Hopefully visiting next year and the Curve is on my wish list. Is there anywhere i can find out the best time to watch a few trains go around it. Here in the UK there are several realtime sites that give this info quite freely. I really do not fancy arrivining and finding out there wont be anything for a couple of days!
Thanks
Ron
Ron, glad you are coming to the US. You won't have to wait a couple of days for action on the curve - an hour maybe. Perhaps some fans in the local area can chime in with some suggestions about days of the week and times of day.
Silver Fox 60017 Hopefully visiting next year and the Curve is on my wish list. Is there anywhere i can find out the best time to watch a few trains go around it. Here in the UK there are several realtime sites that give this info quite freely. I really do not fancy arrivining and finding out there wont be anything for a couple of days! I can assure you that your wait won't be a "couple of days". The curve is a busy place although there are times during the daylight hours that you might find a down time of up to an hour (at most). Last time I was there, which was on a Wednesday afternoon, I saw 11 freights and 4 engine only movements [returning to Altoona after helping the west bounds up the curve] in just over 3 hours. There are only two pasenger trains a day so don't plan your visit around them. They did have a list of the normal freight movements including days and approximate times at the ticket office at the bottom of the Curve. But the list did not include any non-regular movements so there can be more trains arriving than what's on the list--plus the returning helper locomotives. All of the west bound freights I saw that trip had helper engines to get them up the curve. The west bounds are what makes a Curve visit as they shake the valley going upwards. Its not as spectacular as what I remember as a young boy when the steam engines going west put on a never to be forgotten show but for someone who never saw that today's action is still very memorable. I strongly suggest you first visit the Altoona Railroaders Museum which is located downtown along the NS tracks before you go to the Curve. It is a good one and will give you an understanding of what life was like in that railroad centered city in the "glory" years of the Pennsylvaina Railroad. You can buy discounted tickets there that are good for both the Museum and the Curve. I also recommend reading up on both the history of the Curve and Altoona before you go as you get an understanding of how important both the Curve and the city of Altoona were back in the days when rail was "king" in the US. You can look up both the Altoona Railroader's Museum and the Horseshoe Curve on the internet for further information.
I can assure you that your wait won't be a "couple of days". The curve is a busy place although there are times during the daylight hours that you might find a down time of up to an hour (at most). Last time I was there, which was on a Wednesday afternoon, I saw 11 freights and 4 engine only movements [returning to Altoona after helping the west bounds up the curve] in just over 3 hours. There are only two pasenger trains a day so don't plan your visit around them. They did have a list of the normal freight movements including days and approximate times at the ticket office at the bottom of the Curve. But the list did not include any non-regular movements so there can be more trains arriving than what's on the list--plus the returning helper locomotives. All of the west bound freights I saw that trip had helper engines to get them up the curve. The west bounds are what makes a Curve visit as they shake the valley going upwards. Its not as spectacular as what I remember as a young boy when the steam engines going west put on a never to be forgotten show but for someone who never saw that today's action is still very memorable.
I strongly suggest you first visit the Altoona Railroaders Museum which is located downtown along the NS tracks before you go to the Curve. It is a good one and will give you an understanding of what life was like in that railroad centered city in the "glory" years of the Pennsylvaina Railroad. You can buy discounted tickets there that are good for both the Museum and the Curve. I also recommend reading up on both the history of the Curve and Altoona before you go as you get an understanding of how important both the Curve and the city of Altoona were back in the days when rail was "king" in the US. You can look up both the Altoona Railroader's Museum and the Horseshoe Curve on the internet for further information.
Gents,
Thank you very much for your input. I apologise for my English sense of humour ( note correct spelling!) about the long wait.
I hope to fly into San Francisco,drive the big Sur, and do the Redwood and Sequoia forests.Sacremento Museum, and a day on the cable cars etc.Then its off to St Louis Museum, do they still have the pre war London RT bus?, then to Green Bay, down to Baltimore,Altoona and Strasburg ( might also do Scranton) then up to Montreal. then home. Where i live near Windsor, where the castle is!, ( i could tell you a good story about that when we were in Detroit in 2001) we are blessed with two routes that have regular steam working on the main lines. One loco came through my local station on Tuesday. My lad is very interested in the Penn Railway and thinks the GG-1 are the bees knees. Another thing that we are doing is a very long term project to travel all the passenger lines that are shown on the TfL London Connections map. Have completed the whole underground network and all other lines north of the river. At present we are working anti clockwise on the southern section, and hope to complete it by next April.Not out to break records, just enjoy looking at the City from a railway window. If you have any questions on the UK just ask.
Kind regards
Please keep us informed when and if you intend to come visit the Chicago area.
You really should, of course!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
When you visit the curve they have a schedule of the trains rounding the curve, you can get a copy of this when paying your day long admission at the gift shop. Volunteers try to keep this list up to date, but it does not include the unpredictable movement of helper units going back to Altoona. Hope you have a great trip.
