I've noticed that a number of the domestic truckload carriers (J. B. Hunt, Schneider, England, etc.) will ship domestic containers both without wheelsets =and= as piggyback trailers with the wheelsets attached. Would anyone familiar with intermodal traffice management knowledge have an idea why a container that could be shipped double-stacked would move with the wheelsets attached?My first thought is that moving a container under a priority schedule with a wheelset would expidite handling through the destination rail terminal (i.e., a temporary shortage of your company's chassis at the destination wouldn't result in a delay in movement to the container's destination).
This is one of the mysteries of intermodal which is intriguing to me. Glad to see someone else is scratching their head.
Certain truckers do not have container ops and use trailers only. Others such as JBH is heavy on container use. Yet, over the weekend an NS eastbound intermodal thru Indiana had a considerable number of JBH trailers with trailer skirts (as mandated by California). Thus, these were actual trailers and not containers on chassis, unless the chassis are now being retrofitted.
Certain NS markets such as Croxton, NJ, and Rutherford, Pa support trailers while other markets such as Harrisburg, Pa are almost exclusively containers. I cannot figure it out...perhaps someone here can explain.
BTW...more and more UPS containers are being used. Going to miss those UPS trailers.
Ed
The reasoning behind shipping a can with wheels, TOFC, is due to the fact the destination point does not have a chassis to put the container on. J.B.Hunt chassis in particular are not interchangeable with other equipment. Plus storage of said equipment takes up a lot of real estate, which a lot of Intermodal facilities do not have. Been there, done that. Standing them up stacked like you may see years back, is out of the question, they are too flimsy and damage is very likely.
Take Care!
Frank
It's done to reposition their equipment in addition to moving freight. For example, a truck load carrier (that moves trailers/containers by road as well as by rail) may have a build up of wheelsets in a given area. So they ship them out to where they're needed by rail.
Ulrich It's done to reposition their equipment in addition to moving freight. For example, a truck load carrier (that moves trailers/containers by road as well as by rail) may have a build up of wheelsets in a given area. So they ship them out to where they're needed by rail.
The need to 'reposition' trailers for reloading can be a relentless problem for railroads, and trucking companies.
For van style trailers ( Dry and Reefers) a simple, expensive, dead head move is the solution.
For flat beds, it depends upon the style of the trailer; some can be stacked for trainsit (when shipped with landing gear and whees,) they can be loaded two on top of the trailer to be hooked up and pulled to destination.
For unladden container chassis, it becomes an issue of mode of transport. By rail they may be stacked as clearances permit. See linked photo @ http://www.chassisking.com/images/products/regular/product-20ft-slider-container-chassis-product-20ft-chassis-stacked-for-transport.jpg
Or,see linked photo for chassis on top of containers @
http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part3/images/jbhu900011.jpg
The following linked photo show how container chassis can be stood on end to save space in a large container handling facility @ http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SGumMdWe3AI/hqdefault.jpg
or this one @ http://chassissystems.com/Personal%20Web%20Page_files/image001.jpg
In this area we see several " Bare table' intermodal car moves a week- in either direction- on BNSF's Southern Transcon. They generally are 'type' moves: that can be all one type of cars are 'blocked' ,different styles of well cars, or TOFC types, on a train.
Lately, there have been bare table cars in lots 'blocked' onthe rear of merchandise trains. Or on the back of some COFC/TOFC moves they've had 'blocked' strings of bare tables on the rear of the train. It seems the planning of positioning of cars is 'evolving' (?).
Another thing that has been apparent, lately, is the rising number of COFC Reefer trailer moves; Reefers seem to be blocked in the trains, either on the head end or on the rear of the train. Even the Reefer Containers seem to be blocked in groups within the trains.
The one type of trail that seems to NOT being moved, at least in this area is loaded Flat Bed moves. Probably, because they are subject to some degree of 'shifting' enroute, and require adjusting straps and chains(?)
samfp1943Another thing that has been apparent, lately, is the rising number of COFC Reefer trailer moves; Reefers seem to be blocked in the trains, either on the head end or on the rear of the train. Even the Reefer Containers seem to be blocked in groups within the trains.
Sam,
You have confused me.
A trailer, reefer or otherwise, cannot move COFC. If it's a container on a chassis on a flatcar it's TOFC.
I need to know. Are you seeing more reefer containers moving on chassis? Or are you just seeing more reefer containers, moving without chassis, period?
