jeffhergertThey have some good drivers, and some not so good. I haven't seen that driver since then. He had driven me on several occasions for the previous two or three weeks. His driving was OK. They don't seem to hold onto drivers, at least the new ones, for very long. Jeff
I haven't seen that driver since then. He had driven me on several occasions for the previous two or three weeks. His driving was OK. They don't seem to hold onto drivers, at least the new ones, for very long.
Jeff
One thing I discovered - it is much easier getting contract van drivers to locations on single track subdivisions that it is on multiple track subdivisions.
On single track, the pick and/or drop off locations are normally well defined at either end of the passing sidings. On multiple track territory the specific location can be just about anywhere - normally with the head end at a road crossing but not always.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Backshop Another necro-thread risen from the dead for no reason. Zombies need love too! re: Jeffs van driver Van drivers that CSX's contractor used for crew transportation were not known for their intellectual abilities. Am guessing UP's contracted van drivers are of the same ilk. We did have one van driver that had retired from CSX as a tower operator - he did know where to go and how to get there, then his physical condition deteriorated and he had to move to a nursing home.
Backshop Another necro-thread risen from the dead for no reason.
Zombies need love too!
re: Jeffs van driver
Van drivers that CSX's contractor used for crew transportation were not known for their intellectual abilities. Am guessing UP's contracted van drivers are of the same ilk.
We did have one van driver that had retired from CSX as a tower operator - he did know where to go and how to get there, then his physical condition deteriorated and he had to move to a nursing home.
They have some good drivers, and some not so good.
Long time ago this was posted: mudchicken, part of post “November 5, 2014”
Last time I rode our train to Tupper Lake (deadhead), I shot the mileposts with my tablet GPS. The readings need some refinement, but I'm hoping that the information will find its way into some documentation, as we are truly "in the middle of nowhere" sometimes.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Cotton Belt MP104Comment confirmed here about FRA map inaccuracy. At one time (think she is retired) I was friends w/FRA official. I informed of serious errors (FRA map) and she got it changed. Later she referred me to the "FRA map desk". No reply..... when errors are sent there. My rationale for corrections to the FRA official: If an accident happens, data needs be correct to avoid waste of time for response to a wrong location. Once a RR suicide: crew didn't know how to tell (except MP) EMT's did not know that lingo and both had a hard time finding each other. I carried the engine crew after the incident and they shared this fact of confusion. Additionally the FRA map has OLD MoP MP's on current FRA maps. These MP's Don't Exist. UP ETT's do NOT list them. Again go to FRA map and call out the MoP MP listed on FRA map......nobody has a clue where that is. That track/MP# does not exist. Abandoned track and some locations are in farm fields are at MoP MP locations. endmrw0801231143
At one time (think she is retired) I was friends w/FRA official. I informed of serious errors (FRA map) and she got it changed. Later she referred me to the "FRA map desk". No reply..... when errors are sent there.
My rationale for corrections to the FRA official: If an accident happens, data needs be correct to avoid waste of time for response to a wrong location.
Once a RR suicide: crew didn't know how to tell (except MP) EMT's did not know that lingo and both had a hard time finding each other. I carried the engine crew after the incident and they shared this fact of confusion.
Additionally the FRA map has OLD MoP MP's on current FRA maps. These MP's Don't Exist. UP ETT's do NOT list them. Again go to FRA map and call out the MoP MP listed on FRA map......nobody has a clue where that is. That track/MP# does not exist. Abandoned track and some locations are in farm fields are at MoP MP locations. endmrw0801231143
I was peripherally involved when CSX was creating the MilePost data base for the CSX System. Each railraod entity the was incorporated into CSX each had their own MilePost designations - that made sense to that Independent railroad.
In creating the CSX MilePost data base the Cardinal rule was that there COULD NOT BE IDENTICAL mile post designations within the data base. Every record in the data base had to be unique.
The pattern that was used, former B&O locations had mile posts that starte with the letter B and up to two qualifying letters and up to 3 numeric positions. Former ACL locations started with A and additional qualifiers. Former SAL locations started with S and a additional qualifier and upto four numerics. With the additional former railroads the alphabetics start going all over the place.
