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Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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Oh you guys. You fooled me for a few seconds, I thought this was the DECENT thread. Of course the only true way to find sassification is to get a higher reply to view ratio than the other thread. Mine has had a 2 day head start, and the counter says 59 replies, 1,737 views, or 3%. You have 1 reply, 64 views, or 1%. Let's see where you stand in 2 days.
If I lose I'll give you a free yacht ride. If I win I get to take you on a free yacht ride.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it. I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me. We had a lot of railroad workers on here. This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel. Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart? Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it. I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me. We had a lot of railroad workers on here. This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel. Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart? Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters.
If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career. You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin. If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I certainly wouldn't want to be in a world where everybody agreed with me, that would be too boring. As I mentioned before in other threads, I can't imagine how anyone's posts to me could get me to quit, not just because I have the power to ignore, but I haven't found any social media site that doesn't have the same controversy as that about which you're complaining.
Unless I'm to give up internet posting altogether, which some may argue would be a good thing both for me and those forced to read my posts, I'll continue. I like to suspect that professional railroaders would do so too. Are you sure you're not just succumbing to feeling that the good old days were always better? How do you know that those people who claimed to be railroad workers really were what they claimed to be?
How do you know why they no longer participate? Did most of them give fairwell posts before you never heard from them again?
I don't think you can equate a career (mine is fine, BTW) with a forum. Two separate things.
It's not a question of being thin-skinned; it's a matter of what value do I get out of this (even if it's jsut entertainment value)? And that value has not been there in a long while. Maybe it'll cycle back and be better some day. Or not. Not the first forum to go away, and not the first one I stopped posting to. Mookie is right on with her observation. Take a look at topics from several years ago to see the active posters that were around then. We lost a lot of good names for many reasons. Sure we gained a few since, but I don't think it's a balanced equation.
As always, that is my opinion.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BaltACD Mookie Garden - while this is a tongue-in-cheek posting, it has a very serious part to it. I joined this forum a day or two ago, wanting to learn some of the nuts and bolts of a trade that is very interesting to me. We had a lot of railroad workers on here. This has dwindled down to just a handful along with a lot of people that want to push their agenda and put down their words as gospel. Would you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart? Consequently, we have lost a lot of good information and posters. If the back and forth BS of this forum causes a 'career' railroader to move on, they didn't learn much about having a thick skin during their railroad career. You can't have a career in the field elements of railroading, T&E, Signals, MofW without cultivating a thick skin. If you are thin skinned, your coworkers will eat you for breakfast, let alone lunch an dinner.
That is so true, Balt. And it is true in other fields as well, or to least used to be. In an academic world rife with 'helicopter parenting' and 'safe zones' and 'trigger warnings' we have moved to a victim culture where disagreement and criticism are becoming taboo. Civility is one thing; mutual patting on the back quite another.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
gardendanceI certainly wouldn't want to be in a world where everybody agreed with me, that would be too boring.
Agreed, but: Dissent based on logic and reality are readily accepted by most. OTOH, arguments based on wishful thinking and misinformation are quickly dismissed by those who have the correct answers.
Norm
MookieWould you want to participate in a forum about your profession or something that you are truly interested in only to have someone constantly picking it apart?
This.
If someone has worked long and hard to gain the respect of their working peers, why should they come here to have some I-think-I-know-it-all tell them they haven't a clue what they're talking about?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I wonder how many real railroaders have left because they got upset? I have been here almost eight years and it seems likely a fairly small number.
Also, if someone works in one aspect of a railroad, it hardly follows that they are much more expert on another aspect than an outsider. Is a flight attendant an expert on flying a plane? Is a rail accountant an expert on engine maintenance? Is a locomotive engineer an expert on grade crossing designs?
Probably not too many, but who knows for sure. More than likely people leave over the years due to changing interests and life circumstances. We're all going to stop coming here eventually.
Schlimm - I agree w/you about different facets of railroading. But we do have some crossovers - an op to a non-op. But it isn't fair that if someone has a career in say MOW and they try to post something about the most effective way to do XYZ and some one else tears their post apart and not always with accuracy - wouldn't that irritate you after awhile. We don't depend on the forum for a paycheck. So I/we can be a little thin-skinned. But no matter what job they do on the railroad they should be allowed to explain or answer and unless they are totally incorrect, they shouldn't be badgered off the forum.
Ulrich Probably not too many, but who knows for sure. More than likely people leave over the years due to changing interests and life circumstances. We're all going to stop coming here eventually.
And yes, there are some in all postings that should be on the "argue forum". They never tire of constant "poking".
SJ, I agree. It is one thing to point out a difference that has been observed on another railroad/at another location; it is quite another thing to say that a person who is involved in railroading daily is absolutely wrong.
At times, I have made a statement which was wrong--and when I was corrected by someone in the railroad industry, I was glad to be set right.
Johnny
Mookie Schlimm - I agree w/you about different facets of railroading. But we do have some crossovers - an op to a non-op. But it isn't fair that if someone has a career in say MOW and they try to post something about the most effective way to do XYZ and some one else tears their post apart and not always with accuracy - wouldn't that irritate you after awhile. We don't depend on the forum for a paycheck. So I/we can be a little thin-skinned. But no matter what job they do on the railroad they should be allowed to explain or answer and unless they are totally incorrect, they shouldn't be badgered off the forum.
