilities. 

 

 

 

 

Their imaginations being too small to get their arms around the big picture. A case in point: the Dakota Access Pipeline, stalled by the Standing Rock Sioux on the most bogus of grounds.

In a couple of months, these same people will be crying for #2 diesel (heating) oil and propane, another oil product, to be provided by somebody else.

The main problem is that the country filled up, by our standards, a long time ago; they "closed the frontier." Now you can't turn around without "impacting" somebody else.

This is how decay sets in, as it has with us. 

 

 Better they should cry for #1.  Here in South Dakota #2 tends to coagulate at below-zero temperatures.  Maybe they've got heated oil tanks?

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Posted by Norm48327 on Monday, October 3, 2016 4:38 PM

The folks planning Denver International did it right. Airport property is 52 square miles. No nimbys going to be building close to the airport for some time.

Norm


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Posted by cefinkjr on Monday, October 3, 2016 3:59 PM

A classic case of delayed NIMBYism took place in the Pittsburgh, PA area a number of years ago.  The Allegheny County Airport simply could not be expanded to handle the then new jet aircraft; private property had been developed all around the airport.

So the powers that be found undeveloped space 45 minutes west of downtown for what is now Greater Pittsburgh International Airport.  This space was really too hilly for an airport but there just isn't any other kind around Pittsburgh.  It's chief advantage was that there were only a very few homes in the area to be bothered by noise.

By the time the airport opened, there were residential developments close by with homes being sold because of the easy access to the airport.  And about a year later those same home buyers started complaining about the noise.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, October 3, 2016 3:50 PM

schlimm
BTW, there is a natural gas pipline (not local) about a block from my home. But it is hardly in the same league as oil pipelines, which seem to leak fairly often.

Pipeline incidents investigated by the NTSB

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/pipeline.aspx

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, October 3, 2016 3:40 PM

Dave

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, October 3, 2016 3:17 PM

BTW, there is a natural gas pipline (not local) about a block from my home. But it is hardly in the same league as oil pipelines, which seem to leak fairly often.

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, October 3, 2016 3:14 PM

Do you live in that office (do you own it?)?  I did say your yard or next door, which strongly implies your home.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, October 3, 2016 2:56 PM

schlimm

   And how would you like a pipeline running through your yard or next door?

 

There's a 36" natural gas line 150 feet from my office window.  There's a huge set of power lines 100 feet from my office window. The Dakota Access Pipeline (crude oil) is being put in 2-1/2 miles south of my office. Since I need and want natural gas, electricity and gasoline, I feel this is the price of progress.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, October 3, 2016 12:45 PM

I live in the Central IL Natural gas Storage area.  During the summer the local gas company is pumping it into the underground storage areas.  During the winter they pump it out.  They store an estimated 25 Trillion cubic feet of pressurized natural gas in a 15 square mile area in this area.  Those that have lived here long enough say if it all went boom we would be the first town on the moon. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 3, 2016 12:17 PM

schlimm
And how would you like a pipeline running through your yard or next door?

The area where I lived in MI was crisscrossed with pipelines.  I don't ever recall a problem.  

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, October 3, 2016 12:08 PM

Not quite next door but I did grow up with a products pipeline running parallel to an arterial street one block north of our house.  Not an issue to anybody.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by schlimm on Monday, October 3, 2016 10:57 AM

dakotafred
You need to be on the ground for this one. It's a power play by a lot of people with too much time on their hands (and an inclination to stick it to Whitey).

More like corporations sticking it to the Native Americans.  And how would you like a pipeline running through your yard or next door?

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, October 3, 2016 7:11 AM

betamax
Many times the tower deliberately isn't commissioned and put into service for several months,...

I've been watching a cell tower go up along my commute to the railroad.  Right now the tower is complete and the antennae are installed - but there is no coax running up to tower to feed the antennae.  I noticed that - John Q. Public probably wouldn't.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Monday, October 3, 2016 7:01 AM

My boss went thru the same thing 4 years ago.  He wanted to convert an old warehouse that he already owned trucks he owned where already going down the streets also to his new 20 million dollar terminal.  Well a bunch of idiots in the city got their knickers in a bunch and protested his plans.  Now he was doing this with zero TIF or property tax breaks for the buildings meaning more money for the local schools also.  The NIMBY's started screaming the trucks will ruin our neighborhood to their friends and well he said screw it I will just use part of the land I own now at my current terminal in the country. 

 

Bottom line was a city and school district that needed the tax revenue his new terminal would have brought in lost out of an estimated 800 grand a year in property taxes.   Our employees lost a shorter commute as we are 9 miles outside the city limits. 

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Posted by betamax on Monday, October 3, 2016 4:35 AM

When a cell phone tower (or anything like it) is constructed, as soon as it is finished the complaints start coming.  The tower is responsible for every ache, pain and illness they have.  If it wasn't there, they wouldn't be sick.

Many times the tower deliberately isn't commissioned and put into service for several months, so all these illnesses are not caused by the operation of the tower, but the knowledge it is there. Proving that some people will blame anything for everything with no proof or understanding of the issue.

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Posted by SALfan on Monday, October 3, 2016 12:07 AM

BaltACD

 

 
SALfan
My favorites are the ones who are violently opposed to a new cell tower going in - while yammering endlessly on their cell phones about inconsequential crap.

 

and/or complaining about poor cell reception in their area.....

 

Very true.  I forgot that part.

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Posted by SALfan on Monday, October 3, 2016 12:00 AM

Very true - I forgot that part.

