BaltACD Flintlock76 CSSHEGEWISCH There are no foxholes in the air. With all due respects, the 8th Air Force suffered more fatalities in WW2 than the Marine Corps. Absolutely true. And in the European Theatre of Operations the casualty rate of the 8th Air Force was second only to the infantry. 8th Air Force Museum is at Pooler, GA outside Savannah adjacent to I-95.
Flintlock76 CSSHEGEWISCH There are no foxholes in the air. With all due respects, the 8th Air Force suffered more fatalities in WW2 than the Marine Corps. Absolutely true. And in the European Theatre of Operations the casualty rate of the 8th Air Force was second only to the infantry.
CSSHEGEWISCH There are no foxholes in the air. With all due respects, the 8th Air Force suffered more fatalities in WW2 than the Marine Corps.
There are no foxholes in the air. With all due respects, the 8th Air Force suffered more fatalities in WW2 than the Marine Corps.
Absolutely true. And in the European Theatre of Operations the casualty rate of the 8th Air Force was second only to the infantry.
8th Air Force Museum is at Pooler, GA outside Savannah adjacent to I-95.
So it is, and we've been there.
MORE than well worth a stop, it's magnificent! We didn't expect to be there for more than an hour, and wound up spending nearly half a day.
A beautiful tribute to the military legend that the "Mighty 8th" is.
When my father in law died going thru his personal belongings we found his dad's WW2 diary. Both my hubby and I knew he had served in WW2 in the ETO however he had never told his kids what he had done in the war even when he was dying of cancer. My FIL had read this diary and said I now knew why my dad was the meek man he was. It was his journal of his 35 missions he had done as a ball turret gunner on a B-24 first based out of North Africa then Italy. He described his first mission to his last. The terror of being the man in the fishbowl seeing his friends and crewmates killed around him yet somehow coming home alive. Out of the 10 men that he went on his first mission on and he was a replacement for the ball turret gunner on that one the original had a hot appendix that had to be removed he was the only survivor that came home. How he had a sinus infection on another mission and the crew flew off and was shot down that mission.
Go to You Tube and look up "Daks over Nomandy" there are several videos featuring a legendary aircraft. A big salute to the D-Day veterans and may we remember them and what they achieved forever!
Making the gun that ensured enemy planes did not survive the war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVeLsJtId_g
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
[quote user="BOB WITHORN"
]Shadow, Dad had simular stories, 30 missions in B-24's as the bombardier. Three occasions when he got lucky he wasn't on board.
[/quote]
I watched the 75th Anniversary of the D-Day invasion with aimilar interests. Many of us 'War Babies' grew up as Bob Whithorn had; With parent(s?) that had served durig the WWII era. Questions about "...What did you do in the War....? Went unanswered for years. Only after years, 'time' allowed some of us to find out those roles, they had played.
My dad, joined the Navy after, Pearl Harbor; just like so may did. He wound up in the first Annapolis Class of '90 day wonders'. Went on to be assigned to the Amphibious Forces [on LCI's] and wound up in the Mediterranean Theater for 22 months. Making landings in that theater, until Operation Dragoon (nee: Anvil) That was set ot counteract Operation Overlord in June 1944.
After 1945, his ship was assigned to the Memphis District of the US Corps of Engineers. We had a chance to go on board one sunday, when it was tied up in Memphis. After that duty, it was taken out into the Gulf ofMexico, and sunk, as part of a reef.
I grew up on Long Island and every kid's father served in the war. My old man graduated high school in 1944 and immediately joined the USAAF. He washed out of pilot school (he said he cried like a baby when that happened due to his eyesight) and became a dorsal gunner on B-29s. Sat in a dome on top of the fuselage and controlled the fore and after turrets using a type of computer, he said. The war ended before he was sent to the Pacific.
My godfather (friend of Dad) was a blister gunner on a B-29 with the 20th AF. He mentioned that control of the guns could be passed to other gunners as needed. He also recalled that the 509th CG was set apart from everybody else on Tinian.
One of my brothers joined the Air Force in the spring of 1943; his work was that of a control tower operator in British Guiana--sending planes across the Atlantic to North Africa.
Another brother joined the Navy, also in the spring of 1943; he was a radarman on a minesweep, joining his ship in North Africa in 1944.
Johnny
CSSHEGEWISCH My godfather (friend of Dad) was a blister gunner on a B-29 with the 20th AF. He mentioned that control of the guns could be passed to other gunners as needed. He also recalled that the 509th CG was set apart from everybody else on Tinian.
The rest of the bomb groups on Tinian were a bit leery and weary of just what was going on over at the 509th's area, since all they seemed to do was fly practice missions and absolutely nothing else.
They even composed a bit of nasty doggerel verse about them, one stanza of which goes like this...
"Into the air the secret rose, where they're going nobody knows.
