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Chatterbox Fall 2015

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, December 7, 2015 7:41 PM

Carl - many years ago stringlining was explained, but I have forgotten what it is.  

Could you or someone explain again to me and anyone else that forgot or doesn't know - what happens?  

 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 7, 2015 7:49 PM

Take a piece of string and form it in an arc on the table.  Pull the ends.

With a train and a sharp curve, pulling too hard on one end with too much resistance on the other will do the same thing, except it's railroad cars getting pulled over... 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, December 7, 2015 7:52 PM

Mookie

Carl - many years ago stringlining was explained, but I have forgotten what it is.  

Could you or someone explain again to me and anyone else that forgot or doesn't know - what happens?  

 

 

 I'll take a stab at it.  Stringlining is when cars are pulled off the rails on the inside of a curve.  Imagine a train of cars taking a corner to the left going forward.  If there is enough force pulling on the train, it makes the cars tip over to the left.  In essence, the train is trying to make a straight *stringline* out of a curve row of cars.  It's apparantly more prevelant with empty cars.

ps   Happy Birthday!  (And Merry Christmas.  Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? Mischief.  pss   working on the Christmas letter.)

 

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, December 7, 2015 8:33 PM

[quote user="Murphy Siding"

ps   Happy Birthday!  (And Merry Christmas.  Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? Mischief.  pss   working on the Christmas letter.)

[/quote] Combine them and I know where to get a whole gon of coal for your sock drawer.  But if you could include a little chocolate cake in letter....

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Posted by Mookie on Monday, December 7, 2015 8:38 PM

When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, December 7, 2015 9:00 PM

Mookie

Murphy Siding

ps   Happy Birthday!  (And Merry Christmas.  Is it ok if I get you a combination birthday and Christmas gift again? Mischief.  pss   working on the Christmas letter.)

Combine them and I know where to get a whole gon of coal for your sock drawer.  But if you could include a little chocolate cake in letter....
 

 Ha ha.  Joke's on you.  I cleaned out my sock drawer today, so I have plenty of room for coal.  Please send it by train, as we don't get any coal cars through town.  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, December 7, 2015 9:01 PM

Mookie

When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)

 

 I seem to recall that it was usually empties, and was dependant on the type of cars and where they were in the train.  Helloooo!  Any railroaders out there with their ears on?

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 7, 2015 10:03 PM

Just saw a picture of a bunch of aluminum hoppers at the bottom of the hill having been stringlined on a 10 degree curve (pretty sharp in railroad terms).

As with my string example, you need something pulling on both ends.  Too much power, heavy loads at the other end (with the aforementioned empty cars), brakes released on the front but not on the rear (and power applied), a significant grade - any of them could combine to cause the problem. 

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:43 AM

Mookie

When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)

Normally, long, empty cars are involved in 'stringline' derailments.  The tonnage of the train that is behind the long empties creates the 'drag' that overstresses the empties ability to stay on the rail.

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:48 AM

Wow - a picture and lots of words (probably not printable)  

Thanx Balt.  This I can understand.

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 7:33 AM

BaltACD
 
Mookie

When this stringlining occurs, is there a specific cause - like weather, rail condition, speed, anything an engineer can do to keep this from happening...(I hesitate to say bad train handling)

 

Normally, long, empty cars are involved in 'stringline' derailments.  The tonnage of the train that is behind the long empties creates the 'drag' that overstresses the empties ability to stay on the rail.

 

'Appears to me that the cars are simply leaning into the curve, so as not to scrub off too much speed.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 8:05 AM

Stringlining was also a frequent cause of derailments involving piggyback cars.  I remember a derailment in 1969 on the CWI at the 130th Street curve.  The curve was superelevated and I suspect some less than ideal train handling led to the slack being pulled out and the piggyback cars went right on their side inside the curve.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 11:00 AM

Glad that stringlining was explained to your satisfaction, SJ.


Center-beam flat cars are far and away the worst offenders here.  They're heavier on top than most other cars of that height, and the other cars have heavy underframes to lower the center of gravity, which Center-beams do not (the partition itself takes the place of the underframe in making the car rigid under load).

In my experience, the curves that are the sites of stringline derailments eventually find themselves rebuilt in some way, if possible.