Signed,
Confused in Antioch
Confused in Antioch:Sam I Am (not), but I will jump in. I am seeing on the NS quite a few refer containers either stacked or single in service. If single, these are generally on TOFC type trains. There are certain trains on NS which are almost all TOFC...either trailers, containers on chassis, or single stack containers without chassis.
I will attempt to make a few notes in the next couple of days with types, owner of container, train info, etc.
greyhounds samfp1943 Another thing that has been apparent, lately, is the rising number of COFC Reefer trailer moves; Reefers seem to be blocked in the trains, either on the head end or on the rear of the train. Even the Reefer Containers seem to be blocked in groups within the trains. Sam, You have confused me. A trailer, reefer or otherwise, cannot move COFC. If it's a container on a chassis on a flatcar it's TOFC. I need to know. Are you seeing more reefer containers moving on chassis? Or are you just seeing more reefer containers, moving without chassis, period? Signed, Confused in Antioch
samfp1943 Another thing that has been apparent, lately, is the rising number of COFC Reefer trailer moves; Reefers seem to be blocked in the trains, either on the head end or on the rear of the train. Even the Reefer Containers seem to be blocked in groups within the trains.
Ken(Greyhounds):
The COFC(Container Reefer Units) Reefers seem to be appearing more often in the Trains moving thru here..Have seen them both as TOFC ( occasionally) and stacked (COFC)
Bear in mind, first, I do not have a scanner, that I am not going out, and sitting by the tracks; but observing their passing, when I am stopped at highway-rail crossings in the area, or out walking. So it might be classed as a 'random sample'(?)
Currently,over the last several days, our traffic levels seem to have picked up in both directions. The link I generally observe is BNSF between Wichita and Wellington, Ks.; occasionally, on the line between Augusta and Winfield, or from Mulvane to Winfield ( This area was covered in on of the TRAINS map suplements listing 'traffic flows'. Unfortunately, I do not remember the issue information.
As to the descriptions, I think I am describing them as you indicated. TOFC is definitely a Highway Trailer(Van/reefer) on a permanent chassis. COFC describes exactly a 'van' type container ( be it a refrigerated, or a common, inclosed van style)
There seem to be more, and more refrigerated road trailer types (TOFC) moving in both directions ; brands like( to name some) KALLM, MARTEN, PRIME, Allied Shippers,well you get my drift. Not to mention, solid blocks of FedEX and UPS trailers(TOFC) within those trains, quite a variety of owners is represented there. Many times they seem to put several cars with 28' Pup trailers on the rear. (ie: Yellow/Roadway,UPS,etc)
There is a regular morning train, on the Transcon of COFC. Seems to be mostly UPS, and then a long string of TOFC cars on the rear. Usually running behind that within an hour or so is a solid TOFC train. These are all special handling, seeming to run at, or near track speed and an excess of power( 4 or 5 units on the head end).
I hope this answers your questions? Please PM if you need more information or anything else.
During this time of the year there are perishable grocery items from California and Mexico going to the midwest and northeast. Possibly meat and eggs and nothing are going back.
Interesting intermodal observations this morning on NS at Chesterton, In:
Eastbound NS had several Ashley Furniture trailers on board. The promotional graphics looked very good on that train, but of course I am biased.
Westbound NS 23Z had several refer containers, including 5 CE England.
More and more refer containers are moving on rail.
MP173 Interesting intermodal observations this morning on NS at Chesterton, In: Eastbound NS had several Ashley Furniture trailers on board. The promotional graphics looked very good on that train, but of course I am biased. Westbound NS 23Z had several refer containers, including 5 CE England. More and more refer containers are moving on rail. Ed
ED:
Just curious, but do you see many singled out ( non-stacked) export containers on trains up there? Every several days I've seen a COFC train with export can on it.eiither a 45' box, or two 20's singled in the wells of the cars.
It is funny that within the train there are single or double well cars with double stacked cans, pretty much the larger percentage of the train is single level cans, except towards the rear; they may have (10 or more cars double stacked. Those trains must be heavy(?) they seem to stretch to 10K feet(?) and generally, will have three units on the head and two DPU's
The 'premium trains' will have 4 or 5 units on the head end, no DPU's and moving at, or near track speed. The morning JBH train is one example, and the following COFC/TOFC , the same.