To the extents possible - previously existing railroad milepost numbers remained in the transition to CSX, with the letter prefixes creating the uniqueness where the numerics of different subdivisions conflicted.
I have no idea what form of constraints the FRA has on their mile post designations or how they manage things among all the existing carriers - both Class 1 and all the other classes of carriers.
Everybody has their own computer system - and computers do not handle duplicates very well.
Comment confirmed here about FRA map inaccuracy.
and the GIS data entry people are no brighter bulbs in the box than the van drivers.
(The federal FRA GIS mapping is frequently wrong ... and I've encountered major OOPS with GIS from BNSF and CSX because the people doing the data input are not railroaders and are frequently guessing instead of verifying their work....button-pushers )
BackshopAnother necro-thread risen from the dead for no reason.
Norm48327 GPS is handy, but lots of drivers forget it is also necessary to look out the window.
GPS is handy, but lots of drivers forget it is also necessary to look out the window.
A few weeks ago we and another crew were being transported by contract van down to Omaha. The driver was using his GPS. I was sitting behind him, watching his GPS device. It was going to take us the long way through downtown, plus one that doesn't actually get us to where we need to go. We go to a place called 20th Street, but it's actually above the physical 20th Street. There is no access there, you have to access down about 14th Street and take railroad access roads. GPS doesn't know that.
When I saw what GPS was going to do, I told him to stay on I-80, don't get off and take I-480. I told him 5 times. Others also told him to stay on I-80.
Needless to say, he took I-480. He followed the GPS, but we still had to direct him to the proper entrance after telling him the GPS' 20th Street wasn't the railroad's 20th Street. He finally seemed to understand.
Another necro-thread risen from the dead for no reason.
I have owned 3 different GPS units, all manufactured by Garmin. My first was a Garmin nuvi 1300 - it did not give any visual representation or warning of railroad tracks.
Next I got a Garmin nuvi 57 - it did give a pictoral representation of a railroad track.
Finally I have gotten a Gramin Drive Smart 61 - it does not give any pictorial representation of a railroad, but it does give a warning sound with the display at the top of the device and a countdown in feet to the tracks.
Idiots will be idots no matter how we try to idiotproof society.
Good question . We have a '' RAIL CART '' and have a great time on the old railway tracks. Good connection points would be helpful. AND. For you idiots taking cars down the tracks. Go Home.
CSSHEGEWISCHWhatever happened to reading an actual map?? A little advance planning goes a long way and I would find the screen on a Garmin contraption to be a distraction.
Just purchased a new vehicle - in transfering 'stuf' between vehicles I threw away several AAA Trip-tiks and several maps that had ridden around in the old vehicle for 15 years and 360K miles. Have been GPS guided since about 2012. I do know the difference between a road and a railroad - no matter how insistant the GPS is with it's TURN LEFT (or right) instruction.
I tried the Verizon Navigator, does show some railroad routes, but they want $5.00 a month for it.
The GPS in my 2012 MoPar shows rail lines. I belive the mapping is provided by NavTech.
mudchickenAll USGS maps (Still available in print, but the imagery is free online = "current" and historical in pdf form) are used for in the construction process is for recon and some large macro projects like figuring approximate drainage areas for hydraulics, otherwise surveyors are performing topographic (topo) surveys for the engineers. The level of precision and timeliness isn't there for a responsible engineering project.
As explained to me, a lot of the Topo maps were generated from photogrammetric surveying. I seem to recall some of this going on in my home county in the fifties, oddly enough at night, with bright parachute flares being dropped along the flight path. The problem with photogrammetry was that the contours were often derived from the tops of vegetation, which yielded some varying errors on top of the uncertainty in the photogrammetric processing. Of course, in my business, that was a safety margin when doing radiolink studies.
One thing about the topo maps on Acme Mapper - they are all over the place, date-wise. But that can be a good thing!
If you follow a given rail line over some distance, you may find reference to several different predecessor railroads (assuming there are some), as well as some lines that no longer exist. Topo maps also often show "former" / abandoned routes.
