Sketchy news, but from what I can gather, stabbing on board train, suspect taken off at Niles MI.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/amtrak-train-stabbing-suspect-custody/story?id=27405109
This may be train 364, as Amtrak has no online status for that train due to a "service interruption" as of a few minutes ago.
This WGN link should be updated as the story unfolds:
http://wgntv.com/2014/12/05/report-multiple-people-stabbed-on-amtrak-train-in-michigan/
EDIT: At Midnight EST, ABC News now reporting that one of four victims was a conductor on the train. Not good. At least no fatalities are being reported.
Another source ..
http://www.wcvb.com/news/4-people-stabbed-on-amtrak-train-in-michigan/30088130?absolute=true
"The suspect was in custody Friday night and police said all four wounded people were taken to hospitals with varying degrees of injuries. Police were still trying to figure out what motivated the attack."
I'll say it. Now that we have states allowing elementary school teachers to carry firearms, perhaps it's time to extend the same privilege to railroaders, if they so choose.
Thoughts?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
It amazes me how many people think that more guns equals less violence.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet It amazes me how many people think that more guns equals less violence.
Hate to argue with you brother, but the Post Office certainly thought so when they armed their railroad postal employees back in the Twenties after a rash of mail robberies. Marines were put in the cars as well with an admonition from the Secretary of the Navy Edmund Denby: "I want the mails to get through or a dead Marine in the mailcar!"
The mails got through.
Now if some folks think guns are a bit much, how about supplying train crews with a good assortment of non-lethal weapons? Tasers, stun-guns, Mace, pepper spray, things like that, and giving them some good solid training and guidelines on when and how to use them. We're only kidding ourselves if we think they won't be needed at some times.
Firelock76 Phoebe Vet It amazes me how many people think that more guns equals less violence. Hate to argue with you brother, but the Post Office certainly thought so when they armed their railroad postal employees back in the Twenties after a rash of mail robberies. Marines were put in the cars as well with an admonition from the Secretary of the Navy Edmund Denby: "I want the mails to get through or a dead Marine in the mailcar!" The mails got through.
Today, the USA is swarming with postal carriers who do not carry guns or have Marine escorts. The mail still gets through.
I hate to hyjack the thread, but I have been to too many incidents where someone shot through a door because they thought they heard someone on the porch late at night. Too many incidents where someone shot into the woods behind their house because they thought someone was spying on them. To many children who found the gun. Too many domestic incidents where an intoxicated family member used his gun to settle an argument. Yesterday, here in charlotte, a person shot several rounds into a car because the driver blew the horn at him.
I will believe that the ever loosening laws concerning where guns can be carried and the circumstances governing their use are about the second amendment when they pass a law allowing assault weapons and concealed carry in the visitors gallery of the legislature. Until that day I will continue to believe they are just pandering to a large campaign donor who controls a big block of voters.
I am now done with this argument. I know that you and I will never agree on this subject.
narig01From the Detroit Free Press http://on.freep.com/1CP6Z4E Rgds IGN
IGN (narig01) Tried to heat up you link but all I could get was a Free Press website, with very little info, and a stream of pop-up adds.
While looking for yourt site I stumbled onto this one with photois from in the car, and a lot of details on what happened. @ http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/05/multiple-people-stabbed-amtrak-train-headed-detroit/19981941/
One photo shows the assailent laying in the car's floor, face down, and handcuffed. Can find nowhere with his identity???? The Train's Conductor was one of the individuals stabbed;four were transferred to area hospitals.
Comments at the end of the article from Face Book postings add interesting commentary: "Even at one point when The Salvation Army came with some refreshments for the passengers."
I guess the assailant's reasons for the attack will be coming at a later time.
I hope the injured will be alright. As a response to a couple of other posters on this Thread...My response is, This is a good reason for permitting individuals to practice 'open' or 'concealed' carry.
OK Phoebe Vet, we can disagree without being disagreeable! 'Nuff said!
On THAT we agree.
