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The Future of Railroading.

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The Future of Railroading.
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, January 1, 2016 8:09 PM

This isn't a prediction about PTC, automation and one or no man crews, or the loss of coal.  This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up.  Maybe it reflects more on the company I work for than the industry in general, but from the responses to Mookie's "Master, Master" thread, maybe not.  They are in no particular order and from different locations and people.  I think these little tidbits also reflect about hiring and promoting those that don't know what a railroad does or how it does it.

Without further ado, here they are.

"We don't make money on car load business.  We only do it for P.R. reasons."

"We don't need those coal trains."

"Does kicking cars really make switching go faster?"

"The job of train dispatcher is just an entry level job to managment."

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

Fred Frailey's column in the February issue touches on the car load business.  How service is bad, customers unhappy and what it might take to change things for the better.  First, you have to want to.  I think it's clear from some of these statements that at least one company does not want that line of business.  Quite a while back I wrote about a couple of opprotunites that my company wasn't interested in.  I've heard of a couple more.  One that was being developed by local management, the other by a person who left the railroad for another company that could use railroad for shipments.  Both were shot down higher up in the company.  (One was said to have been shot down by one who is quoted above because of too much risk.) Both would make money for the railroad, but would be small amounts, one was only expected to bring in $6 Million, the other probably less.  That may be, but I think there will be a rude awakening one day once all the low hanging fruit withers away and everyone else is using Walmart.

Jeff

 

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Posted by rockymidlandrr on Friday, January 1, 2016 8:15 PM

The future of railroading is furloughs, lots and lots of furloughs.

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, January 1, 2016 8:33 PM

Jeff - in my simple mind, substitute most quality service in any industry for railroads.  And find that there really isn't much quality service.  But for some reason we keep going back because product sold at A, service isn't any better or any worse than B.  And we either need or want that product.  

Simply - my newspaper can't get to my door any better than my french fries can get into my bag of food! They are both missing most of the time. One pharmacy can't fill a script any better than another and both either miscounted the pills or forgot to follow up on a script because it was moved to another dr in the system.  Catch-22?  

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Posted by dakotafred on Friday, January 1, 2016 8:46 PM

Instructive post by Jeff. Sounds like at least some railroaders are getting too big for their britches. That could get its comeuppance fast as we continue to deindustrialize -- thru bad trade deals and ideologically driven regulation -- and those unit trains continue to shrink.

The truckers will be delighted to pick up the carload business we scorn (the little of it we have) and reward with such poor service.

Needless to say, passage of just a few months has caused me to reconsider my investment in railroad stocks.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, January 1, 2016 8:59 PM

I've been saying some of the above for quite awhile.  So has Greyhounds. A focus on the short-term and the low-hanging fruit portends hard times. But railroad management is largely without imagination because the culture is based on "doing things the way we always do it" and does not attract innovators.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, January 1, 2016 9:21 PM

I re-read "The Men Who Loved Trains" this past week.  It should be required reading for anyone in business, not just the railroad business.  Sometime I think it should be tattooed on the inside of railroad exec's eyelids.  Rush Loving must be banging his head on the nearest wall, wondering "Why did I write that book if no one learns from it?"

The comments I've just read make me think that nothing's changed, that the only thing we can learn from history is NO-ONE learns from history and the wheel has to be re-invented over and over again because the same dumb mistakes are made over and over again. 

George Washington kept himself sane during the trying times of the Revolution by telling himself "We have to take people as they are, not as we would have them" but damn it, it couldn't have been easy for him.  Times change, but human nature certainly doesn't.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, January 1, 2016 10:29 PM

rockymidlandrr

The future of railroading is furloughs, lots and lots of furloughs.

 

And that's what's happening.  But you can only cut yourself to prosperity for so long.   

Jeff   

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, January 1, 2016 10:41 PM

Well..... Two things come to mind.  First, change a few key words in thosw quotes and you've described my industry- lumber and building materials.  We buy from and compete with companies that are trying hard to emulate Walmart's business model of cheap junk and no sevice.  In some ways, it feels like a lot of industies in our country are racing to the bottom. Second, we are one of those (tiny, tiny) receivers of carload shipments.  It's frustrating and we sure don't do it because we like the service.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Euclid on Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:45 AM

jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:56 AM

Euclid
 
jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

 

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

Pride and Madison Ave spin.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:20 PM

Murphy Siding- the race to the bottom is very hard to stop. Furthermore it adds to the dumbing down of North America. You would think the railroads were somewhat immune but that is far from the case .

