My regional distributer has a RR siding but it has not been used for over 20 years and that was the same way in the distributer in the town before that in Richmond VA at Acca Yard...So I was surprised that beer and wine acording to the Train Mag Artical "Boxcars still matter" that alcoholic beverages are in the top 5 boxcar commoditys.
I live in the Richmond Va. area, and as far as I know the biggest beer distributor around here, Brown Distributing, gets the stuff by truck even though they're pretty close to Acca Yard.
Anheuser-Busch has a brewery down by Williamsbug, and they MAY get the raw matierials in by train. The old C&O, now CSX, runs by there, but I'm not sure.
PS: I don't drink Budweiser, I like Miller.
The Coors side of Miller-Coors still ships heavilly by rail and an awful lot of some popular mexican beer comes to Denver in boxcars. North yard Denver has a major rail served beer warehouse next to it near Utah Junction. A-B still ships quite a bit of finished product by rail out of Ft. Collins.
CandOforprogress2 My regional distributer has a RR siding but it has not been used for over 20 years and that was the same way in the distributer in the town before that in Richmond VA at Acca Yard...So I was surprised that beer and wine acording to the Train Mag Artical "Boxcars still matter" that alcoholic beverages are in the top 5 boxcar commoditys.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Most no longer receive by rail. Brewers are shipping from regional warehouses by truck, not by rail to the Distributors. A fair amount of beer is shipped in tank cars as concentrate to regional bottling plants that add the carbinated H2O and package/bottle it.
Bob
Ok, so I corrected my post so it may make sense now
One of our local distributors is located right next to the tracks, but I doubt rail delivery was ever a consideration. There's no room for a siding between the tracks and the building.
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BOB WITHORN Most no longer receive by rail. Brewers are shipping from regional warehouses not by truck to the Distributors. A fair amount of beer is shipped in tank cars as concentrate to regional bottling plants that add the carbinated H2O and package/bottle it. Bob
Most no longer receive by rail. Brewers are shipping from regional warehouses not by truck to the Distributors. A fair amount of beer is shipped in tank cars as concentrate to regional bottling plants that add the carbinated H2O and package/bottle it.
Sierra Nevada Brewing receives grain via rail at most of its facilities. Petaluma Brewing receives grain and ships product out (to where is unknown).
Unless you are located next to a shortline, railroad cooperation is difficult at best.
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The Des Moines Budweiser distributor used to receive by rail, but I think they discontinued that some years ago. About 15 years ago I worked the switch job that pulled/spotted cars there. Beer would come in both MRS and UP family box cars. I hated riding those MRS cars, the grab irons, while meeting regs, were placed closer to the car body. Made it harder to get my size 13s on them.
Still see a fair amount of wine in box cars. One train I had one time, wine made up 10% of the loads.
Jeff
When I was alive...I mean, working...a lot of Corona beer used to come from Mexico to a distributor right by Proviso (don't know whether it was in Yard 9 or south of Global 2). Toward the end of that time it all came in standard 50-foot box cars. It had previously come in RBLs during the colder months to protect it from the cold. I used to love seeing these cars, because they were mostly the old incentve-per-diem box cars that originated with every shortline imaginable. As they came here from Mexico, my assumption is that they came via Kansas City. Jeff, do you still see beer on any trains headed for us?
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East Syracuse NY there is a branch line that served Carreir Airconditioning that also served a Beer Dist. Also in New London CT there was a distributer at the south end of the Central Vermont Ry.
Firelock76 I live in the Richmond Va. area, and as far as I know the biggest beer distributor around here, Brown Distributing, gets the stuff by truck even though they're pretty close to Acca Yard. Anheuser-Busch has a brewery down by Williamsbug, and they MAY get the raw matierials in by train. The old C&O, now CSX, runs by there, but I'm not sure. PS: I don't drink Budweiser, I like Miller.
WELL! I guess I might add a little here. Seems that what got missed here is the addition to Virginia Beer Drinking Culture.. It used to ride in on the Norfolk Southern : Specifically, Coors Beer.
Back in the late 1970's There was a little labor kerfuffle that erupted in Golden Colorado at the Home of Coors Brewing. I think, I remember it lasting in the neighborhood of about a decade(?).