Carl

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:22 PM

The string-lining Carl described often has a train handling component to to it and usually it is slack action acting as the trigger as the drawbars run in and out.

Trackmen have another version of stringlining that they are all to familiar with which involves measurements based on 31 and 62 foot chords. The FRA rules are based on this and the track guys use stringlining because us mudchickens often aren't handy when ya need 'em. (Using a 62 foot string, if you measure the mid-ordinate at 31 feet on the string (the distance from the string over to the gage corner of the ball of the rail) in inches, you get the degree of curve. For the ten degree curve mentioned above would have a 10 inch distance between the string and the gage corner of the rail. (Radius?.... REAL railroaders don't need no stinkin' radius! Mischief)

 

(Murphy: We've been trying to pay off the Cat on an installment plan. At the rate I'm going, the cat is gonna have a lifetime supply of chocolate cake. Embarrassed ... )

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:35 PM

Good explanation MC, but lacking one factor. Are the ends of the string on the gage side of the rail head or the field side?

Norm


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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 4:09 PM

Yes.

Carl

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Posted by JoeKoh on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 4:42 PM

Ns was clear when I left work.I would think autoracks would be cars to tip over on sharp curves as well.Matt and I are going to a Christmas  concert. Will see what CSX has running (or waiting to get to Garrett.)

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 5:05 PM

CShaveRR

Yes.

 

Carl, from your answer, if you put the string on the gauge side, you measure to the gauge side, and if you put the string on field side, you measure to the field side? Or, does it make that much difference?

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 5:34 PM

Gage side, high/outside rail at all three places. (otherwise the middle of the string gets snagged or hung up on the rail which can create false measurements)....Field side on the low rail would generate a similar number, but it isn't the actual running surface corner.

The stringline concept, albeit modified, is how the big curve liners work as well.

DiningCar, PDN and I have strungline* more than we would like to admit and then gone through the repetitive brain damage of mathematical iteratively balancing the "throws" to smooth a curve...

While stringlining has its issues, it often is all you have when the surveyors are elsewhere on something more pressing. Some old head track side Division Engineers and above wanted stringlining to the exclusion of a surveyed solution.

 

 

(*) real verb? Spel-czech might fry a processor on that one. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by ChuckCobleigh on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 5:57 PM

mudchicken
(Radius?.... REAL railroaders don't need no stinkin' radius!Angry )

Yeah, but the ulna will be really lonesome without it.Big Smile

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:00 PM

And I thought Carl was a retired railroader--or is that why he is retired?Smile

Ahem: stringlined.

Thanks, MC. I'm sure the Cat thanks you, too.

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Posted by Norm48327 on Tuesday, December 8, 2015 6:36 PM

ChuckCobleigh

 

 
mudchicken
(Radius?.... REAL railroaders don't need no stinkin' radius!Angry )

 

Yeah, but the ulna will be really lonesome without it.Big Smile

 

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 1:50 PM

mudchicken

(Murphy: We've been trying to pay off the Cat on an installment plan. At the rate I'm going, the cat is gonna have a lifetime supply of chocolate cake. Embarrassed ... )

I was never sure if you could pay off that much cake.

Dan

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 2:34 PM
Try?

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 2:38 PM

Haha!  I'm sure you'd "have to" let us, wouldn't you?  Big Smile

Glad some things never change.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 4:18 PM

     Well I'm no good at making choclate cake.  One of the few things I can make that's actually pretty darned good is lasagna.  Anybody know the current exchange rate from chocolate cake to lasagna?

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Posted by JoeKoh on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 4:33 PM

short eastbound stacker on Ns when I left work.Time to go go go.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by Mookie on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 4:46 PM

Murphy Siding

     Well I'm no good at making choclate cake.  One of the few things I can make that's actually pretty darned good is lasagna.  Anybody know the current exchange rate from chocolate cake to lasagna?

 

Even!  And bakery will help you with the cake, so you can do both!Dinner

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, December 9, 2015 6:10 PM

Cat has quite a franchise going there in Nebrasky. The Oracle would certainly approve.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by JoeKoh on Thursday, December 10, 2015 5:23 PM

evening

Ns was clear when I left work.Got word CSX decided to pick a switch in Fostoria today.It's Friday tomorrow.Guessers say highs in the 60's this weekend.

stay safe

Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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