We have seen what a mess the TSA has made of air travel. I don't want to see that level of security to board Amtrak trains. I do believe that Amtrak should allow its conductors to carry both pepper spray and or mace while on duty. I have traveled Amtrak when the conductor has had to remove an unruly passenger more than once. The Federal Government should bans ALL weapons from Amtrak trains including knives and personal pepper spray and mace by passengers. I believe that railroad conductors had the authority to arrest unruly passengers before Amtrak; does that exist today?
You know, Amtrak COULD hire former NFL linebackers as conductors. I don't think anyone would give those guys any trouble!
Size DOES matter, as they say.
aricat We have seen what a mess the TSA has made of air travel. I don't want to see that level of security to board Amtrak trains. I do believe that Amtrak should allow its conductors to carry both pepper spray and or mace while on duty. I have traveled Amtrak when the conductor has had to remove an unruly passenger more than once. The Federal Government should bans ALL weapons from Amtrak trains including knives and personal pepper spray and mace by passengers. I believe that railroad conductors had the authority to arrest unruly passengers before Amtrak; does that exist today?
I don't believer Amtrak Conductors have police powers, however, they have the power to request local police meet the train at a specified point and have them remove a 'unruly' passenger - that specified point is not necessarily a regular station stop.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Amtrak policemen are a fairly common sight on the Pacifc Surfliners. One of the regulars is about the size of an NFL linebacker and a very pleasant fellow as well.
erikem Amtrak policemen are a fairly common sight on the Pacifc Surfliners. One of the regulars is about the size of an NFL linebacker and a very pleasant fellow as well.
I'm certain Amtrak Police would be MUCH more welcome than TSA.
Norm
I notice in a later report that the cops took the suspect down with a stun gun. Nicely done.
I really like how they quote passengers in adjacent cars that know nothing of what actually took place.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/06/amtrak-train-stabbing-michigan/20000895/
Lightweight body armor for the most vital areas of the employees of AMTRAK is a way to keep them safer.
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Will somebody be calling for metal detectors for every entrance and exit of the train-bus stations along the AMTRAK routes?
You're a former officer, right? There are many people in law enforcement who would like to be the only ones with guns. A logical-enough position -- it would make their job safer.
However, they are not in law enforcement to be safe, but to protect the public. Unfortunately, they can't be everywhere at once, and sometimes criminals, who would also like to be the only people with guns, get there first. Then, it's handy for citizens to have guns of their own.
The National Rifle Association can tell you -- which I suspect you know for yourself -- how many criminal plans are disrupted every year by citizens with guns.
actual facts prove you wrong about too many people carrying guns causing
more crime. States with carry laws have half the crime--look it up
STEVEL actual facts prove you wrong about too many people carrying guns causing more crime. States with carry laws have half the crime--look it up
Ah, yes, "An armed society is a polite society," as Robert A. Heinlein said.
About 5 minutes ago -- local news has apparently interviewed suspect Darnell Williams, "film at 11"... the comments are already rolling in.
https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter16/photos/a.456606681129.240561.173450631129/10152666647181130/?type=1
dakotafred Phoebe Vet It amazes me how many people think that more guns equals less violence. You're a former officer, right? There are many people in law enforcement who would like to be the only ones with guns. A logical-enough position -- it would make their job safer. However, they are not in law enforcement to be safe, but to protect the public. Unfortunately, they can't be everywhere at once, and sometimes criminals, who would also like to be the only people with guns, get there first. Then, it's handy for citizens to have guns of their own. The National Rifle Association can tell you -- which I suspect you know for yourself -- how many criminal plans are disrupted every year by citizens with guns.
You are spouting NRA propaganda. Yes I am a retired police officer. Many years ago, I was also an NRA member. I carried a gun on and off duty for 22 years. Now I do not even own one. I never said no one but the police should carry guns, and I do not know a single police officer who feels that way. I am in favor of laws that control the sales of guns. There are people in our society who should not be allowed to be armed. The current laws make it impossible to track the sale of firearms to those people. While a licensed gun dealer must do background checks and cannot sell to felons and mentally ill people, there is no way to prevent YOU from selling him one. As long as you believe the paranoid delusion that any record keeping is the first step toward total confiscation, no reasonable controls will be passed.
