One of the Navy officers in one of the Penn Station WWII photos could be my father but can't quite tell for sure. It really looks like him, the rank shown on his arm is correct, and he used Penn Station all the time during WWII whenever he travelled from/to NYC to Philly while his assigned ship was in port.
New book coming out on March 11, 2019:
"New York's Original Penn Station: The Rise and Tragic Fall of an American Landmark" by Paul M. Kaplan, The History Press. It's available from Amazon (of course).
I found some others, but not enough time to post them tonight.
- PDN.
The PRR was powerful in its day allright.
There's a story, maybe it's apocryphal, maybe it's not, but the story goes that decades ago the Pennsylvania state senate used to close its sessions like this...
"As the Pennsylvania Railroad has no pressing business for us or concerning us, I move we adjourn!"
Is it true? Wouldn't surprise me if it was!
Wow. Gives a great perspective on the whole operation. Pure railroading, plain and simple yet complicated and mysterious.
Also shows the power, importance and monies the PRR once held.
timzBroad St Station closed April 1952. It was a dead-end station...
Here are a couple of aerial views of the trainshed layout:
These are from the Wired New York blog discussion on Pennsylvania station.
There was a book about Penn Station from 2007:
https://www.amazon.com/Conquering-Gotham-Building-Station-Tunnels-ebook/dp/B000Q9J01K
There's a quote - I'm sure I've posted it before:
Shock Control It clocked in at 54 minutes. They could have doubled the length and it wouldn't have bored anyone.
It clocked in at 54 minutes. They could have doubled the length and it wouldn't have bored anyone.
There is shockingly little information online about day-to-day Old NY Penn Station operations. Conquering Gotham deals with the design and building, some operations and improvements, and the demolition. The Late, Great Pennsylvania Station is another.
"Penn Station, New York" by Louis Stettner is a new edition worth checking out.
Just watched the PBS American Experience show about Penn Station. It was excellent, but most of the show centered upon the construction and demolition. There was only a short segment on the 50 or so years of its operation. It clocked in at 54 minutes. They could have doubled the length and it wouldn't have bored anyone.
timz Might as well check the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Street_Station_(Philadelphia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Street_Station_(Philadelphia)
Just did. I don't think it was particularly an architectural marvel, but I still hate to see old buildings go.
NP: Ella and Louis Again - Verve (mono)
Might as well check the Wikipedia article
Thanks! I did not know about that station. I will have to look it up!
NP: Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Natural Black Inventions: Root Strata - Atlantic (stereo)
Broad St Station closed April 1952. It was a dead-end station-- dunno when the last "through" train went there. 1920s?
Was it Broadway, or just Broad maybe.?
It was a BIG, kind of Gothic place. They tore it down in.....1953-54.? Some time in the early 1950's i believe.
Shock Control kenny dorham In a wicked bit of bad luck, Pennsylvania also demolished their beautiful home station in Philadelphia...didn't they.? 30th Street Station? That is still there, and that is where the Market Street Bridge is, with the marble eagles from Penn Station. NP: The Modern Jazz Quartet & Orchestra, conducted by Gunther Schuller, Atlantic (mono).
kenny dorham In a wicked bit of bad luck, Pennsylvania also demolished their beautiful home station in Philadelphia...didn't they.?
30th Street Station? That is still there, and that is where the Market Street Bridge is, with the marble eagles from Penn Station.
NP: The Modern Jazz Quartet & Orchestra, conducted by Gunther Schuller, Atlantic (mono).
Johnny
kenny dorhamIn a wicked bit of bad luck, Pennsylvania also demolished their beautiful home station in Philadelphia...didn't they.?
I do realize there were A LOT of train stations lost in the last 50 years, but probably not too many on the scale of Penn in NYC.?
At least some of these old treasures manged to exist as a hotel, or some type of mixed commercial use. There is an ongoing effort in Buffalo to save and retain their station.....no doubt there are others.?
In a wicked bit of bad luck, Pennsylvania also demolished their beautiful home station in Philadelphia...didn't they.?
Bumping this thread. What an incredible loss this was, but I guess you have to lose some things to appreciate what is left. Boston's equivalent was the destruction of the West End neighborhood, which became a textbook example of how not to do urban renewal.
To Steve B500- Replying/Rebuttal to your March 5th posting. Meant to write earlier but little free time lately. I appreciate your correction and pointing out of some generalities that I overzealously attributed to Staurt Sauders. In that regard you are correct.
In a "what really happened" and "who's to blame" rebuttal I would like to point out and mention the following, all of it now in the historical record and accessible to all.
