This morning two BNSF trains collided head-on on the Panhandle Sub. No word on the condition of the two crews. The Panhandle Sub. is Two Main Tracks with CTC. It is not yet equipped with PTC.
News10 video at crash site
beaulieu This morning two BNSF trains collided head-on on the Panhandle Sub. No word on the condition of the two crews. The Panhandle Sub. is Two Main Tracks with CTC. It is not yet equipped with PTC. News10 video at crash site
Gobs of stills as well on the KFDA site. Two stack trains on north track, right at east end of Panhandle. Big mess. One injured person transported to an Amarillo hospital in stable condition.
Somebody didn't have authority to be on that track at that time; or if they had authority it was improperly given by the Train Dispatcher.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Report says that 3 crew members are missing. One jumped. He is the injured crewman.
Mr. Travis will be along directly to tell us who was at fault and how this could have been prevented.
Norm
Heard a report earlier that "mangled box cars were piled up". Didn't think the reporter knew what he was talking about; pictures prove it.
Bombing in Turkey has pushed this off of Fox News though. They can't seem to handle more than one news story at a time. ADD?
ChuckAllen, TX
cefinkjr Heard a report earlier that "mangled box cars were piled up". Didn't think the reporter knew what he was talking about; pictures prove it. Bombing in Turkey has pushed this off of Fox News though. They can't seem to handle more than one news story at a time. ADD?
Just a short time ago, the first Westbound (domestic Stacks, and TOFC) of the day, passed here headed to Wellington(Ks.) and beyond...
The last train through here was late Monday night. A Stacker with mostly domestic cans. That seems to be the train that was stopped near Panhandle,TX., and was hit by an eastbound container train.
From the photos it appeared to be mostly Import/Export containers (?).. One of the film clips, that was amongst the early reporting seemed to be taken(apparently, by a passing motorist(?) from the area adjacent,and parallel to US Hwy 60... The brief clip seemed to show the eastbound train continuing to pile cars, and containers, as it continued forward to the point of collision with the other train, and into the area on fire(?)
There have been no further reports of the three missing crew men; only of the one survivor, who apparently jumped from his train, at some point. And is hospitalized ?
Eb LACLPC ran red block east end M1 to make meet w/wb CHISBD @ 0817am. Engr on wb jumped. Other three workers are missing. This took place about 3/4 mi east of depot which serves as city hall...One of the missing workers I have worked with in the past on the western end of the Lajunt Sub. This is hard to take. Out of being thoughtfull to the families involved, I would suggest not to spend much time on "this or that" and let it be for now.
sfbrakeman:
Please call me on my cell. 763-234-9306 (No I'm not crazy--railroaders stick together!) I knew the dispatcher involved in the Motley, MN head-on. He was not qualified for the job---plus about three other things were not in his favor.
Ed Burns
NP-BN-BNSF from Northtown.
ED, how possibliy could BNSF put a dispatcher in charge who was not really qualified? BNSF seems to me one of the most heads-up rarilroads around. I sm really puzzled. There must be something more.
daveklepper ED, how possibliy could BNSF put a dispatcher in charge who was not really qualified? BNSF seems to me one of the most heads-up rarilroads around. I sm really puzzled. There must be something more.
So, the 64 dollar question is: Were there questions about the qualifications of the dispatcher involved with the W. Texas head-on?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Who really thinks talking about a certain person performance on here is any where near appropriate. Let the railroad do the investigation on private and on site. This kind of speculation is never a good thing, making the site into a tabloid.
Who really thinks talking about a certain person performance on here is any where near appropriate. Let the railroad and the feds do the investigation in private and on site. This kind of speculation is never a good thing, making the site into a tabloid.
ROBERT WILLISONWho really thinks talking about a certain person performance on here is any where near appropriate.
Unless I've missed something, we're discussing a person in the abstract at this point - not a specific individual. As such, I would opine that it's little different than discussing track bolts.
This could also be a case of an inadequate shift turnover, or a very large area of responsibility, or a problem with the support system (computer programs, paper copies, etc).
Clearly, something went wrong. It remains to be seen what that might have been.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68Clearly, something went wrong. It remains to be seen what that might have been.
Agreed; could have been human error, mechanical failure, computer error, ad infinitum.
OTOH, there are some who have already, in their minds, decided the cause and continue to wildly speculate.
It has been said that this area was CTC controlled. I was wondering: even with CTC, aren't there also track circuits that would prevent conflicting signals? If so, and if an engineer was given clearance and sees a red signal, wouldn't he double check with dispatcher?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Just responding to certain poster referring to knowing a certain dispatcher who is not qualified.
I have long understood (mistakenly?) that it is impossible to set up conflicting routes using CTC--so long as there is no problem with the circuitry.
The Minnesota wreck several years ago was obviously the result of man failure. This one is not obviously the same. Let us wait until the cause has actually been determined before accusing anyone.
Johnny
ROBERT WILLISON Who really thinks talking about a certain person performance on here is any where near appropriate. Let the railroad do the investigation on private and on site. This kind of speculation is never a good thing, making the site into a tabloid.
I do not know what you are referring to as someone "talking about a certain person performance" in this thread. The only mention I have seen here about anyone's performance is a reference to a BNSF wreck 32 years ago, and that is all a matter of public record. There is no speculation involved.