An outcome of that unpleasantness was the arrival about 1978(?) in Rockingham County, Va. of a 'Packaging Operation' for Coors Beer to package, and ship to East Coast beer drinkers their Coor's Woblin' Water: " Brewed with Pure Rocky Mountain Water" .
The deal was that the beer arrived in tank cars via NS to the packaging plant. Mostly, the bottles, wrappings and other supplies got trucked in, and trucked to quinch the thirst of those that had acquired a taste for it...Mostly gotten from trips to the 10 or 11 states out West where it could then be gotten legally, and those whose tastes for it had been quinched via various bootlegging activities.
It was about 88 or 89 when the previous kerfufle was settled, and later(2007 ?) when Coors Brewing merged with Molson ( YEP! OH! Canada!), and now they call it MillerCoors, and they are apparently brewing some of their Woblin' Water in [Elktron] Virginia.
CShaveRR When I was alive...I mean, working...a lot of Corona beer used to come from Mexico to a distributor right by Proviso (don't know whether it was in Yard 9 or south of Global 2). Toward the end of that time it all came in standard 50-foot box cars. It had previously come in RBLs during the colder months to protect it from the cold. I used to love seeing these cars, because they were mostly the old incentve-per-diem box cars that originated with every shortline imaginable. As they came here from Mexico, my assumption is that they came via Kansas City. Jeff, do you still see beer on any trains headed for us?
Once in a while. I see more wine. I used to see tank cars of whiskey going to Peoria, but it's been a while for that.
I used to enjoy reading the hazardous response info for the whiskey/alcoholic beverages. About the same as regular alcohol, but it seemed funny to read some parts of the warnings for something meant for human consumption. Things like avoid exposure, if exposed flush with large amounts of water, etc. I always thought if exposed, it should be flush with large amounts of black coffee.
jeffhergert...warnings for something meant for human consumption.
During a recent "hazmat" refresher class we discussed that a milk spill is a hazmat incident. Runoff, especially into waterways, is a real problem...
tree68 jeffhergert ...warnings for something meant for human consumption. During a recent "hazmat" refresher class we discussed that a milk spill is a hazmat incident. Runoff, especially into waterways, is a real problem...
jeffhergert ...warnings for something meant for human consumption.
Were people in the class crying?
Norm
CShaveRRWhen I was alive...I mean, working...a lot of Corona beer used to come from Mexico to a distributor right by Proviso (don't know whether it was in Yard 9 or south of Global 2). Toward the end of that time it all came in standard 50-foot box cars. It had previously come in RBLs during the colder months to protect it from the cold. I used to love seeing these cars, because they were mostly the old incentve-per-diem box cars that originated with every shortline imaginable. As they came here from Mexico, my assumption is that they came via Kansas City. Jeff, do you still see beer on any trains headed for us?
I always thought these Corona beer loads came into Proviso on MASPR (Manifest, Alton & Southern to Proviso IL). Train often had a block of FXE-marked boxcars on it. This was 2000-2007 when it ran regularly on the Peoria Sub (ex-C&NW).
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Some random comments on this interesting topic -
A few years ago when Inbev bought Anheuser-Busch, they virtually ended outbound rail transport from St. Louis. Prior to that, I know a place on the north side of the Twin Cities (Coon Rapids, I believe) was getting boxcars of Bud. Prior to that place's expansion- in the early to mid 90s at least, Mankato (where I live) got cars of Bud in boxcars. So, in my immediate area, it's been a gradual decrease. I think places in the Twin Cities still got beer by rail, but I'm not sure who or where those distributors are located.
I think City Brewing in LaCrosse, WI still hauls boxcars loads out.
Coors does ship a lot by rail still, but I fear with InBev buying it that may change. They do send tank cars across from Colorado to Virginia with a beer-like substance.
I've driven around Miller in Milwaukee - couldn't see much for tracks there. They may get in raw materials, but I couldn't tell.
Anheuser-Busch has a lot of distributors with apparently unused sidings - Dubuque, IA for one. I've seen many others around the midwest.