Saunders was chairman of the Penn Central until very shortly before it filed for bankruptcy. More on that a bit later. He returned to private law practice and worked as a financial consultant. (my own thoughts whisper are you kidding me, and I have known some pretty seedy financial consultants, unfortunately after the fact).
He is, according to written history, better known as The Vandal of Penn Station. Under his rule and accountability "Penn Station in NYC was callously razed, an indelible act of grand vandalism that has lastingly scared the sensibilities of every resident of NYC and art lovers across the entire world. Sauders saw to it that he could declare it derelict and pull it down. Saunders has forever registered his name in the annals of the great vandals of art history." So there is that...he could have saved it and I'm certain federal, state, city, and private monies could easily have been raised and tax relief granted to restore the building instead of declaring it derelict. Especially at that level he was at, in the circles of society and power brokers in politics he associated with. So his sensibilities lay with money, money, money, a quick buck.
Previous to this he served as President as the N&W from 1958-1963 where he immediately initiated the conversion from steam to diesel and ending abruptly the companies distinction as the nations last steam railroad. The N&W was quite happy and successful with steam and certainly would have retained steam for some time. Who knows what advances and efficiencies could have come out of that as the N&W was by far the leader and innovator in steam maintenance.
Less than 5 years as President of N&W is a short period of time. Besides removing all steam he built a new coal dock,...a no brainer.
In his autobiography, published privately, that he left to his family only, he blamed the bankruptcy of the Penn Central on "the many years it took to consummate the merger and that the morale of both railroads was badly disrupted and they were faced with unimaginable problems which were insurmountable".
Does that make any sense at all? If it took such a long time to get to the merger then obviously you had plenty of time to avoid all these insurmountable problems. This is like saying the Titanic sunk because it took so long to get there and we had too much time to think about it. As to the morale issue well, he fired most of the Trainmasters, Transportation Superintendents, Division Superintendents and General Managers well before the bankrupcy ensuring that these positions were held by employees with less than years experience on the job as the bankruptcy came. ( see Wanswheel document posted on this forum discussion). You think the employees morale was boosted by widespread firings of the experienced managers, the destruction of Penn Staion ( symbolic in the minds of employees for sure), the deliberate and casual non planning that went into the newly formed Penn Central and the reminder of the killing of steam on Americas last and successful steam railroad. I don't think so! Employees must have lived in fear day to day. He bailed out of Penn Central as it went down, like a rat or a certain Captain of a cruise ship. This guy was Stalin and ISIS rolled into one. He fooled many that's for sure.
Lastly he was among a group of former directors and officers who paid out $12 million ( massive dollars for the sixties, let alone individuals) in a settlement to end litigation from lawsuits " accusing Mr. Saunders of dereliction of duty and responsibility for issuing false financial statements and misleading proxy material over a period of years". Quite the character.
Well gee whiz, he was a common crook. In a pin striped suit who cared for nothing but the almighty buck lining his own pockets. A crony capitalist, destroyer of things good, families, art, legacies, you name it. Then his last words were "I didn't do it, not my fault" along with the stupidest reasons and deflections possible.
54light15The men all wore ties.
And most of them wore hats (of the fedora or derby variety, etc, not baseball caps).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Look at pictures of people on the street back then, even people in soup kitchens. The men all wore ties. I've seen pictures of a model train club in the 30s shown in MR and same thing, ties on. Remember Paul Muni in "I was a Fugitive From a Chain Gang?" At the very end when he was down and out, he wore a tie.
kenny dorhamWho The F would care if they sat next to somebody wearing shorts.....what would you do, jump from the plane.?
Depends - does he have knobby knees and really hairy legs?
The Western world is a much more 'casual' place when it comes to dress than it was half a century ago. It is what it is.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Miningman Nothing like flying next to a guy wearing shorts! C'mon!
Nothing like flying next to a guy wearing shorts! C'mon!
Who The F would care if they sat next to somebody wearing shorts.....what would you do, jump from the plane.?
blue streak 1 Talk about dress code or lack of: The airline night coach from LAX to ATL was notorious for being known for passengers worse than a Greyhound bus. Now same time night coach SFO - ATL had much higher class of passengers/
Talk about dress code or lack of: The airline night coach from LAX to ATL was notorious for being known for passengers worse than a Greyhound bus. Now same time night coach SFO - ATL had much higher class of passengers/
Considering that it may well be some of the same passengers, maybe they get "gentrified" while they're in Georgia...
We usually don't get folks dressed to the nines (other than the occasional wedding), but certain social groups are usually a step above casual - the women in dresses (long) and the men in sports shirts - generally buttoned all the way up.
Aside from that, we get all sorts...
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