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Posted by alphas on Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:54 PM

If I remember it right, the Souix did nothing for 3 years despite repeated requests for them to give an opinion.    It wasn't until the project was started and got to this point that they suddenly developed an interest.   That's why the judge basically said it was too late for them to raise some of the objections they now are.    Also, I read in a comment from someone on an another website who claims to be familar with the area [but I can't locate it now] that the pipeline building in that area is in an existing electric utility eassement that already has another pipeline on it.   Maybe someone from that area could verify if that information is correct?

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, October 2, 2016 11:41 AM

Yeah, and your next-door neighbor is "very close" to you. What rights does that give him on your property -- and vice versa?

All of us leave stones and other litter in our wake. What rights do they confer 150 years later? And are they "sacred"? Why? Because it's we who dropped them instead of somebody else?

State Historical Society archaeologists -- not exactly gung-ho developers -- have examined the route and found none of the burials that the Indians have claimed. Animal teeth and bones -- no humans.

Alleged danger to drinking water is a bad joke. The only Standing Rock Indians drinking out of the Missouri live in the small agency (government) town of Ft. Yates. Everybody else on the huge reservation -- it sprawls over two states -- drinks out of a well.

You need to be on the ground for this one. It's a power play by a lot of people with too much time on their hands (and an inclination to stick it to Whitey).

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, September 30, 2016 5:06 PM

dakotafred
This is how decay sets in, as it has with us.          And yet people like you oppose the right of eminent domain for public projects such as roads or parks.   Huh? Where? When? The only "eminent domain" I oppose -- altho I can't recall ever doing it here -- is the newfangled taking of private property, blessed by the U.S. Supreme Court and (I'll say it) Donald Trump, for "economic development" by private interests (that just happens to plump up the tax collections of the local subdivisions of government). 

So how is this different from the latter?  AFAIK, the RoW for the Dakota Access Pipeline runs very close to Native American territory (Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's reservation).

"The tribe filed court papers saying it found several sites of "significant cultural and historic value" along the path of the proposed pipeline. "Tribal preservation officer Tim Mentz said in court documents that the tribe was only recently allowed to survey private land north of the Standing Rock Sioux reservation. Mentz said researchers found burials rock piles called cairns and other sites of historic significance to Native Americans."

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Posted by dakotafred on Friday, September 30, 2016 12:06 PM

schlimm
 
dakotafred

 

 
zardoz
 
Phoebe Vet

Americans are very selfish.  "The heck with you; I've got mine."

Propose anything anywhere and watch the people rise up against it.

They don't want housing developments, bigger roads, cell phone towers, shopping centers, factories, recreational facilities, Apartment buildings, ANYTHING that people drive to, etc.

 

 

 

And yet those hypocrites have no problem USING all of the conveniences and products that are provided by those facilities. 

 

 

 

 

Their imaginations being too small to get their arms around the big picture. A case in point: the Dakota Access Pipeline, stalled by the Standing Rock Sioux on the most bogus of grounds.

In a couple of months, these same people will be crying for #2 diesel (heating) oil and propane, another oil product, to be provided by somebody else.

The main problem is that the country filled up, by our standards, a long time ago; they "closed the frontier." Now you can't turn around without "impacting" somebody else.

This is how decay sets in, as it has with us. 

 

 

 

And yet people like you oppose the right of eminent domain for public projects such as roads or parks.

 

Huh? Where? When?

The only "eminent domain" I oppose -- altho I can't recall ever doing it here -- is the newfangled taking of private property, blessed by the U.S. Supreme Court and (I'll say it) Donald Trump, for "economic development" by private interests (that just happens to plump up the tax collections of the local subdivisions of government). 

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Posted by BOB WITHORN on Friday, September 30, 2016 6:41 AM
This country has moved so far away from rural living to huge urbal centers where a large number of citizens never leave the city. They travel, by airplane or train, but they have no clue how they get the products and services they consume. Go to a restaurant, it's got food, go to the supermkt., it's got food. More importantly, go to the Apple or Verizon store, they've NEW phones, etc. Too many city dwellers spend their lives in a bubble, ride the 'trolley' - take a taxi - etc. Schools stopped teaching reality long ago. They take the kids to the petting zoo ride the cute little train (Thomas or something on rubber tires) and "poof" they're experts.
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, September 29, 2016 10:16 PM

SALfan
My favorites are the ones who are violently opposed to a new cell tower going in - while yammering endlessly on their cell phones about inconsequential crap.

and/or complaining about poor cell reception in their area.....

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Posted by SALfan on Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:56 PM

My favorites are the ones who are violently opposed to a new cell tower going in - while yammering endlessly on their cell phones about inconsequential crap.

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, September 29, 2016 9:40 PM

dakotafred

 

 
zardoz
 
Phoebe Vet

Americans are very selfish.  "The heck with you; I've got mine."

Propose anything anywhere and watch the people rise up against it.

They don't want housing developments, bigger roads, cell phone towers, shopping centers, factories, recreational facilities, Apartment buildings, ANYTHING that people drive to, etc.

 

 

 

And yet those hypocrites have no problem USING all of the conveniences and products that are provided by those facilities. 

 

 

 

 

Their imaginations being too small to get their arms around the big picture. A case in point: the Dakota Access Pipeline, stalled by the Standing Rock Sioux on the most bogus of grounds.

In a couple of months, these same people will be crying for #2 diesel (heating) oil and propane, another oil product, to be provided by somebody else.

The main problem is that the country filled up, by our standards, a long time ago; they "closed the frontier." Now you can't turn around without "impacting" somebody else.

This is how decay sets in, as it has with us. 

 

And yet people like you oppose the right of eminent domain for public projects such as roads or parks.

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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