A major marathon held in Allentown on September 11 was seriously disrupted when a Norfolk Southern freight crew unwittingly blocked the race's route for almost ten minutes. According to local reports, the incident took place at a point where the race's course leaves city steets, crosses the trackage, and continues on a path parallel to the former Delaware and Lehigh Canal.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/current-events/2645280-dreams-boston-marathon-vanish-some-runners.html
It's not clear from available maps whether the trackage involved was the NS Lehigh Line (no more than ten moves per day -- and fewer on wekends), or the much more heavily-used Reading Line (about 30 moves, with the heaviest activity on Fri-Sat). The event reportedly has run for about ten years (until now) without incident, but "What we had was a failure to communicate". The race promoters had been given to understand that a three-hour window (7AM-10AM) had been agreed to, but this would seem unlikely if the more-heavily-trafficked Reading Line was involved.
Little further information has come to light since the original report of the incident, but it's worth noting that running enthusiasts view the event as a prime opportunity to qualify for the prestigious Boston Marathon, and several saw their efforts go for naught.
One phone call...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
What Tree said...
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
tree68 One phone call...
Why, in calculating the time of each runner, was not the interruption caused by the train's passage not taken into account?
Johnny
Our city had a marathon last Sunday morning. I wondered if they had spoken to BNSF since their route crossed the track 3 or 4 times. They also routed it through a fair amount of residentail streets including in front of my house and down the side of my yard. A dozen very enthusiastic teenagers with a drum and several other musical instruments would make a lot of noise for every runner that came by- all 400 of them, from 7:30 to 10:30 Sunday morning. Oof!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
In large organizations such as NS, where that 'one phone call' needs to go can be difficult to nearly impossible for an outside party to determine.
My carrier truly endeavors to provide these kinds of events the operation protection they require - but such protection can't be provided if the carrier doesn't know about it. Changes in event management's organization frequently place the 'unknowing' in positions that are to request protection - because they don't know, they don't ask and strange things happen.
I have no idea what happened in this incident.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One phone call could have prevented a disaster in Midland, Texas a few years ago.
Norm
The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.
mudchickenThe event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.
News sources I read said they contacted the railroad beforehand (like was done the previous 9 years). Seems someone didn't get the memo. Stuff happens - looks like this was at CP-Ham, which is the line north out of Allentown yard. In hindsight, the race organizers should have probably put chip mats on either side of the crossing to cover their bases. From skimming some online racing forusm - seems there's a lot of controversy and drama surrounding that entire allentown race.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann mudchicken The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so. News sources I read said they contacted the railroad beforehand (like was done the previous 9 years). Seems someone didn't get the memo. Stuff happens - looks like this was at CP-Ham, which is the line north out of Allentown yard. In hindsight, the race organizers should have probably put chip mats on either side of the crossing to cover their bases. From skimming some online racing forusm - seems there's a lot of controversy and drama surrounding that entire allentown race.
mudchicken The event operating committee has some 'splainin' to do. Calling the railroad at the last minute and expecting an instant accomodation is just a little out of whack. Saw several news groups trying to put the blame on the railroad. Not so.
Exactly. LINK
Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years. A meeting was held and many e-mails were exchanged on runner safety and race logistics prior to the run.
"This is the tenth anniversary of this race, and all 10 races have crossed the Norfolk Southern rail tracks on Albert Street to enter Canal Park in Allentown," said Gerry Yasso, Via's vice president of development.
What happened Sunday underscores the importance of race organizers speaking to the right people at Norfolk Southern to ensure everyone is on the same page, Pidgeon said.
"We are actively looking into who said what to whom, related to this incident," he said.
He urged race and other event organizers to reach out to the railway's office of public relations for future events to help navigate the company's hierarchy.
"We can help coordinate and get them in touch with all the right people," Pidgeon said. "From a safety standpoint it is just vital that event organizers for races like this be on the same page."
Norfolk Southern operates in 22 states and is reviewing its event policy given the fall is peak marathon and country fair season, he said.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm LINK "Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years. What happened Sunday underscores the importance of race organizers speaking to the right people at Norfolk Southern to ensure everyone is on the same page, Pidgeon [NS spokesman] said."
"Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years.
What happened Sunday underscores the importance of race organizers speaking to the right people at Norfolk Southern to ensure everyone is on the same page, Pidgeon [NS spokesman] said."
If the race officials did get absolute assurances from NS, I don’t see how there can be an issue about them not speaking to the right people.
Train Dispatcher either didn't get notice of the race and the particulars of holding traffic or didn't read and implement the protection required for the race.
If NS was in fact notified through proper channels, failure to protect for the race ultimately falls upon the Dispatchers office and the trick dispatcher for the territory.
My carrier will 'generally' dispatch a company official to be an on site contact for these events.
BaltACDIf NS was in fact notified through proper channels, failure to protect for the race ultimately falls upon the Dispatchers office and the trick dispatcher for the territory.
What if NS was not notified through proper channels, but received assurances from NS that they would hold trains for the race? Then where would the responsibility fall?
"My Uncle Fred said they'd hold the trains during the race. He works for the railroad..."
I know, I'm being facetious, but stranger things have been known to happen.
As Balt alludes, the fault would seem to lie wherever the communications breakdown occurred - perhaps at dispatch, perhaps at a higher level in the organization.
Where is the NS dispatcher for that area located?
IE just destroyed my post (not the Trains Forum this time), so here's the short version):
- Paul North.
Murphy Siding What's a chip mat?
http://www.marathonguide.com/features/Articles/RaceTimingWithChip.cfm
zugmann Murphy Siding What's a chip mat? http://www.marathonguide.com/features/Articles/RaceTimingWithChip.cfm
But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break?
rdamon But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break?