InBev isn't buying Coors (which merged with Molson several years ago)-Molson-Coors is buying the Miller operations from AB when AB buys SAB Miller. Coors is still a major user of rail inbound and outbound from the Golden brewery
I know that Coors West in Redwood City, CA has a siding, but they haven't received inbound carloads of beer in over a decade(if not longer). One of the deciding factors in how product is delivered is who is paying the freight, not all beer/wine is paid for by the shipper, sometimes the receiver/distributor(if large enough) pays the freight and decides shipping methods/routes. I can tell you that a lot of wine is still shipped via carload from the Central Valley in CA, but so is a lot shipped in intermodal service.
I remember seeing the white CORX tanks on BN and NS (the ex-NKP Fort Wayne line) as they interchanged in Chicago area back in the 80s or 90s (I forget). They were bigger than a corn syrup tanker but not a full DOT-111 in length. "Beerconcentrate" must be more dense than ethanol or crude or soybean oil.
More recently (2-3 years ago) I also recall seeing large blocks of MRS boxcar loads on northbound BNSF manifests along the river between Savanna and St Paul. Likely St. Louis A-B products heading for that Coon Rapids distributor mentioned above.
Finally, that transloader near Proviso does still get a lot of Mexican beer loads that originate on the FXE. Not just Corona but also Modelo. In fact this business is growing so fast that UPRR has invested in a car cleaning facility in Eagle Pass, TX. I'd venture Chicago isn't the only destination.
-PB
My son worked for a distributor. They told him they went to trucks because the railroad practically destroyed the first layer of product in every car they got. Preordering and difficulty in disposing of broken lots Just made the situation worse. They have used trucks for years.
My bad - I meant Miller, not InBev. Regardless, Miller isn't a heavy rail user. Hard to type on 4 hours of sleep.
DascoHard to type on 4 hours of sleep.
It's a lot easier on a keyboard....
The brewers of Matt's, Utica Club and others in Utica get thier grain in by rail. The track runs down the middle of a residential street like a streetcar. A beautiful old brewery and well worth touring. Also, the Lion brewery in Wilkes-Barre gets thier grain by rail. That's an interesting one also, a 100 (or more) year old brewery still in operation on a vertical scale, malt mills on the top floor, brewing kettles on a lower floor, aging tanks (riveted!) in the basement. Not to turn the topic onto breweries themselves, mind you but old breweries are pretty neat places.
I recall years ago that eight boxcars were left for reasons unknown on a siding in the Bronx. Someone broke into one of them and found that it was full of beer. The whole neighbourhood got word and cleaned them out.
Wine is a flammable liquid, so they have to have a Class 3 placcard on the car. The Hazmat UN number for alcoholic beverages is 3065..
caldreamer Wine is a flammable liquid, so they have to have a Class 3 placcard on the car. The Hazmat UN number for alcoholic beverages is 3065..
When we have wine in box cars listed in train consists they aren't flagged as hazmat or alcoholic beverages. They just show the contents as wine. There is no emergency response information given.
The tank cars of whiskey when we have (or had) them were marked as hazmat. The emergency response information was given and listed under alcoholic beverages.
54light15 The brewers of Matt's, Utica Club and others in Utica get thier grain in by rail. The track runs down the middle of a residential street like a streetcar. A beautiful old brewery and well worth touring. Also, the Lion brewery in Wilkes-Barre gets thier grain by rail. That's an interesting one also, a 100 (or more) year old brewery still in operation on a vertical scale, malt mills on the top floor, brewing kettles on a lower floor, aging tanks (riveted!) in the basement. Not to turn the topic onto breweries themselves, mind you but old breweries are pretty neat places.
and endangered creatures - Baltimore once had maybe 10 brewerys, now there is only one 'craft' brewer and they are located in a industrial park outside the city limits.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
interesting. When Dad worked outside as yard clerk for Frisco, he had to check car seals on boxcars to see if they had been tampered with. He had copy of manifest and paid close attention to liquor and cigs cars. If he found one, he'd contact the 'bulls" with walkie talkie.He worked 3rd trick on that job, no big tower lights like later years, only a battery lantern to swing so the crews would see him. Very scary and dangerous and this was in the steam era too. Mom was happy when he got enough seniority to get inside the yard office, much safer. A lot of booze and cigs were shipped in those days, but didn't know if they still were or not. AB here sold their Manufacturers Railway a few years ago, didn't use it, but some small RR took it over and I do see cars in their yards, I think they do some AB shipping.
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