A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people — more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.
Japan, on the other hand, had only .6 guns per 100 people and .06 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people, making it the country with both the fewest guns per capita and the fewest gun-related deaths.
They concluded that more guns do not make people safer.
According to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there are approximately 81,300 nonfatal injuries and 31,672 deaths every year involving guns. That works out to about 308 shootings and 86 deaths every day.
Dave,
I have some sheriff's deputy friends who would strongly disagree with your position. That said, you are entitled to your opinion. OTOH, before someone complains to the moderators, I don't think this is the proper venue to be discussing gun control.
Norm48327 Dave, I have some sheriff's deputy friends who would strongly disagree with your position. That said, you are entitled to your opinion. OTOH, before someone complains to the moderators, I don't think this is the proper venue to be discussing gun control.
It's not.
Just so you know where I'm coming from I'm an NRA Life member and have owned guns for 40-plus years. A gun control discussion doesn't belong here. We're not likely to change each others minds and more likely to PO each other.
That being said, anyone remember my earlier suggestion of non-lethal weapons training for Amtrak personnel? Any ideas along those lines?
A bullet, in a dense environment like a train car, is not going to stop in the original target. Even a police officer would be reluctant to shoot into a crowd. Pepper spray and Mace have a tendency to get many unintended people in a dense environment. All of those people need to be treated ASAP by medical people. Tasers are quite effective at close range but it is very important that they only be used in defense. To many people, police officers included, use them on people who have made them angry or who are not complying with orders. It is not a cattle prod, it is a usually non lethal weapon. I have no objection at all to TRAINED members of the crew carrying them.
Firelock76,
ideas along those lines, what's so special about Amtrak personel? I would expect a trolley motorman to experience far scarier encounters with dangerous passengers, in fact a friend of mine was a SEPTA bus driver, Charles Kolbeck, I hope I spelled his name correctly, whom a passenger stabbed to death, and I knew another trolley operator who had been stabbed, in the late 1970's. In both cases, the fatal one according to witnesses, the non-fatal one according to the victim, all the motorman had done to provoke the attack was to ask the passenger to pay regular fare.
Shortly after the fatal stabbing SEPTA started installing several variations of partitions to shield trolley and bus operators. Nowadays most light rail vehicles have the operator's station completely walled off, but even those with more traditional motorman's seats, such as Boston and Philadelphia, have much more substantial barriers than in days of yore. It would seem the trend has been, as Andrew Falconer suggested above, to provide armor, not arms.
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
Wizlish About 5 minutes ago -- local news has apparently interviewed suspect Darnell Williams, "film at 11"... the comments are already rolling in. https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter16/photos/a.456606681129.240561.173450631129/10152666647181130/?type=1
The above linked site is a report from a Michigan TV Station WDNU,( inclusive of FB comments on the end of the ariticle) on Saturday night, referencing the assailant Darnell Williams.
Drilling down in the Comments on the FB posts, at the end of that linked article; there is a quote from William's 89 year old grandmother about Williams' 10 years of military service, and his granmother's comment [paraphrased] "...He just wasn't quite right.." "... and he had gone to the Saginaw(Mi) VA for help(?)..."
There is no indication of a diagnosis or of continued visits for VA treatment. I have no idea of the treatment available at that location. VA facilities differ in services they can offer Vets.
The diagnosis of PTSD can be problematic, and definitely individualized, as each person is effected by their life experiences, and it is definitely, not to be cured in one or two visits with professional staff members.
Darnell Williams is currently in the Berrien County Jail on $1 million Bail. Here is a linked story@ http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/06/suspect-charged-amtrak-stabbings/20008087/
Certainly, hope that the vicitms in this incident will recover. And hopefully, a judge or court wil order some kind of investigative (psychiatric) treatment(?) for Darnell Williams to determine what caused him to go on the attack.
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