Allentown PA Marathon Interrupted by NS Traffic Move

[BaltACD]

Euclid

rdamon

But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break?

For that reason and others, there is no way to adjust the race for the delay imposed on some of the runners midway through the race.  If they tried to make such an adjustment, both sides would dispute the results.  The only solution would be to run the race over again. 

I'll bet the circumstances were a stong motive for runners to try to beat the train.  It would be interesting if there were more video of the whole episode including the alleged cases of runners climbing over and under the moving train.

Are we being lead to believe that ALL runners that made it ahead of the train had times that qualified them for entry to the Boston Marathon and ALL those blocked by the train didn't have good enough times?  How many Kenyan's were participating?

[Euclid]

rdamon

But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break?

 

For that reason and others, there is no way to adjust the race for the delay imposed on some of the runners midway through the race.  If they tried to make such an adjustment, both sides would dispute the results.  The only solution would be to run the race over again. 

I'll bet the circumstances were a stong motive for runners to try to beat the train.  It would be interesting if there were more video of the whole episode including the alleged cases of runners climbing over and under the moving train. 

[rdamon]

But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break?

[Deggesty]

zugmann

 

 

Murphy Siding

What's a chip mat?

 

 

 

http://www.marathonguide.com/features/Articles/RaceTimingWithChip.cfm

 

Aha! a chip mat at such a place would record the time each runner reached it and the time each runner was able to leave it. Would the Bostonians accept such?

[zugmann]

Murphy Siding

What's a chip mat?

 

http://www.marathonguide.com/features/Articles/RaceTimingWithChip.cfm

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

IE just destroyed my post (not the Trains Forum this time), so here's the short version):

• Having official there is the only way to be sure.
• Adjusting times was attempted, but not accepted by Boston Marathon.  Besides - how much to deduct when the runners arrived at the crossing at different times, but all finally got across together ? 
• CP Ham, I think - may be at or still within Allentown Yard Limits, so Yardmaster controls the track, not DS.
• Crossing is E. Walnut St. and S. Albert St., which is the secondary route into the west end of the Yard.  Race would be on that route for about 1/2 mi. until it diverged onto the old canal's towpath trail.  So some NS personnel probably saw the preparations for the race in the course of their travels.  Maybe elsewhere in the vicinity, too, because the Yard's control tower is only about 1-1/2 mi. east.

- Paul North.

[Murphy Siding]

zugmann

 

 

mudchicken

The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.

 

 

News sources I read said they contacted the railroad beforehand (like was done the previous 9 years).   Seems someone didn't get the memo.  Stuff happens - looks like this was at CP-Ham, which is the line north out of Allentown yard.  In hindsight, the race organizers should have probably put chip mats on either side of the crossing to cover their bases.  From skimming some online racing forusm - seems there's a lot of controversy and drama surrounding that entire allentown race. 

 

What's a chip mat?

[tree68]

"My Uncle Fred said they'd hold the trains during the race.  He works for the railroad..."

I know, I'm being facetious, but stranger things have been known to happen.  

As Balt alludes, the fault would seem to lie wherever the communications breakdown occurred - perhaps at dispatch, perhaps at a higher level in the organization.

Where is the NS dispatcher for that area located?

[Euclid]

BaltACD

If NS was in fact notified through proper channels, failure to protect for the race ultimately falls upon the Dispatchers office and the trick dispatcher for the territory.

What if NS was not notified through proper channels, but received assurances from NS that they would hold trains for the race?  Then where would the responsibility fall?

[BaltACD]

Train Dispatcher either didn't get notice of the race and the particulars of holding traffic or didn't read and implement the protection required for the race.

If NS was in fact notified through proper channels, failure to protect for the race ultimately falls upon the Dispatchers office and the trick dispatcher for the territory.

My carrier will 'generally' dispatch a company official to be an on site contact for these events.

[Euclid]

schlimm

LINK

"Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years.

What happened Sunday underscores the importance of race organizers speaking to the right people at Norfolk Southern to ensure everyone is on the same page, Pidgeon [NS spokesman] said."

 

If the race officials did get absolute assurances from NS, I don’t see how there can be an issue about them not speaking to the right people. 