For that reason and others, there is no way to adjust the race for the delay imposed on some of the runners midway through the race. If they tried to make such an adjustment, both sides would dispute the results. The only solution would be to run the race over again.
I'll bet the circumstances were a stong motive for runners to try to beat the train. It would be interesting if there were more video of the whole episode including the alleged cases of runners climbing over and under the moving train.
Euclid rdamon But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break? For that reason and others, there is no way to adjust the race for the delay imposed on some of the runners midway through the race. If they tried to make such an adjustment, both sides would dispute the results. The only solution would be to run the race over again. I'll bet the circumstances were a stong motive for runners to try to beat the train. It would be interesting if there were more video of the whole episode including the alleged cases of runners climbing over and under the moving train.
Are we being lead to believe that ALL runners that made it ahead of the train had times that qualified them for entry to the Boston Marathon and ALL those blocked by the train didn't have good enough times? How many Kenyan's were participating?
BaltACD Euclid rdamon But how do you compare times with runners who have had a 10 min rest break? For that reason and others, there is no way to adjust the race for the delay imposed on some of the runners midway through the race. If they tried to make such an adjustment, both sides would dispute the results. The only solution would be to run the race over again. I'll bet the circumstances were a stong motive for runners to try to beat the train. It would be interesting if there were more video of the whole episode including the alleged cases of runners climbing over and under the moving train. Are we being lead to believe that ALL runners that made it ahead of the train had times that qualified them for entry to the Boston Marathon and ALL those blocked by the train didn't have good enough times? How many Kenyan's were participating?
You are not being lead to believe that by me. I would conclude that any runners that were delayed by the train, and did not have qualifying times have a case that the contest was unfair.
EuclidYou are not being [led] to believe that by me. I would conclude that any runners that were delayed by the train, and did not have qualifying times have a case that the contest was unfair.
It is perhaps typical that no one has researched the actual range of overall time that was affected by the stoppage. Quicker runners, and slower runners, would be little affected by this. The primary issue for purposes of the Boston Marathon would appear to be whether times in the 'window' were critical for making the qualifying cut. And absent mentioning what the criteria in question are, or whether the delay did in fact 'make the difference' for some of the affected people, there is little particularly reasonable basis for speculating.
Yes, it was a problem for many of the runners in the event, particularly if they (like me) are badly affected by an enforced stop in the middle of a distance run. If they are keeping a log of best times, here is a wasted one, and at the very least they should be entitled to a return of any fees they paid and, perhaps, costs they incurred getting to and parking at the event. I do not get the impression that the delay resulted in any loss of points or prize money -- please correct me if that is not the case.
Perhaps the 'fair' thing would be for Boston to admit any 'borderline' underqualifications if the window corresponded to the cutoff time range. Might even be fair to figure out on some pro-rata basis what a given runner's estimated finishing time, net of all pace and finish efforts, would have been ... if anyone were recording the arrival times at the blockage. Bet that didn't happen reliably!
mudchickenAEI detector for humans? hmmmm.....
Very common in such races. One was in use here for a local triathlon.
One might surmise that the key fobs and cards used to unlock doors would be very similar...
tree68One might surmise that the key fobs and cards used to unlock doors would be very similar...
They are very often not. But some of the EZ-Pass systems are.
The ChampionChip system uses a passive transponder - the chip is actually powered up when it crosses the special 'mat', and then does the necessary handshaking for data transfer. There are no batteries in the chip carrier itself (which is normally tied specially into a runner's shoelaces in a way that would make it difficult to switch it from one runner to another easily). Note that for this application a very short range is desirable, as is rapid shutoff when away from the actual timing antenna.
Normally a keyfob has a radio transmitter inside, with a desired long range, and it is sensitive to battery condition. There are circuits that can be used to 'ping' an active transmitter (a good historical example is in pagers) but there's a lot more circuitry and expense involved in such a thing, and checking batteries, connectivity, etc. each race, and making the devices immune to shock, weather, etc. is not only more difficult but less tolerant of some more sneaky kinds of 'abuse'.
Most of the existing door card access systems that would come to mind will probably use different technology, probably involving some form of scanning inside a slot or pad in the door that requires alignment.
Note that there are approaches out there, like some of the old 'digital wallet' ideas, where devices could energize and read cards or chips 'without your having to take them out of your pocket'. I have never considered these either prudent or safe, although there are certainly areas -- the Exxon Speedpass is an example of one -- where getting a token of some kind reasonably close to a device can share data with it. Note, however, that Speedpass is only a discount and 'points' program, NOT anything that has direct access to your personal or financial data...
I carried what looked like a credit card in my wallet for a number of years. It was very much like the chip carrier used for races - and contained no battery. All it had was a number, which the security system would compare to its list of known users.
In fact, many places put the sensor at wallet level (for men). You just had to place your wallet near the sensor and the door would unlock. Didn't even have to take your wallet out of your back pocket.
The fobs I speak of work the same way - not to be confused with the fobs used for unlocking your car. Again, passive - no battery.
The card I had was linked directly to my identity, as noted - when the powers that be changed access to certain areas and I didn't make the list, my card no longer worked there.
Situation like this come up quite often in cycling and running events. Standard etiquette is for the paricipants that have past the obtruction to wait for the others to catch up. There was a story in the news last week where a cyclist had crashed and the other cyclists did not wait for him becouse he had crashed on his own which is a totaly different situation. But his father was still so enraged that he drove out ahead of the pack and pulled a section of chain link fencing in front of them causing a massive pileup .
Daddy, what's a train?
schlimm[snipped - PDN] . . . Via Marathon organizers say Norfolk Southern gave them "absolute assurances" that trains would be suspended from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m. as has happened in past years. . . .
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