The wife and I were out enjoying the February thaw today and went into an used bookstore in Chesterton, In which had a fairly large number of railroad books.
I picked up "Dinner in the Diner - Great Railroad Recipes of all Time" by Will C. Hollister. The book was written in 1960 (if my Roman Numeral translation is correct) and is a combination railfan/cookbook. There are 19 chapters, each covering a railroad (along with a map and several photos of passenger trains or interiors of dining cars). Each chapter will have several recipes from the diner, for a total of perhaps 200 recipes.
I enjoy cooking and plan on using the recipes. The first planned meal will be "Corn Bread Pie" from Baltimore and Ohio, which is essentially cornbread with cooked ground beef, onions, pepper, etc. which is a variation of what I call "taco cornbread".
Anyone else seen this fine book? Cost was $10.
Ed
Amazon says it was published in 1970.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
What time is dinner?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I'm already hungry. Post the recipes.
Norm
I know the book; it's down in the dungeon somewhere (gotta get that library organized someday!). 1970 sounds plausible (MCMLXX?).Some of those recipes will feed a whole bunch of people!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I keep my copy in the kitchen along with The Joy of Cooking and an ancient Betty Crocker. Copyright is MCMLXV (1965); mine is 3rd edition (revised), sixth printing, 1977.
On the same shelf you'll find my 1947 Pennsylvania Railroad Dining Car Dept. Cooking and Service Instructions (Reprint from Friends of the Railroad Museum [of Pennsylvania]), and Dining on the B&O by Thomas J. Greco and Karl D. Spence,Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 2009. I understand there are others out there, but I think Dinner In The Diner was the first of its kind.
Tom
The proprietor and I chatted quite a bit and he has quite a few railroad timetables and stuff that he will put out for sale. He never passes up old railroad books, magazines, or timetable. He had an interesting book on Unit Train developement from 1960 thru 1969 published by University of Chicago. Cost was $20 and I passed.
His store was in Hyde Park near University of Chicago until taxes pushed him out to the Hoosier Land of Opportunity. He has people who look for books and other items for him in the Chicago area.
One item brought into him was a one of a kind binder of recipes in a Pullman binder. He researched it and there were no records of it. It is at an auction house in NYC and he was told it could easily fetch $800 - $1000.
My wife looked at the book today...her comment was something along the lines of "train pictures, railroad maps, and recipes this book is perfect for you."
I am going to use the Banana Bread recipe this afternoon and will let you know of the results.
First recipe to be used:
Great Northern "Banana Nut Bread"
4c sugar
2 c shortning
8 eggs
4 c mashed banana
6 tbs sour milk (used milk plus vinegar)
4 tsp lemon juice
8 cups bread flour
4 tsp baking powder
1 tsp salt
1 tsp baking soda
4 c chopped nuts
banana flavoring (i used vanilla extract)
Mix ingredients and bake until done. This recipe bakes four loaves.
I cut it into half and have 2 loaves in oven now.
I too have the book (not sure of its date), but haven't yet tried the recipes. My wife says the ones she looked at were high in fat - e.g., lard, butter, whole eggs, etc. For example, the recipe above includes 2 cups shortening and 8 eggs.
In recent years I've gotten more experience in the kitchen, so maybe someday soon . . .
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr I too have the book (not sure of its date), but haven't yet tried the recipes. My wife says the ones she looked at were high in fat - e.g., lard, butter, whole eggs, etc. For example, the recipe above includes 2 cups shortening and 8 eggs. In recent years I've gotten more experience in the kitchen, so maybe someday soon . . . - Paul North.
In the general public in the 50's and before, no one had ever heard of Closteral (either good or bad) and all the other things we are expected to be on the look out for in our diets.
BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr I too have the book (not sure of its date), but haven't yet tried the recipes. My wife says the ones she looked at were high in fat - e.g., lard, butter, whole eggs, etc. For example, the recipe above includes 2 cups shortening and 8 eggs. In recent years I've gotten more experience in the kitchen, so maybe someday soon . . . - Paul North. In the general public in the 50's and before, no one had ever heard of Closteral (either good or bad) and all the other things we are expected to be on the look out for in our diets.
Well as Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly, USMC, said at the battle of Belleau Wood...
"Come on, you SOB's! Do you want to live forever?"
Or maybe I should paraphrase Admiral Farragut...
"Damn the cholesterol! Full speed ahead!"
Firelock76Or maybe I should paraphrase Admiral Farragut... "Damn the cholesterol! Full speed ahead!"
You could do better. "Damn the tournedos ... full eats ahead!" (Or 'burritos' ... what else could fit?)
Johnny
Ah Ha, my name at this site gives me away, but also establishes my credentials to enter this discussion. I had the privilege of dining on many name trains, most of them Santa Fe since I was in their middle management for 35 years.
I have ridden the IC between Chicago and New Orleans and enjoyed the fresh Louisana fare on the return trips. I have ridden the B&O Capitol Limited between Chicago and Washington many time and had several of their fine dishes. I also rode the Cal. Zephyr which had the dining fare of the Burlington, the D&RGW and Western Pacific. And a few short trips on the Missouri Pacific that I do not recall much about.