I do not see any speculation or accusations directed toward anybody involved in the Panhandle wreck, which is the subject of this thread.
Paul of Covington It has been said that this area was CTC controlled. I was wondering: even with CTC, aren't there also track circuits that would prevent conflicting signals?
It has been said that this area was CTC controlled. I was wondering: even with CTC, aren't there also track circuits that would prevent conflicting signals?
If the signal system is functioning properly, correct. The CTC machine prevents the dispatcher from establishing a conflicting route and the ABS system in the field sets signals coverning entrance to a block to stop when a block is occupied and sets opposing intermediates to restricting/stop and proceed.
If so, and if an engineer was given clearance and sees a red signal, wouldn't he double check with dispatcher?
Kinda backwards, if an engineer sees a red signal, he would have to get a clearance from the dispatcher to pass it.
In CTC the signal is the train's authority to proceed. If the train encounters a stop signal then they would have to stop and get verbal permission from the train dispatcher to pass the signal displaying stop.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
ROBERT WILLISON Just responding to certain poster referring to knowing a certain dispatcher who is not qualified.
Without geting into an ad Hominem attack. I would suggest that the problem in your above post might be related to a single "IS" rather than the inferrd problem "WAS" relating to another wreck from the late 1980's.
I would suggest that you refer to and reread posts, previous to yours. Posts on this thread; as well as reading the concurrently running Thread here referencing the same 'accident' near Panhandle, Tx.
Then bear in mind the loss of life caused in what happened on Tuesday AM near Panhandle,Tx. Respect the families feeling that are personally involved, pray for them, and their loss. Then move along...Rest assured that the NTSB, and BNSF are completely competent to reconstruct the events of the collision and preceeding events. They will come to a solid conclusion, and recommend rules and regulations to hopefully, prevent a reoccurance.
NOTE: 'The GCOR is written by the General Code of Operating Rules Committee. The Committee is made up of members from the FRA, NTSB, some offices of the PUC and of course member railroads.
Regularly, the committee meets and writes a new edition, approximately, every 4 years (?)
and this 'CAUTION: [paraphrased] "...Operating rules exist because they are written in the blood of railroaders..."
I not either attacking or feel I am being attacked, I don't think this the proper place or time to being throwing around unsubstantiated claims or references. The families involved st all levels are grieving and the accident will be fully investigated. We are all here to enjoy the hobby. For me it does not involve point the finger of blame. Lets be respectful to all involved here.
ROBERT WILLISON I not either attacking or feel I am being attacked, I don't think this the proper place or time to being throwing around unsubstantiated claims or references. The families involved st all levels are grieving and the accident will be fully investigated. We are all here to enjoy the hobby. For me it does not involve point the finger of blame. Lets be respectful to all involved here.
EuclidWhy do you bring it up? Nobody is doing any of that here. Nobody is throwing around unsubstatiated claim or references. Nobody is pointing any finger of blame. Nobody is being disrespectful. So why are you so concerned about it?
The people who brought up the accident of 32 years ago (which obviously has nothing to do with this incident) were apparently railroaders - NP Eddie and sfbrakeman.
schlimm The people who brought up the accident of 32 years ago (which obviously has nothing to do with this incident) were apparently railroaders - NP Eddie and sfbrakeman.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding schlimm The people who brought up the accident of 32 years ago (which obviously has nothing to do with this incident) were apparently railroaders - NP Eddie and sfbrakeman. Would that be more or less relevant if in stead of being railroaders they were vegetable farmers?
Would that be more or less relevant if in stead of being railroaders they were vegetable farmers?
I said apparently. As you have always been a big advocate of deferring to railroaders' inside knowledge, I am surprised that you need to inquire as to the relevance. Last I looked, this forum is provided by Trains, not Modern Farmer.
schlimm Euclid Why do you bring it up? Nobody is doing any of that here. Nobody is throwing around unsubstatiated claim or referencesk. Nobody is pointing any finger of blame. Nobody is being disrespectful. So why are you so concerned about it? The people who brought up the accident of 32 years ago (which obviously has nothing to do with this incident) were apparently railroaders - NP Eddie and sfbrakeman.
Euclid Why do you bring it up? Nobody is doing any of that here. Nobody is throwing around unsubstatiated claim or referencesk. Nobody is pointing any finger of blame. Nobody is being disrespectful. So why are you so concerned about it?
Sfbrakeman did not mention anything about the irrelevant accident 30 years ago.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944Sfbrakeman did not mention anything about the irrelevant accident 30 years ago.
No, that was NP Eddie - who offered sfbrkmn moral support.
C'mon, people. Too many would-be monitors on this subject. The Panhandle accident is an entirely legitimate subject of discussion and, yes, speculation on a railroad forum.
"Respect" -- if that's what cowed silence is -- is not owed people whose relatives have made the public news and probably don't read the forum anyway. It certainly cannot be commanded by such as SF Brakeman, who has no standing to do so, no matter what he imagines.
It's history that a lot of similar accidents happened back in the bad old days of BN before stricter testing. Does that mean I'm saying the same thing happened here? Of course not. But it's certainly one of the possibilities, as are other scenarios raised here.
All legitimate. Those who think otherwise have a right to their opinion but no business using their free speech to try to stifle that of others.
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