Firelock'76- "one thing we can learn from history is NO ONE learns from history"....(only exception I can see is my dog).  It is one of the most frustrating aspects of the human condition. 

As to the future of railroading I remain an optimist, steel on steel, virtually friction free, plus I eagerly anticipate the return of steam someday, in a whole new form and concept of course, but steam nonetheless. 

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Posted by rockymidlandrr on Saturday, January 2, 2016 10:39 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
rockymidlandrr

The future of railroading is furloughs, lots and lots of furloughs.

 

 

 

And that's what's happening.  But you can only cut yourself to prosperity for so long.   

Jeff   

 

 

You're right, but they seem to have no sign of stoppin. Never mind the trains sitting and waiting on crews now.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, January 3, 2016 8:41 PM

Euclid
 
jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

 

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

 

Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past.  To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.  As long as it's small business.  (And maybe a few coal contracts.  I sometimes feel like the attitude is since it's probably going to go away anyway, why try to hold onto it.)  It's like we are too important for the little stuff, only thing that matters is the very big customers, like UPS, etc.  Let the little people ship on BNSF, just as they shop at Walmart.  The well-to-do will use us, just as they shop at Macy's.

Thinking like that, and some of the other comments explaining away the loss of business didn't originate (for the most part) with the ones who said them.  Rather it's a reflection of what's coming down from their bosses and their bosses' bosses.  I wouldn't be surprised to find some within some levels of management and departments (those who are removed from the day to day physical operations) who don't know how the railroad makes it's money.  Sure, they may know (I hope) that we make it by moving freight.  But it sometimes seems like they think there are customers beating down our door, standing in line waiting to do business with us.  That the demand is so great we can pick and choose who we do business with. 

Jeff 

  

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, January 3, 2016 8:56 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
Euclid
 
jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

 

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

 

 

 

Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past.  To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.  As long as it's small business.  (And maybe a few coal contracts.  I sometimes feel like the attitude is since it's probably going to go away anyway, why try to hold onto it.)  It's like we are too important for the little stuff, only thing that matters is the very big customers, like UPS, etc.  Let the little people ship on BNSF, just as they shop at Walmart.  The well-to-do will use us, just as they shop at Macy's.

Thinking like that, and some of the other comments explaining away the loss of business didn't originate (for the most part) with the ones who said them.  Rather it's a reflection of what's coming down from their bosses and their bosses' bosses.  I wouldn't be surprised to find some within some levels of management and departments (those who are removed from the day to day physical operations) who don't know how the railroad makes it's money.  Sure, they may know (I hope) that we make it by moving freight.  But it sometimes seems like they think there are customers beating down our door, standing in line waiting to do business with us.  That the demand is so great we can pick and choose who we do business with. 

Jeff 

  

 

Pride (or arrogance) goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 4, 2016 9:47 AM

When it concerns making predictions about the future, there are two types of people: those who don't know what the future holds, and those who don't know they don't know.

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, January 4, 2016 4:37 PM

The AAR load report for the proceeding week shows a miscellaneous car load increase of 17 % + .  ( ~ 6270 cars total ).  Although the total number of misc car loads was low maybe some persons in sales is now trying to fill the capacity gap ?

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Posted by carnej1 on Thursday, January 7, 2016 11:22 AM

Ulrich

When it concerns making predictions about the future, there are two types of people: those who don't know what the future holds, and those who don't know they don't know.

 

 

I am certain that "Future Events will affect us in the Future" to quote "Plan 9 from Outer Space"

https://youtu.be/jb6H14gVWjM

 

"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, January 7, 2016 7:21 PM

schlimm
 
jeffhergert

 

 
Euclid
 
jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

 

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

 

 

 

Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past.  To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.  As long as it's small business.  (And maybe a few coal contracts.  I sometimes feel like the attitude is since it's probably going to go away anyway, why try to hold onto it.)  It's like we are too important for the little stuff, only thing that matters is the very big customers, like UPS, etc.  Let the little people ship on BNSF, just as they shop at Walmart.  The well-to-do will use us, just as they shop at Macy's.

Thinking like that, and some of the other comments explaining away the loss of business didn't originate (for the most part) with the ones who said them.  Rather it's a reflection of what's coming down from their bosses and their bosses' bosses.  I wouldn't be surprised to find some within some levels of management and departments (those who are removed from the day to day physical operations) who don't know how the railroad makes it's money.  Sure, they may know (I hope) that we make it by moving freight.  But it sometimes seems like they think there are customers beating down our door, standing in line waiting to do business with us.  That the demand is so great we can pick and choose who we do business with. 