But the Fred Harvey meals prepared and served on all of the Santa Fe trains were always my favorites. So when I retired I decided to collect dining car artifacts, principally the authentic china, silver and menus from Santa Fe. Even though I could have 'picked up' some pf these while was employed (Engineerin Dept.) I had no interest in these artifacts then, just the wonderful food.
So yes I have the books mentioned and many menus, plus several recipies in my collection. I still ride Amtrak occasionally and note the substantial difference in the food and service. I also belong to AAPRCO, the association of private rail car owners and ride with them occasionally. Some very fine dining experiences there.
Lets hear more on this subject!!
Diningcar said: "...Lets hear more on this subject!!.."
MY Favorite was the SL-SF's 'Sunnyland' Breakfast while riding along side the Spring River (on the Thayer Sub). Seemed all my train rides on the Frisco 'hubbed ' thru Springfield, Mo. I did get to ride on the Birmingham to Memphis route on several trips. Food Service was always very good.
The Banana Nut Bread was good, but dry and I take full responsibility for that (left it in the oven about 5 minutes too long). I fixed that last night by having slice with French Vanilla pudding. Great combo.
Next will be the Corn Bread Pie from B&O which had this comment..."B&O passengers have been known to continue past their stations in order to have a second helping of this corn creation."
I rode the Santa Fe as an 11 year old in 1966 from Colorado to Kansas City but do not recall any meals. On our family train trips, we usually packed a meal in order to save $$$ but usually would have breakfast in the dining car.
It seems a person has to be of a certain age to enjoy dinner in the diner, my youthful experience was a number of collage years on the mighty New York, New Haven & Hartford between Boston and Stamford, CT. Most of the time aboard The Gilt Edge, 4 pm out of Boston mostly having baked scrod and baked beans, and, I had a New Haven charge account! Damn, but that was great and I thought it would be there forever. Also, the best club sandwich possible in the grill car of the Pennsylvania,s Senator(?) between Washington, DC & Stamford. I have the New Haven's cookbook, something like 29 different salads! It was great while it lasted.
We host a new years party every year, been doing it pretty much every year the 30 years we have been married. Every year is pretty much a theme. A few years ago we did Dinner on the Diner as a theme, made 15-18 dishes some from other cookbooks but many were from this book. It took a bit of work seelcting recipes that could be made in large quantites ahead of time and be something folks can select and heat during new years eve. I know we mad the split pea recipe from the Katy, the GN Spring vegitable soup, PRR Penipecure pie but all the others I made that year I have since forgotten. They all wer good based on the feedback of our guests and we didn't have much in left overs. Tough sometimes thinking about cooking a lot of this stuff as it was loaded with butter and cream and sugat and the like back in that era, nothing like how most people eat today.
I can sell you this, The NYC twentieth century ltd pancakes are really good, made them many times over the years, more work than bisquick but worth it, don't substitute cheap ingredients if you make them. The GN spring vegitable soup is also excellent use feesh vegs and stock from scratch if you want it really good.
You will also like James D Porterfield's "Dining By Rail, The History and Recipes of America's Golden Age of Railroad Cuisine," St, Martin's Griffin, 1993. I did a dinner for friends with the Lobster Newburg NYC as the main...to die for and maybe of.
Mike
Deggesty BaltACD Paul_D_North_Jr I too have the book (not sure of its date), but haven't yet tried the recipes. My wife says the ones she looked at were high in fat - e.g., lard, butter, whole eggs, etc. For example, the recipe above includes 2 cups shortening and 8 eggs. In recent years I've gotten more experience in the kitchen, so maybe someday soon . . . - Paul North. In the general public in the 50's and before, no one had ever heard of Closteral (either good or bad) and all the other things we are expected to be on the look out for in our diets. Ah, but I knew of cholesterol in the late fifties--my chemistry professor obtained a supply of gallstones from the local hospital, and the organic chemistry students extracted cholesterol from them. I do not recall that anybody was particularly concerned over the effect of "bad cholesterol" on our health, though.
Ah, but I knew of cholesterol in the late fifties--my chemistry professor obtained a supply of gallstones from the local hospital, and the organic chemistry students extracted cholesterol from them. I do not recall that anybody was particularly concerned over the effect of "bad cholesterol" on our health, though.
Just saw on the news today that cholesterol may be today's version of the 1970's saccharin scare, a bad rap for no real reason.
Jay
MikeFF You will also like James D Porterfield's "Dining By Rail, The History and Recipes of America's Golden Age of Railroad Cuisine," St, Martin's Griffin, 1993. I did a dinner for friends with the Lobster Newburg NYC as the main...to die for and maybe of.
But what a way to go.
Another book related to Santa Fe's Agreement with the Fred Harvey Company to provide the chefs and meals on its trains is The Harvey House Cookbook, first published in 1992. A large number of Harvey's recipes are describded. I have extra softcover editions plus the original hardcover version.
The second dish prepared from the "Dining in the Diner" was B&O's "Corn Bread Pie". The description of the recipe indicated passengers were known to stay on the diner rather than exit at their stop. I can see why.