Silver Fox 60017 Gents, Thank you very much for your input. I apologise for my English sense of humour ( note correct spelling!) about the long wait. I hope to fly into San Francisco,drive the big Sur, and do the Redwood and Sequoia forests.Sacremento Museum, and a day on the cable cars etc.Then its off to St Louis Museum, do they still have the pre war London RT bus?, then to Green Bay, down to Baltimore,Altoona and Strasburg ( might also do Scranton) then up to Montreal. then home. Where i live near Windsor, where the castle is!, ( i could tell you a good story about that when we were in Detroit in 2001) we are blessed with two routes that have regular steam working on the main lines. One loco came through my local station on Tuesday. My lad is very interested in the Penn Railway and thinks the GG-1 are the bees knees. Another thing that we are doing is a very long term project to travel all the passenger lines that are shown on the TfL London Connections map. Have completed the whole underground network and all other lines north of the river. At present we are working anti clockwise on the southern section, and hope to complete it by next April.Not out to break records, just enjoy looking at the City from a railway window. If you have any questions on the UK just ask. Kind regards Ron
Ron I certainly agree with Carl. Chicago is a must see on your way too or from Green Bay. Depending on the time of year a stop at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union would be well worthwhile. If you know Paul and Wendy Baker from Baker Rail I know they will vouch for that (had them out there a couple of years ago).
On the LUL side I spent quite a bit of time in London leading the post Hatfield meltdown cause finding team. Lots of dull dingy days in Jan of 2001, not good for visiting vintage railways so my weekends were somewhat lacking things to do. Took on the task of riding all the LUL lines, successfully completed. A co-worker that stayed in the UK longer than I did completed one side of the London Connections map. Hard to believe that was all 15years ago.
Enjoy your time here! Any more questions ask away.
BTW not sure if St. Louis still has the RT. They got rid of most of their buses last year, luckily IRM was able to save a few.
Horseshoe Curve is worth seeing, but it's a shame that so much vegetation has been allowed to grow up, obscuring the panoramic view that used to be there.
Tom
I was there two years ago. A nice viewing area at the top of the stairs near and old diesel. The steamer that was there for some years is gone. The funicular is nice for handicapped people.
http://www.railroadcity.com/info/visitor-info/
Quite something to see two locos leading and two pushing a freight up the curve.
Hope you can get to Steamtown also.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
"Horseshoe Curve is worth seeing, but it's a shame that so much vegetation has been allowed to grow up, obscuring the panoramic view that used to be there."
Tom,
I have recently seen news that they (don't know if it was NS or someone else) have cleared the vegetation around the full arc of the curve, giving an unobstructed view for the first time in years.
Pete
Actually, since all the trees and bushes (yes, all) were removed in April 2016, the view to the east and west is better than it has been since I worked in the area in 1969, and I am not exaggerating.
I remember and have photos of it from back in 1969 - 1970 - it was just great !!
If the whole area was done as it seems to have been in a video I saw over the weekend, I agree it'll be like turning back the clock (for me).
You could see trains all the way from the curve to/ from the west at the top to past the (now gone - 2009 ?) signal bridge to the east.
Now if they'd only let people go up trackside when the visitor's center is closed -evening and early night - what a show !
- Paul North.
Amtrak's daily trains around the Horseshoe Curve can be viewed on-line on their Track-a-Train Map. On the Amtrak home page, the link is on the lower left (I have had problems posting a link directly to the map).
https://www.amtrak.com/home
The eastbound Pennsylvanian is scheduled to stop in nearby Altoona at 10:01 AM, and westbound at 5:06 PM. But today, for example, the westbound train was 27 minutes late at Altoona.
I have ridden Amtrak's Broadway Limited and National Limited four times around the Curve, once looking out the open Dutch door of a Slumbercoach.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood." Daniel Burnham
Pete M3 and Trackjack:
Thanks for the update. It's great to know that my info is out of date & that the view has been restored.
The Curve isn't the only point of interest. Besides the museum in Altoona, there is the tunnel portal in Gallitzin at the top of the grade, a viewing platform in Cresson, the overlook at Cassandra, and overhead road bridges at Lilly and Summerhill. You can also see the railroad climbing the mountain from US22 (also climbing) across the ravine. Oh yeah, and the brickyard crossing in Altoona and the Carney's Crossing road crossing railroad west from Cresson. There is also the Johnstown Flood National Historic Site at St. Michael, and last but not least, the Portage Railroad National Historic Site just outside Gallitzin. More than plenty to see.
In San Francisco, in addition to the cable cars. the PCC operations on the F Castro-Market-Embarcadaro and E Third Street-Embarkadaro routes might interest you, with an occasional Milan 1920's Peter Witt streetcar. Underneath Market, the J Church MUNI-Metro line is worth riding with a great view of SF along its surface portion. and a return via a different line and the Twin Peaks Tunnel. Riding under the Bay in BART should be done at least once, even if the view from a bus or auto on the Bay Bridge is of course more interesting than a tunnel. Unusual is the density of Amtrak and Cal-Dot diesel-hauled or pushed trains on street trackage at Jack London Square in Oakland with a beatiful essentially store-front passenger station, with the trains behaving like streetcars (trams). Is there anything like that in the UK? San Francisco is unusual that it has more types of public transportation than any other city in the World: Ferries, buses, trolleybuses, cable cars, streetcars, light rail, heavy rapid transit, and diesel commuter rail. All that are missing are a teleferique, funiciular, and Venice gondolas. Do the two Blackpool "boats" available for charter make for this last one?