I am amazed at the number of Common Carriers that are loading their trailers TOFC, not to mention( the pretty much) 'refrigerated carriers [ie: Shippers, Kllm, England, Marten,Prime, etc] that some years back, would have been running team trucks, now are loading their trailers TOFC. And this is just on BNSF..
I'd bet that UPR has their own customer base in the trucking industry. Don't see many of those, even trackage rights out here.
Sam:Sometime, if you have a little extra time, you should take a look at the Chesterton In train cam (and scanner) on line You can really get a good look at how NS runs their intermodals. If you are interested and want to contact me you can, but the webcam is easily found on line.
Here is what I think about the single cans for export...and I might be wrong. My guess these are block swaps from NS or CSX in Chicago. NS and CSX runs single stackers due to restrictions on certain lanes. Even tho NS runs trains from point to point (say Croxton to Chicago) that train might be picking up blocks at an intermediate point. Typically the Croxton to Chicago trains are pretty hot UPS type trains, but they do send one for interchange to BNSF which will have domestics and internationals. I believe that train will also pickup other blocks en route to Chicago which are destined for BNSF. Without an NS operating plan, that is about the best that I can do based on watching these trains for a few months.
Regarding the movement from team drivers to trains...there is a severe driver shortage. The combination of CDL requirements (no drugs and a clean driving record) plus the tough lifestyle conditions have made it difficult to recruit and retain qualified drivers.
The Eastern European pool of drivers is pretty much maxed out. Trucking companies are recruiting hard for ex military personnel as they are somewhat used to the lifestyle (24 hour clock, time away from home, and ability to follow orders). Still...regardless of what is being said in the media most companies will tell you there is a shortage of QUALIFIED, trained labor today...not only in transportation but in manufacturing (which is slowly gaining traction).
The above paragraph thoughts are not my own, but what is being told to me by trucking companies...most recently a 600 tractor operation. When asked about intermodal, he indicated the service is not reliable enough yet for the customers he handles.
So, while intermodal is making considerable progress and will probably be a growth mode, probably the low hanging fruit has been picked. Railroads must tighten their operations and look to new markets for big growth.
MP173 Sam:Sometime, if you have a little extra time, you should take a look at the Chesterton In train cam (and scanner) on line You can really get a good look at how NS runs their intermodals. If you are interested and want to contact me you can, but the webcam is easily found on line. Here is what I think about the single cans for export...and I might be wrong. My guess these are block swaps from NS or CSX in Chicago. NS and CSX runs single stackers due to restrictions on certain lanes. Even tho NS runs trains from point to point (say Croxton to Chicago) that train might be picking up blocks at an intermediate point. Typically the Croxton to Chicago trains are pretty hot UPS type trains, but they do send one for interchange to BNSF which will have domestics and internationals. I believe that train will also pickup other blocks en route to Chicago which are destined for BNSF. Without an NS operating plan, that is about the best that I can do based on watching these trains for a few months. Regarding the movement from team drivers to trains...there is a severe driver shortage. The combination of CDL requirements (no drugs and a clean driving record) plus the tough lifestyle conditions have made it difficult to recruit and retain qualified drivers. The Eastern European pool of drivers is pretty much maxed out. Trucking companies are recruiting hard for ex military personnel as they are somewhat used to the lifestyle (24 hour clock, time away from home, and ability to follow orders). Still...regardless of what is being said in the media most companies will tell you there is a shortage of QUALIFIED, trained labor today...not only in transportation but in manufacturing (which is slowly gaining traction). The above paragraph thoughts are not my own, but what is being told to me by trucking companies...most recently a 600 tractor operation. When asked about intermodal, he indicated the service is not reliable enough yet for the customers he handles. So, while intermodal is making considerable progress and will probably be a growth mode, probably the low hanging fruit has been picked. Railroads must tighten their operations and look to new markets for big growth. Ed
ED; Thanks for the information. Your 'guess' pretty well matches my thoughts on the matter..composition of the export train.. I think your suggestion about the train eing made up from' blocks' out of different origins would make a lot of sense. Also would account for the random placement in the train of double stacked cans...Those trains always seem to be composed of all' well- style' cars.
As to the inclusion of 'road' style reefer trailers, When I retired in 01 TOFC was viewed with a mixed emotion. MY company used TOFC to position trailers for new areas out West; from our Mid-South location. We had tried to use it in 1980's, early 90's. Between Chicago and New Orleans.. It was a bust, the problem was that the trailers were regular road trailers with oak boards under the outer trailer rails, rather than spec'd for TOFC equipment. First problem was the 'handling' at the rail heads.. The forklift operators destroyed a number of trailers, they claimed it was the way they were loaded(?), then, when we did get trailers to Chicago or NOLA the local demurage killed profits..That lasted about 6-10 months, off and on.