Jeff 

  

 

 

 

Pride (or arrogance) goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

Not necessarily brother.  I think the people I work for (and quite a few others) would rather go bankrupt than admit they're wrong. 

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, January 8, 2016 7:45 AM

Firelock76

 

 
schlimm
 
jeffhergert

 

 
Euclid
 
jeffhergert

 This is a small compilation of quotes (and one question) from some in management.  Mostly lower level, many of whom probably have visions of climbing the ladder farther up. 

"The BNSF is the Walmart of railroads, we are the Macy's.  We are a premium company that can charge premium rates because we provide premium service."

 

Who said that?  How can one railroad be the "Macy's" while the rest of them are Walmarts?

 

 

 

Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past.  To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.  As long as it's small business.  (And maybe a few coal contracts.  I sometimes feel like the attitude is since it's probably going to go away anyway, why try to hold onto it.)  It's like we are too important for the little stuff, only thing that matters is the very big customers, like UPS, etc.  Let the little people ship on BNSF, just as they shop at Walmart.  The well-to-do will use us, just as they shop at Macy's.

Thinking like that, and some of the other comments explaining away the loss of business didn't originate (for the most part) with the ones who said them.  Rather it's a reflection of what's coming down from their bosses and their bosses' bosses.  I wouldn't be surprised to find some within some levels of management and departments (those who are removed from the day to day physical operations) who don't know how the railroad makes it's money.  Sure, they may know (I hope) that we make it by moving freight.  But it sometimes seems like they think there are customers beating down our door, standing in line waiting to do business with us.  That the demand is so great we can pick and choose who we do business with. 

Jeff 

  

 

 

 

Pride (or arrogance) goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

 

 

Not necessarily brother.  I think the people I work for (and quite a few others) would rather go bankrupt than admit they're wrong. 

 

"Not necessarily?"  You just gave an example of what the aphorism means.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, January 9, 2016 12:13 AM

Somewhere John Kneiling is either laughing, or rolling over in his grave yet again . . .

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, March 12, 2016 2:09 PM

The other day I heard from a conductor, second hand, about another satisfied customer.  This conductor's son works for the local ethanol plant and told him this one.

It seems there was an elevator up on the grain lines that had ordered cars to ship corn, I think to this ethanol plant but it could've been to one of the other Iowa corn plants.  The elevator operator was waiting and waiting for the cars.  He kept calling the railroad to see when they were going to be spotted, but couldn't get an answer.  It finally got to where he couldn't wait any longer, he needed to move the corn.  So he hired some local grain trucking company to do it.  He got prompt service and a lower rate.

The elevator guy then goes and has a regular padlock placed on the switch stand in addition to the railroad's lock.  At the line where railroad ownership and maintenance ends and the elevator's begins, he had a red flag put up.  On his side of the line he had a rail pulled up.  A few nights later, the train shows up to spot the cars and finds the lock, flag and missing rail.  Needless to say, they didn't spot the cars.

Assuming this to have gone down the way it happened, I would guess the railroad isn't happy about him cancelling his order the way he did.  I'm also guessing he also wasn't a big user of the railroad, maybe trying to start using it again.  Somehow, I don't think he will be back. 

Jeff         

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, March 12, 2016 7:00 PM

jeffhergert
Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past. To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.

Quotes taken out of context are easy to misunderstand.  The irony is the comments was intended to rebut the basic premise of this whole thread.

The assertion of this thread is that railroads don't care about quality service and just give whatever they want.  The comment about Walmart and Macy's was saying that the railrod that compared themselves to Macy's felt they were trying to provide a higher quality of service.  Exactly what this thread suggests they do.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, March 13, 2016 11:04 AM

dehusman
 
jeffhergert
Arrogance, something this company has been noted for in the past. To me, it seems like an attempt to say losing business to the BNSF doesn't matter.

 

Quotes taken out of context are easy to misunderstand.  The irony is the comments was intended to rebut the basic premise of this whole thread.

The assertion of this thread is that railroads don't care about quality service and just give whatever they want.  The comment about Walmart and Macy's was saying that the railrod that compared themselves to Macy's felt they were trying to provide a higher quality of service.  Exactly what this thread suggests they do.

 

I don’t interpret it that way.  The railroad saying it is the Macy’s sounds like arrogant excuse making coming from people who are too comfortable to take risks or offer new ideas.  They are linking their performance to a scale of quality that does not really exist.  In railroading, there is no Macy’s.   It is all Walmart.  You either do the job and fight for every dollar, or you don’t.   

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