"Badgered off"? We are supposed to be adults. Each is free to come and go of his/her own volition. Asking a question and even challenging someone's view is not "tearing them apart." And frankly ad hominem attacks were by railroaders as well as by outsiders, maybe even more so. The "yes, but" ad nauseam postings can be ignored out of fatgue, but instead the railroaders and their defenders (at least one of whom left) got personal and nasty.
Andd there are plenty of fine railroaders, current and/or retired who make frequent interesting posts who are ok with some give and take: eg., zugmann, Jeff Hegert, BaltACD, Carl, Mudchicken, to name a few.
In most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds.
I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong?
Ulrich I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong?
Euclid: I don't think anyone has the right to berate anyone else in most circumstances and especially not on a forum.
But I would accept what most working railroad people say, until someone that also works in the industry can prove them wrong, than I would from someone that "read it in a book" or article. A good discussion between the two would be great reading. Questions are good. Restating a thought when there is an answer more than twice, not so good.
No one is the pure source of anything. I won't dispute that. But a plumber (ie) knows a lot more about my sink drain than I do - it is his job, it is what he was trained to do and I get the feeling the railroads don't let screw-ups work very long in their position.
schlimmIn most walks of life, people who cannot tolerate disagreement with their ideas, concepts, interpretations (not their actual experience) are often standing on shaky grounds.
This is where you are getting away from what I am looking for (information) and going into the philisophical. If you are going to delve into this on a forum, then it should be as gentlemen - on both sides. Otherwise, take it to e-mail.
Murphy Siding Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland?
Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland?
How close to the dock? Is the middle of Lake Erie ok? If so, since I think that's right on the US-Canada border, where would they bury the survivor?
Mookie Ulrich I'm told I'm wrong every single day of the week by people from all walks of life, employees, family members, banks, suppliers, customers, complete strangers even. Yet I don't get bent up over it.. am I wrong? Ulrich - I am smiling at your post. Obviously if that many people are telling you that, maybe you should check it out? I admire people who can remain calm, even in a furious dust-up. But that still doesn't mean they are right. Or maybe even wrong.
Ulrich - I am smiling at your post. Obviously if that many people are telling you that, maybe you should check it out? I admire people who can remain calm, even in a furious dust-up. But that still doesn't mean they are right. Or maybe even wrong.
Absolutely. And at the end of the day I'm proven wrong alot of the time as well, but I'm ok with that. There's no shame in being wrong. Fortunately for me, Ive been right most of the time on the Big Picture stuff (like who I married and my career choices) but even there I'm not offended by other points of view. Certainly on the business side I depend on people to tell me when I'm wrong or even completely out to lunch. I'm not an accountant, banker, or lawyer, so I'm counting on those people to correct me at every opportunity. And then there's the small stuff.. I make a quick cost/benefit calculation before standing on principle. More often than not its not a battle worth fighting as even a clear win offers no benefit to me.
Many years ago, during my officer candidate training in the lower mainland of British Columbia where the Canadian Forces Officer Candidate School was situated, I finally had to put my foot down one evening. I called the rest of my cohort to a meeting after supper and gently chided them about their difficulty with marching in step (part of our training at that initial level of recruitment was seeing if we could be team members and actually perform drill movements on a parade square in concert).
I explained to them that I found it very easy to find the cadence and to remain in step, but that the rest of them were abysmal at it. In fact, they were all marching in precisely the wrong step! It was amazing that they could all do it incorrectly.
Due to my intervention, we eventually got it and were all in step. Took a while, though.
schlimm I wonder how many real railroaders have left because they got upset? I have been here almost eight years and it seems likely a fairly small number. Also, if someone works in one aspect of a railroad, it hardly follows that they are much more expert on another aspect than an outsider. Is a flight attendant an expert on flying a plane? Is a rail accountant an expert on engine maintenance? Is a locomotive engineer an expert on grade crossing designs?
Of course working in one aspect of a railroad does not make one a universal expert. And more than a few railroaders only know about their little part of it; they are only there for the paycheque. And they most certainly won't be found on a railfan forum.
The professional railroaders here care about the industry, and while not necessarily expert, have some knowledge of what other aspects entail. The train crew may not know everything about track but interactions with track maintenance forces provide ample opportunity to learn some of the basic issues. In general the professionals here know where their expertise lies and limit postings to those topics.
To use your example of a flight attendant, while she may not know how to fly an airplane I think you would be surprised at how much more she knows than the average passenger. She remains part of the crew when things go wrong, which is when the best opportunities for broader learning occur.
The only "universal experts" I see on this forum are those who know very little. The professionals remain, partly to continue to learn about details outside their own experience, and also to try to correct the misinformation that some preach.
gardendance Murphy Siding Alright. I give up. I lose. You're the winner. I can't make it for the yacht ride though. I'm sending Ray instead. Can you drop him off at Cleveland? How close to the dock? Is the middle of Lake Erie ok? If so, since I think that's right on the US-Canada border, where would they bury the survivor?
My observation - I believe the 'bedrock' posters that have moved on got tired of the moderation that was trying to control things to being acceptable to being shown on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood or Romper Room with Miss Nancy.
Railroading is a adult subject area whose economics and operations are contentious and entwined with politics at all levels.
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