 

[schlimm]

zugmann

 

mudchicken

The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.

 

 

News sources I read said they contacted the railroad beforehand (like was done the previous 9 years).   Seems someone didn't get the memo.  Stuff happens - looks like this was at CP-Ham, which is the line north out of Allentown yard.  In hindsight, the race organizers should have probably put chip mats on either side of the crossing to cover their bases.  From skimming some online racing forusm - seems there's a lot of controversy and drama surrounding that entire allentown race. 

 

Exactly.      LINK

Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years. A meeting was held and many e-mails were exchanged on runner safety and race logistics prior to the run.

"This is the tenth anniversary of this race, and all 10 races have crossed the Norfolk Southern rail tracks on Albert Street to enter Canal Park in Allentown," said Gerry Yasso, Via's vice president of development.

What happened Sunday underscores the importance of race organizers speaking to the right people at Norfolk Southern to ensure everyone is on the same page, Pidgeon said.

"We are actively looking into who said what to whom, related to this incident," he said.

He urged race and other event organizers to reach out to the railway's office of public relations for future events to help navigate the company's hierarchy.

"We can help coordinate and get them in touch with all the right people," Pidgeon said. "From a safety standpoint it is just vital that event organizers for races like this be on the same page."

Norfolk Southern operates in 22 states and is reviewing its event policy given the fall is peak marathon and country fair season, he said.

[zugmann]

mudchicken

The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.

News sources I read said they contacted the railroad beforehand (like was done the previous 9 years).   Seems someone didn't get the memo.  Stuff happens - looks like this was at CP-Ham, which is the line north out of Allentown yard.  In hindsight, the race organizers should have probably put chip mats on either side of the crossing to cover their bases.  From skimming some online racing forusm - seems there's a lot of controversy and drama surrounding that entire allentown race. 

[mudchicken]

The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so. 

[Norm48327]

One phone call could have prevented a disaster in Midland, Texas a few years ago.

[BaltACD]

tree68

One phone call...

In large organizations such as NS, where that 'one phone call' needs to go can be difficult to nearly impossible for an outside party to determine. 

My carrier truly endeavors to provide these kinds of events the operation protection they require - but such protection can't be provided if the carrier doesn't know about it.  Changes in event management's organization frequently place the 'unknowing' in positions that are to request protection - because they don't know, they don't ask and strange things happen.

I have no idea what happened in this incident.

[Murphy Siding]

     Our city had a marathon last Sunday morning.  I wondered if they had spoken to BNSF since their route crossed the track 3 or 4 times.  They also routed it through a fair amount of residentail streets including in front of my house and down the side of my yard. A dozen very enthusiastic teenagers with a drum and several other musical instruments would make a lot of noise for every runner that came by- all 400 of them, from 7:30 to 10:30 Sunday morning. Oof! 

[Deggesty]

tree68

One phone call...

 

But who thinks about the possibility that a train would come along; no, who thinks about trains, anyway?

Why, in calculating the time of each runner, was not the interruption caused by the train's passage not taken into account?

[CShaveRR]

What Tree said...

[tree68]

One phone call...

[Eddie Sand]

A major marathon held in Allentown on September 11 was seriously disrupted when a Norfolk Southern freight crew unwittingly blocked the race's route for almost ten minutes. According to local reports, the incident took place at a point where the race's course leaves city steets, crosses the trackage, and continues on a path parallel to the former Delaware and Lehigh Canal.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/current-events/2645280-dreams-boston-marathon-vanish-some-runners.html

It's not clear from available maps whether the trackage involved was the NS Lehigh Line (no more than ten moves per day -- and fewer on wekends), or the much more heavily-used Reading Line (about 30 moves, with the heaviest activity on Fri-Sat). The event reportedly has run for about ten years (until now) without incident, but "What we had was a failure to communicate". The race promoters had been given to understand that a three-hour window (7AM-10AM) had been agreed to, but this would seem unlikely if the more-heavily-trafficked Reading Line was involved.

Little further information has come to light since the original report of the incident, but it's worth noting that running enthusiasts view the event as a prime opportunity to qualify for the prestigious Boston Marathon, and several saw their efforts go for naught.