Tomorrow they'll return again, but we'll never know just where they've been.
Don't ask about results and such, unless you want to get in Dutch!
But take it from one who knows the score, the 509th is winning the war!"
I imagine there were a lot of red faces on Tinian after August 6th, 1945.
What most of the crews of the B-29 did not know is the planes of the 509th had been modified to carry the Atomic weapons that were designed to fit into the bay of the B29. Certain planes where designed to carry the Little Boy bomb like the kind used over Hiroshima and others where modified to carry the Fat Man style. Other planes were designed to carry sensor and weather measuring data to see just what these bombs did as everything up until August the 6th except for the Trinity test was guess work by some of the best minds in the freaking world. The reason why Japan never raised any alarms or fired at the planes that dropped the bombs was simple they had done this multiple times flying in a 3 plane formation and the target cities were used to seeing them doing recon runs at least at Hiroshima they had flown over it over 50 times.
Deggesty ...his work was that of a control tower operator in British Guiana--sending planes across the Atlantic to North Africa.
I spent a year on a South Pacific island (atoll). We were there to support missile "landings," but the airstrip on the island was built to support ferry operations - moving bombers to Australia.
The island (Canton, now Kanton) is only 5 miles by 9 miles, and "hollow" at that. I image the crews were happy to see it after flying over 1000 miles from Christmas Island (itself 1300+ miles from Hawaii). Their next hop was 1200 miles to Fiji.
Canton Island was also a stop for the Pan Am Clippers before the war.
There are those who feel that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan may have crash landed on one of the Phoenix Island group. As I spent time on Canton, I was contacted by one of that group about an aircraft engine that may have been recovered from said island. Unfortunately, my memory is very gray on that.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 Deggesty ...his work was that of a control tower operator in British Guiana--sending planes across the Atlantic to North Africa. I spent a year on a South Pacific island (atoll). We were there to support missile "landings," but the airstrip on the island was built to support ferry operations - moving bombers to Australia. The island (Canton, now Kanton) is only 5 miles by 9 miles, and "hollow" at that. I image the crews were happy to see it after flying over 1000 miles from Christmas Island (itself 1300+ miles from Hawaii). Their next hop was 1200 miles to Fiji. Canton Island was also a stop for the Pan Am Clippers before the war. There are those who feel that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan may have crash landed on one of the Phoenix Island group. As I spent time on Canton, I was contacted by one of that group about an aircraft engine that may have been recovered from said island. Unfortunately, my memory is very gray on that.
Kanton Island
https://earth.google.com/web/@-2.81750835,-171.66929162,-0.80671314a,23234.0778986d,35y,0h,0t,0r
BaltACDKanton Island
That's the place! It was a joint US/British possession, and was then turned over to the island nation of Kiribati (kiribahs).
I got as far as the southeast tip via land, and over to the "British Side" via boat. Did a fair amount of skin diving, too. Talk about beautiful (except where they'd blasted the channel between the two sides and the seaplane runways).
The north side had the runway - two, actually - the second, for fighters, is hard to distinguish now. The south side (the British side) had the Pan Am facilities. You can't really make out the seaplane "runways" in the satellite photos.
The main cantonment area was just south of the air terminal - you can make out the streets and some of the building locations. Most of the building materials have been scavenged.
The island had an active settlement until jets were able to make it non-stop to Australia, making an interim stop unnecessary.
I just noticed that the road between the main cantonment area and the port facilities is now broken - Mother Nature claiming her own, I guess.
There is an old shipwreck just off the south side of the main channel. Not much of it left when I was there, and I suppose less, now.
During the Gemini flights, Canton was a tracking/communications station. The antenna was still there back in 1972. While I was there, we had two very large tracking dishes, and on the southeastern tip of the island was the "splash detection radar," which measured where the incoming missiles landed in the ocean.
We also had a weather radar to track any rain that might effect the accuracy of measurements, and we launched a daily weather balloon as well.
It was an interesting year...
Tree, 380th B/G left San Fran., flew to Hawaii then down to Christmas Is, next was to your 'home away from home" Kanton Island and then indeed on to Fiji. Same route my dad's crew took in Jan. 1945, ending up in New Guinea at I believe Biak for staging up to the P.I. on Mindoro Is. at Murtha Strip.
BOB WITHORN Tree, 380th B/G left San Fran., flew to Hawaii then down to Christmas Is, next was to your 'home away from home" Kanton Island and then indeed on to Fiji. Same route my dad's crew took in Jan. 1945, ending up in New Guinea at I believe Biak for staging up to the P.I. on Mindoro Is. at Murtha Strip.
While I was there we had maybe 400 people on the island. Hard to imagine what it was like with the 20,000 I've seen referenced in info about the war years there.
The big gun emplacements (sans guns) are still there, as are portions of the hospital - which included a lot of concrete.