Also sorry that Colorado and the three narrow-gauge operations are not on your list as well as Amtrak Denver - Salt Lake City or reverse.
Maybe next time?
trackjack Actually, since all the trees and bushes (yes, all) were removed in April 2016, the view to the east and west is better than it has been since I worked in the area in 1969, and I am not exaggerating.
Last time I was there was in April 2016 and I only saw one train in 90 minutes. Saw a heck of a lot of work crews cutting down trees and brush though!
Highlight of the day was seeing a B-52 at altitude overhead. Very impressive contrail too.
ACY Horseshoe Curve is worth seeing, but it's a shame that so much vegetation has been allowed to grow up, obscuring the panoramic view that used to be there. Tom
Thanks for all the updates, hopefully JUne next year will still be in a viewable situation. Unfortunately Durango has to be a miss due to time limits, but the Illinois site looks like being included in the Green Bay leg, just a bit more driving! For those of you interested in the mainline steam tours her, this is the site to visit...http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm..
Thanks Silver Fox: Your name caught my eye as I am a member of RCAF 441 Wing and our badge is the Silver Fox. Our Padre, Karl Ross, is a native of Altoona and we transported him their in the fall of 2015. A USAF veteran Col. Ret'd enjoyed visiting the Museum and seeing his grandfathers and fathers names displayed. I have visited the curve some 5 times and hope to return again. Cheers: Bob
www.rcaf441wing.com
Ron, freight trains run pretty much 24-7 so you'll never have to wait long. Rare sightings are the once daily passenger trains (AMTRAK), which go east through the curve approx. 0930-1000 am, and west at approx. 5:20 pm... enjoy your visit.
Maglev Amtrak's daily trains around the Horseshoe Curve can be viewed on-line on their Track-a-Train Map. On the Amtrak home page, the link is on the lower left (I have had problems posting a link directly to the map). https://www.amtrak.com/home The eastbound Pennsylvanian is scheduled to stop in nearby Altoona at 10:01 AM, and westbound at 5:06 PM. But today, for example, the westbound train was 27 minutes late at Altoona. I have ridden Amtrak's Broadway Limited and National Limited four times around the Curve, once looking out the open Dutch door of a Slumbercoach.
Haven't yet done this myself, but it's on my 'bucket list'.
Paul_D_North_JrPer the current (July 4, 2016) schedule, in the morning you can board the EB train at Johnstown (or any point farther west), and go as far east as Lancaster, PA (12-minute connection, so presumes OT performance). Then change to the WB train and return to your point of origin. So 2 trips over the Horseshoe Curve in the same day, 1 in each direction - about 9:30 AM EB, and about 5:30 PM WB. Can't do it in the opposite directions in the same day - need an overnight stay somewhere in the western stations. Haven't yet done this myself, but it's on my 'bucket list'. - Paul North.
That's a tight connection. Even if everything is perfect - one cab signal drop (or ACSES issue) east of HBG and you won't make it. I think I'd swap out at Harrisburg.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
If riding around the Horseshoe Curve both ways is the objective, I would take the eastbound Pennsylvanian from Johnstown.
Depending on the time of the year, you could stay at a motel in or near Johnstown and take a ride on the Johnstown Incline, assuming you select one of the dates that it is open. Google Johnstown Incline for the hours of operation.
Also, if you are a history buff, you could check out some of the sites made famous or infamous by the great Johnstown Flood.
The eastbound Pennsylvanian departs Johnstown at 9:04 a.m. and arrives in Altoona at 10:01 a.m. In addition to the curve you get a ride through the Gallitzin tunnels. Moreover, if you do it during the fall foliage season, you can see one of nature’s dramatic color shows. The westbound Pennsylvanian departs Altoona at 5:05 p.m. and gets you back to Johnstown by 6:00 p.m.
Unless a ride along the Juniata River is high on your list, get off in Altoona. There are several things to do. One would be to take a city bus to the campus of Penn State Altoona. It is a beautiful.
Not to be overlooked is the Railroaders Museum, which mentioned in another post, is worthwhile. Google Altoona Railroaders Museum for hours of operation.
Or you can take a bus to Juniata and have a looksee at the Norfolk Southern locomotive overhaul and repair shop(s). There are usually lots of locomotives waiting outside for the locomotive doctor.
Buses run from the Altoona Transit Center, which is also the Amtrak station. They are a great way to get around Altoona for very little money.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
While Horseshoe is a must see, don't neglect the west slope .... Cresson, Lilly, and Cassandra. Cresson has the Station Inn for an interesting bed and breakfast. Cassandra has a railfan park.. Gallitzin has a park by the west tunnel portals of tracks 1&2.
Garen
Cresson also has a "Railroad Park" with nice and fairly long viewing platform opposite the Station Inn - on the southeast side of the tracks and facing northwest, so the sun angle should be good most of the time. Also Vito's Pizza and another eating place or two on the street facing the tracks.
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