In the late 1990's our company tried bringing over drivers from Ireland and England, and some Aussies. Those guys were terrific, tremendous work ethic and skilled. Then the Company got with a Driver-Broker' company that imported Puerto Rican drivers..It just did not work out, they were barely able to communicate with dispatch ( even had their own spanish speeking dispatchers,) worked ok til one of those guys had to leave their desk, and many of those drivers could not read or interpret a Road Map. Then they teamed the PR dirvers with a Driver-trainer, problem with that was the trainer had to sleep, then things would go 'off the rails'. Then the PR drivers were promised to be 'Home' every so often to PR. The Driver-Broker Company had to arrange for their flights, and Company Dispatch had to get the PR Driver to an Airport...That whole deal was an operational nightmare.
Back in the late 1990's the Driver Shortage was on the horizon; particularly, with the advent of the 'then new' CDL requirements(in 1992/93).
Driver Recruitment was chaotic, Companies 'pirated drivers', events at Truck Stops could find trucks abandoned by drivers for a 'new' job. Drivers would quit under loads, and abandon a truck, and load without warning, then get another job almost immediately. Recruiters would 'promise' a driver almost anything toi come work for their company. Every company was involved in recovery operations to get control back for their abandoned equipment, DNR (Did Not Run) Stats climbed at almost every turcking company. Profits were effected by that need to have to recover equipment and loads ( particularly expensive for refrigerated or perishible loads!)
Drivers were promised to get home on' regular' or short notices, or every week-end, or overnight during the week. All cut down on unit productivity, and driver availability. The came the 'Regional Driving Jobs' and the TOFC/COFC Rail Traffic was ' fitted' into that mode of operations.
Also, ED. Thanks for the tip on the Chesterton Web Cam..will check it out.
Interesting story about the driver recruitment.
My customer this week told me a similar story about his dispatchers. This company has Spanish speaking, Polish speaking, and several other Eastern European languages.
Driver recruiting is now spreading to Africa. Meanwhile here in the USA we have unemployable people who choose not to work because of conditions.
Note: The Chesterton webcam/scanner is addicting.
Does anyone else find it ironic that pilots are required to read, write and speak the English language proficiently yet any boob who can jam gears can drive trucks? Yes, I'm aware of the requirements for a CDL but it seems they are taken very loosely.
Norm
The thread seems to have drifted into a discussion of the driver shortage, which is certainly one reason more trucking companies are using intermodal. There are lots of other things driving the types of equipment and configurations we see on intermodal trains, some of which (repositioning, etc.) have been mentioned already. One common reason for only one level of containers in doublestack cars is heavy loads. This is especially common with 20-foot containers, which often are used for very dense, heavy freight. After putting two of those in a well the car may not be able to handle a third loaded container on top.
Also, don't forget that there can be different price/service levels for trailers and containers. Santa Fe pioneered the practice of running hotshot trains for UPS, USPS, LTL truckers, etc. These were 'trailer only' (i.e. no containers unless they were mounted on chassis); rates were much higher than for container/doublestack service, and the schedules were much faster as well (more than 24 hours faster between Chicago and California). I know this practice continued for quite a few years after the merger, but I can't speak to the current setup now that UPS is getting into containers. Back in the 90's at least, some other railroads had similar hot 'trailer only' trains: IC Chicago-NO and CSX Chicago-Atlanta for example. Trailers were and perhaps still are preferred for premium service because they can be loaded and unloaded much quicker at the terminals - thus later cutoff and earlier availability times. Also, no worry about chassis shortage at the destination. Of course, because they cannot be doublestacked, trailers (or containers on chassis) cost more, so they are not good for price-sensitive freight.
Finally, many truckers who don't have large, permanent, balanced flows in key intermodal lanes prefer to use only trailers in their fleet. First, it's easier to deal with a 'standardized' fleet rather than two different types of equipment. Second, trailers are more flexible, in that after being unloaded they can be reloaded anywhere. A container can only be reloaded to another intermodal-served point, which is often just back where it came from (unless you're prepared to 'steal' a chassis out of the local pool). Containers on chassis generally have a higher tare weight than a trailer, so can't accept as heavy a load. This makes them 'bad' for running pure highway moves because there's no intermodal savings to offset the lading disadvantage.