This dish is pure comfort food on a -5 degree wind chill day. It is a combination of cornbread and ground beef with onions, peppers, chicken broth and spices. The ingredient which makes it different than the "taco cornbread" I make is a can of tomato soup. Simple, but it adds such a rich flavor.
This dish will disappear quickly.
I'd say, "Be right over, Ed!", but I guess that's become almost impossible tonight.I'm going to have to find my copy of this book!
Dining car experience: I rode in only one diner, pre-Amtrak, and I remember more about the car itself than I do the meal. It was 1970, and things were expensive for this college student. The trip was between Savanna and Chicago, and we caught BN's combined Empire Builder/North Coast Limited. The diner was a GN car named Lake Ellen Wilson (it must have been retired soon afterward, because it didn't get to Amtrak). I remember the name, because I'd just had a date with a cute girl named Ellen Wilson.Besides not getting the amount of food I'd wanted because I didn't have enough money for more, I also remember being required to fill out my own order form with a Big Sky Blue GN hard-lead pencil that was ridiculously small for even my hands. Other aspects of the trip were far more memorable in a positive sense.
CShaveRR Besides not getting the amount of food I'd wanted because I didn't have enough money for more, I also remember being required to fill out my own order form with a Big Sky Blue GN hard-lead pencil that was ridiculously small for even my hands. Other aspects of the trip were far more memorable in a positive sense.
Besides not getting the amount of food I'd wanted because I didn't have enough money for more, I also remember being required to fill out my own order form with a Big Sky Blue GN hard-lead pencil that was ridiculously small for even my hands. Other aspects of the trip were far more memorable in a positive sense.
Having the customer write their order on the check was the common procedure on all the railroad diners I ever had the opportunity enjoy - B&O, PRR, IC (on the Panama Limited), L&N, ACL and SAL. The practice did cut down on any argument as to whether something had been ordered or not.
To the unititiated, going into the dining car years ago was like visiting a foreign country, complete with its own protocols such a writing out one's order. In what restaurant does the customer do that? No wonder people used to find dining cars intimidating. That being said, once I learned those protocols I had some great dining experiences, such as the memorable breakfast, lunch, and dinner (Rocky Mountain rainbow trout almondine!) I enjoyed aboard the Rio Grande Zephyr in 1976, or my first ride in an Amtrak dining car in 1971 as we headed up the Hudson toward Cleveland one evening with entire tables full of NYC silverplated flatware gleaming and rattling, redolent of the late, Great Steel Fleet.
Though not a dining car, a ride in an Amtrak parlor car (the Molly Pitcher, for instance) about 1972 featured those supremely comfortable rotating lounge chairs in which you could be served a small hot meal by a friendly and most professional car steward.
To my mind, a train is best judged by and admired for its dining car. Eating microwaved food, no matter how tasty, just isn't the same thing at all, no matter how fast and new the train is. These days I see almost no dining cars in Europe and I find myself more appreciative of them than ever on the Lake Shore Limited and other Amtrak LD trains.
By the way, my personal chef (that's my wife) followed the above-mentioned NYC recipe for Lobster Newburg with similar delicious results. It's difficult to imagine railfans 50 years hence recalling with a sigh Veal Parmasean a la Acela microwave, let alone trying to re-create the dish.
In a typical brick & mortar restaurant, a mistake in the order is usually resolved by the manger OKing a replacement meal. On the railroad, it isn't that simple today, and probably wasn't that simple in the old days. When the passenger fills out his/her own meal ticket, the possibility of an error is (theoretically, anyway) reduced. There was always (and still is) the unspoken, but implied, suspicion that employees would try to steal from the Company.
I don't think any Amtrak service employs this practice today, but I have served older passengers who entered the diner and expected to fill out their own meal ticket. It's fairly obvious that their last LD train trip was a long, long time ago.
I'm not trying to justify this arcane practice; just telling it like it is.
After having written my requests for close to twenty years, I was taken aback momentarily when I sat down to breakfast one morning in North Dakota in the last monthe that the NP ran the North Coast Limited and the waiter asked me what I would have--and then I remembered having read that the NP dining car staff did not follow the customary practice followed by almost all of the other roads.
As to diner patrons starting to write not just their names and accomodations on the list given to first class passengers, I have seen younger people who are quite unfamiliar with Amtrak's custom of the attendant's asking what they will have to eat and then making the proper notations on the form--the diners start to note their desires.
And, there is the story of the man who had forgotten to put his glasses on before coming to the diner and asked the waiter to write his order, explaining that he did not have his glasses on. The waiter responded, "Bless you, Boss, I can't read either."
Since several posters have been raving about the B&O Corn Bread Pie how about posting the recipe for those of us not fortunate to own a copy of the book?
I have been assisting a friend with household duties and and am always on the lookout for new recipes since she has four English language students staying in the house and we do a lot of cooking!
Kurt Hayek
Kurt:I cannot find the book right now....I will post as quickly as it is located.
Hmm, it was in the kitchen Saturday.
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