Euclid This screening and testing will have to be ongoing, and it will investigate and advise on all of an employee’s activities and lifestyle both on and off duty, including all types of food, drink, and medications consumed.
This screening and testing will have to be ongoing, and it will investigate and advise on all of an employee’s activities and lifestyle both on and off duty, including all types of food, drink, and medications consumed.
It is a fine line between complicating the alerter reset procedure to prevent unconscious reset; and having the reset procedure become a burden on the crewmember. The technology will lead to an alerter that will know when an alert is needed, and will act only then.
Remember too, that the theories behind this fatigue problem are not just a simple lack of sleep. Instead, they are about a medical problem affecting some people and caused by rotating shifts and/or simple constant nightshift. Having defined the issue that way, the industry and its regulators must screen and test to find which employees have this medial problem, and either successfully treat them or remove them from safety sensitive service.
Commercial aviation has this problem, too. I remember from quite a few years ago, a crew fell asleep in the cockpit and it wasn't discovered until air traffic control noticed that the flight did not begin its approach to the airport.
tree68 daveklepper When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives? Locomotives nowadays have alerters, set to go off every couple of minutes at the longest (on our ALCO's it's at least partly speed related), but I believe it's been found that an engineer can do that in his sleep. A radio (satellite?) might help, but if you're tired enough, a brass band isn't going to help. Besides, what if the engineer likes heavy metal and the conductor is a country fan? Aside from the other crew member (who, if equally tired may be asleep, too), about the only solution might be introducing a more complex method of clearing the alerter - maybe like that thing they use on the Internet to prove you're not a robot. A code appears on a display and it would have to be entered exactly on a keypad...
daveklepper When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
Locomotives nowadays have alerters, set to go off every couple of minutes at the longest (on our ALCO's it's at least partly speed related), but I believe it's been found that an engineer can do that in his sleep. A radio (satellite?) might help, but if you're tired enough, a brass band isn't going to help.
Besides, what if the engineer likes heavy metal and the conductor is a country fan?
Aside from the other crew member (who, if equally tired may be asleep, too), about the only solution might be introducing a more complex method of clearing the alerter - maybe like that thing they use on the Internet to prove you're not a robot. A code appears on a display and it would have to be entered exactly on a keypad...
I have suggested that in the past... but I'd have the code displayed on the Engineer's console to be entered on the Conductor's console and vice-versa (alternately or randomly)... one crew member must read the code and the other must enter it... keep them both busy, and some way to make the code pertinate to the situation; randomly ask for the time, speed, notch number, air pressure, last milepost, or some engine parameter that varies somewhat (oil pressure, current, voltage, temperature, etc.).
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
All of the above suggestions are very sensible. Additionally, have regularly scheduled shifts for weeks at a time. Shifting sleep schedules would help fight fatigue. I don't know who objects to this, but certainly the unions fear reducing working hours. This is an interesting battle where railroads attempt to use human subjects in ways that won't work. PTC will lead to unmanned trains and then watch the unions scream!
All these ideas are not mutually exclusive, and again, if I were an active engineer or conductor, and my partner in the locomotive cab was willing, I would at least do what I suggest in the last paragraph, have a continiual useful conversation.
daveklepperWhen PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
At 84 years of age, I find I doze off easily. Even when attending a lecture of material which interests me (and often a young student will tap my leg with his to wake me) or even atending a concert with music that I love and awaited with anticipation to hear. Before moving to Jerusalem, I did own car (history, first a Ford Mainline, then two Covrairs in succession), and I found the radio an absolute necessity to keep me awake on long trips, except when conversation witih a friend riding with me (and usually sharing the driving) was an excellent alternative.
In Jerusalem, unlike New York or any other North American transit system, and not like the light rail line, bus drivers usually have a radio on, distributed to passengers through the bus public addrss system, never too loud to prevent normal conversation, and interrupted by the station announcements. The latest news is always the program of highest priority, reflecting our need for security information.
When PTC is implemented, the problem may be even worse, because there may be even less of the crew to do! It may be heretical, but possbily the car radio example is applable to freight locomotives?