By the way, here is some standard industry terminology:
Trailer - wheels cannot be detached.
Container - Box which can be separated from the wheels/chassis.
TOFC - Trailers or containers on chassis
COFC - Containers moving without wheels/chassis
CNSF wrote the following post 13 hours ago:
"...The thread seems to have drifted into a discussion of the driver shortage, which is certainly one reason more trucking companies are using intermodal. There are lots of other things driving the types of equipment and configurations we see on intermodal trains, some of which (repositioning, etc.) have been mentioned already..."[snipped]
CNSF: Some might consider this interdependence on a "which came first aspect; the chicken or the egg"? I'd make the argument that it is the needs at the time, of an industry driving the response by both to be profitable.
Mike Haverty, then President of the Santa Fe RR was running their super C trains from Kansas City to the West Coast. At that time many truckers were running freight over the road to deliver. In 1988 or 1989 Mike Haverty, talked trucker J.B.Hunt into riding on a Super C bertween KC and LA. JB Hunt was hooked on the potential, some now consider them both to be modern day parents of the current intemodal transport.(*?)
Intermodal allowed us to effectively haul up to five trailers with one driver between Toronto and Montreal. Four trailers went to the rail while the fifth went down the road. The same driver would pickup the four trailers at the other end for final delivery to receivers. This effectively multiplied our drivers' productivity fivefold. Works great if volumes allow it!
MP173More and more refer containers are moving on rail.
As some of you know, reefer traiffic on the rails is a hot button issue for me. I believe, or more specifically I actually know, that there is tremendous added profit potential for the railroads in this high volume, long haul traffic.
Today I was able to watch a UP stack train begin its long journey west through Elmhurst, IL. I was pleasantly surprised by the significant number of reefer containers (and some reefer trailers) on the train. This isn't peak season for reefer traffic out of California or Washington. So that made it even more of a pleasant surprise.
Most were C R England containers. But there were also National Freight boxes and one Tiger Cool box. The few trailers were all carried in the wells of dual purpose intermodal cars. One was a "Navaho Intermodal" trailer. I didn't even know that Navaho had an intermodal operation, let alone a refrigerated intermodal operation.
It just gets better every day, perishable wise, on the rail.
greyhounds MP173 More and more refer containers are moving on rail. As some of you know, reefer traiffic on the rails is a hot button issue for me. I believe, or more specifically I actually know, that there is tremendous added profit potential for the railroads in this high volume, long haul traffic. Today I was able to watch a UP stack train begin its long journey west through Elmhurst, IL. I was pleasantly surprised by the significant number of reefer containers (and some reefer trailers) on the train. This isn't peak season for reefer traffic out of California or Washington. So that made it even more of a pleasant surprise. Most were C R England containers. But there were also National Freight boxes and one Tiger Cool box. The few trailers were all carried in the wells of dual purpose intermodal cars. One was a "Navaho Intermodal" trailer. I didn't even know that Navaho had an intermodal operation, let alone a refrigerated intermodal operation. It just gets better every day, perishable wise, on the rail.
MP173 More and more refer containers are moving on rail.
Greyhounds:
My guess is that each of the transcons have their own, more or less, 'captive' customers on certain routes(?) Since theis thread started, I have been paying closer attention to our local traffic BNSF T'con, between Mulvane and Wellington. Each of the TOFC or COFC inclusive trains (I observed) in the last several days have had a mix of reefers, either OTR trailers or reefer containers. The reefers that are loaded (can see indicator lights on the unit, when in operation) they seem to be in bunches ( for ease of in-route fueling(?). or singlely, if not running(?). Another interesting thing seems to be that I see trailers labeled variously (For Intermodal only...). Those trailers seem to be equipped with bars to surround the unit, possibly to prevent 'bumping' when being handled (On or Off).. An accessory that would add extra weight to the trailer tare wt.
See a lot of 'Alliance Shippers' and yesterday an eastbound rolled through with a block of about 20 BNSF mechanical reefer cars spliced in the middle. It was a mix of Dry type UPSZ containers and the reefer. and must have been a coulpe of dozen TOFC reefer trailers on the rear..My guess that it was at least 6 or 7 thousand foot train(?). And we have really seen an up tick in the traffic frequency in both directions, my perception(?)
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.