Fresh water was, as one could guess, scarce, having to be made, as it were. As a result baths/showers were rare as well, as it's no fun having salt water dry on your skin.
The soldiers would spot a rain shower coming toward the island and get lathered up with seawater, only to have the rain shower split and go around the island. Rinse with sea water, complain, life goes on.
Shadow the Cats owner What most of the crews of the B-29 did not know is the planes of the 509th had been modified to carry the Atomic weapons that were designed to fit into the bay of the B29. Certain planes where designed to carry the Little Boy bomb like the kind used over Hiroshima and others where modified to carry the Fat Man style. Other planes were designed to carry sensor and weather measuring data to see just what these bombs did as everything up until August the 6th except for the Trinity test was guess work by some of the best minds in the freaking world. The reason why Japan never raised any alarms or fired at the planes that dropped the bombs was simple they had done this multiple times flying in a 3 plane formation and the target cities were used to seeing them doing recon runs at least at Hiroshima they had flown over it over 50 times.
My father was part of the 509 on Tinnan on one of those 'other' planes. Before that they used the B29 for Hump Flights.
I just looked up the AT-802 out of curiousity. Amazing airplane, and it kinda-sorta looks like a baby Stuka!
Here's the skinny for all those interested, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802
I found the counter-insurgency light attack variant interesting as well. Reminded me of the Cavalier Turbo Mustang from around 1970, intended as a counter-insurgency aircraft as well. The Cavalier didn't have any takers as I recall, ahead of it's time I suppose.
Flintlock76Amazing airplane, and it kinda-sorta looks like a baby Stuka! ... I found the counter-insurgency light attack variant interesting as well.
Then you'll love this 'slightly modified' version of the Thrush competition, from 2017:
When you get those turboprop engines on there, interesting things start to become possible. Pity the Defender aircraft from Canada didn't evolve that way!
Wow.
That stretched-out snoot makes it look like a psychotic ant-eater. Scary.
I wonder if they've considered putting a Jericho-Trompete on it?
Flintlock76 wonder if they've considered putting a Jericho-Trompete on it?
None of the armament is optimized to be fired or released in a dive. Why waste the horsepower to drive the si-reens, even with a thousand shp of turboprop?
(For those who don't recognize the reference, listen up.
Personally I think the modern equivalent is a chain gun; if anything even more evocative when you spin it up.
OvermodNone of the armament is optimized to be fired or released in a dive. Why waste the horsepower to drive the si-reens, even with a thousand shp of turboprop?
It'd probably be easier just to mount a Q2B (or E-Q2B) on it...
Of course, people ignore those, too...
They were propeller-driven. But the drag cost about 15 mph on an already slow plane.
charlie hebdo They were propeller-driven. But the drag cost about 15 mph on an already slow plane.
I saw that when I looked them up to see just how they did work. I knew they used some sort of siren, but the how was something I wasn't aware of.
Interesting that they took that much speed off...
tree68 charlie hebdo They were propeller-driven. But the drag cost about 15 mph on an already slow plane. I saw that when I looked them up to see just how they did work. I knew they used some sort of siren, but the how was something I wasn't aware of. Interesting that they took that much speed off...
That's why the sirens were eliminated on later models of the Ju 87, such as the G and some D series.
When I was a kid watching the old war movies with the screaming dive bombers I assummed the sound was the engines in the dive.
It was not until I was older and heard of the sirens that I understood what the sound really was.
So I then researched why they were installed. The same reason why bombs had the whistle on them... originally it was considered proper "gentlemanly" warfare to warn people that they were under attack (i.e.: about to die).
It was later decided that it was of value as a terror weapon... scare the people to death before you blew them away.
When it was found that a complete surprise attack was more effective as a terror weapon, (people are more afraid of the unknown) they were no longer installed.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Those Stuka sirens were automatically engaged when the dive brakes were deployed. The problem was, sometimes the clutch malfunctioned after the dive and the Stuka pilot would have to put up with the damn thing all the way home.
As Charlie said, later models didn't have the sirens. In fact, the sirens wound up being removed on the planes already out there. Not worth the trouble.
And the dive-bombing concept was a casualty of WW2 itself at any rate. No-one's done it since, at least not to my knowledge, certainly not any of the American services. Same with torpedo bombing, that ended with WW2 as well. It hasn't been missed.
Flintlock76And the dive-bombing concept was a casualty of WW2 itself at any rate. No-one's done it since, at least not to my knowledge, certainly not any of the American services.
About as close an anyone probably comes is the "pop-up' technique used by A-10's. They fly nap-of-the-earth until just before reaching their target, then pop up and dive in to drop their bomb. At least, that's how they did it when I was the "Hawg Smoke" competition some years back. They certainly don't come in from 15,000 feet...
I suspect missiles (like the Exocet) have probably replaced WWII-style torpedo attacks, not to mention dive bombing.
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