Or maybe another solution would be to have the two-man crew continualy converse with each other in a constructive conversation, reviewing rules that are supposed to be commited to memory, having a sort of game of alternating the stations and control points along the line with the winner the one that lways reponse correcdtly and the looser the one who misses a point. If I were an active engineer or conductor I would dream up such a conversation game with my fellow crew-member to keep us both awake.
Welcome to our world, fatigue is a major problem industry-wide and the Companies don't want to address it because acknowledging it would force them to make changes that would impact the bottom line.
BaltACD On my carrier - If a train is stopped and is made aware that they will be stopped for and 'amount' of time the crew members are authorized to take upto a 45 minte nap - Individually, with the other crew member remaining awake and alert and able to answer the appropriate communication devices.
On my carrier - If a train is stopped and is made aware that they will be stopped for and 'amount' of time the crew members are authorized to take upto a 45 minte nap - Individually, with the other crew member remaining awake and alert and able to answer the appropriate communication devices.
Years ago CN had a similar program, it even go to the point where locomotives were being fitted with the baultar "sleepr" seats that lean back almost flat, all the better to take a nap in. But management ended the program over the Union's objections, and now trainmasters sneak up to trains in the middle of the night while you're stopped in the siding spying to see if you're napping, and if you're caught even for one second with your eyes closed you are issued demerits or suspended.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=micro+naps+while+driving&view=detail&mid=DE4FDB8895DEB0930246DE4FDB8895DEB0930246&FORM=VIRE
zugmann This showed up on my facebook feed, so I thought it would be worth sharing. This blog was written by Georgetta Gregory (chief of the NTSB Railroad Division): "Fatigue in transportation is such a significant concern for the NTSB that it has put “Reduce Fatigue-Related Accidents” on its Most Wanted List of transportation safety improvements. It is not just an issue in rail, but an issue in all modes of transportation that must be addressed." Read the rest: https://safetycompass.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/rail-workers-deadly-tiredbut-still-working/
This showed up on my facebook feed, so I thought it would be worth sharing. This blog was written by Georgetta Gregory (chief of the NTSB Railroad Division):
"Fatigue in transportation is such a significant concern for the NTSB that it has put “Reduce Fatigue-Related Accidents” on its Most Wanted List of transportation safety improvements. It is not just an issue in rail, but an issue in all modes of transportation that must be addressed."
Read the rest:
https://safetycompass.wordpress.com/2016/03/21/rail-workers-deadly-tiredbut-still-working/
As a now- retired Safety Manager, I am non-plused, but unsurprised by the coments by Ms. Gregory. Twenty plus years ago, I had attended a number of sessions provided by not only Federal regulatory agencies, but some local governmental agencies, and Industry-lead training sessions regarding various periods of sleep deprivation due to 'tight scheduling' (and attendant delays enroute). Circadian ryhthm interruptions, and the phenomenom called "Micro Nap-now referred to as Micro Sleep)".
Truck drivers, driving,alone or pushing to make an 'on-time' derlivery, were having rear-end accidents, or running into stopped vehicles on the roadway orrunning off a long straight-way, when failing to make a curve, dozing off, late at night; or driving into an early sunrise, unrested, and victimized by a micro sleep episode.
link to a video on a lab test for micro sleep @ http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=micro+naps+while+driving&view=detail&mid=DE4FDB8895DEB0930246DE4FDB8895DEB0930246&FORM=VIRE
Unrested crews have been problematic on railroads for a long time. THe accident mentioned by Ms. Gregory's post of the BNSF coal train rear-ending a stopped train of MOW equipment at Red Oak, Ia is one example of the cost of lack of sleep. Back about 2000 there was a post on the BNSF Home Page that they were (then) actiovely considering a process that woulld place a 'bunk' in the locomotive cab, and allowing one member to 'take a break'- with the 'consent' of the other crew member, who would agree to stay away [ presumably the rest would be taken while the train was 'stopped and awaiting permission to porceed'. I suspect that this was never 'approved' at a management level?
The article cites "three decades of research"...yes, its time to "implement what was learned".
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
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