Another handy feature is the ability to "mark" a spot - you can mark a location on the satellite or the topo, then change map types, and the pointer will still be there. That can be useful when running down former lines, so you can see what modern landmarks exist around the former route.
As you can guess, I use Acme Mapper a lot.
If you use an Android smartphone (or tablet with GPS) then OsmAnd is pretty good for rail lines - http://osmand.net/ https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand&hl=en_GB . It can be used 'live' online, but I always download the maps offline so I don't need a constant connection when using it.
The free app allows 10 map downloads, and the paid version (OsmAnd+) is unlimited - the US maps seem to be state by state, so that's 10 states for free.
It's not as slick as TomTom, Garmin etc. for turn-by-turn navigation but you can't beat the price....
Here's one way to do it:
Use http://mapper.acme.com/ to find the general area you're interested in, then click on the "Topo" button in the upper right corner to view the USGS maps (at possibly a much larger scale). Use the USGS map to find the rail line or facility that you're interested in, or is closest to you; then use the Lat. - Long. data from the box at the lower right (e.g., N 40 51.616' W 75 16.562') to input into your GPS.
- Paul North.
UlrichOne can't blindly rely on the GPS.. look out the windows too. If your GPS doesn't jive with reality, assume the GPS is wrong and go with what you see outside (to avoid running into trains or through barns).
Sounds like you don't deal with the i-Zombies* too terribly often. They are virtually indistinquishable from the overly reliant button-pushers with their GPS/GIS brainboxes.
(*)Any time we work in a high pedestrian area anymore, we have to bring cones, barricades or sawhorses with us to protect us from them. College campus areas are nuts to work around.
One can't blindly rely on the GPS.. look out the windows too. If your GPS doesn't jive with reality, assume the GPS is wrong and go with what you see outside (to avoid running into trains or through barns).
My Google Map app on smartphone gives great reference for railroads.
Mudchicken...your knowledge of the industry never ceases to amaze me. Thanks for your contributions.
Ed
Norm
Keith Schmidt KC9LHK You don’t bring nothin with you here and you can’t nothin back, I ain’t never seen a hearse with a luggage rack. George Strait Check out Flickr Train Photo Page
tree68 I suppose mistaking a turn by a few feet is better than driving "ILS" at highway speeds using your GPS to tell you you're still on the road because you can't even see the lines due to the fog... That may be an "old wive's tale" about truckers, but I wouldn't doubt it's happened... I find the nav system in my tablet tells me to turn a few feet before I actually reach the intersection. Of course, common sense and looking at the road tell me that I shouldn't yank the wheel at the exact moment the box tells me to turn, but I can see folks doing so.
I suppose mistaking a turn by a few feet is better than driving "ILS" at highway speeds using your GPS to tell you you're still on the road because you can't even see the lines due to the fog...
That may be an "old wive's tale" about truckers, but I wouldn't doubt it's happened...
I find the nav system in my tablet tells me to turn a few feet before I actually reach the intersection. Of course, common sense and looking at the road tell me that I shouldn't yank the wheel at the exact moment the box tells me to turn, but I can see folks doing so.
Truckers using civilian grade GPS get themselves into deep doo doo by paying more attention to the GPS instruction than the highway signage - 'Clearance 12 Feet' - 'High Center Railroad Crossing' etc. etc. etc.
There is a new Distribution Center that has been built near one of my carriers low clearance overhead bridge's. Weekly or more often we get a call from the local authorities about a truck wedged under the overpass - the most common explanation proffered - 'I was following my GPS.'
carnej1 cacole The sole purpose of a consumer GPS device is to help you find the right ROADWAY route to a location, not how to drive down a railroad track. Showing railroads would be courting disaster by people turning down them thinking they are a highway. Some GPS NAV systems definately show rail lines, the one installed on my phone does... In the last decade or so as GPS in vehicles has become common I have seen several news stories of motorists blaming their Nav system for getting their vehicle stuck on railroad tracks. In many of these cases it seems that the GPS system was telling them to turn onto a road running parallel to the tracks and they drove onto the tracks by mistake (i.e driver error). In one case around here (Southeastern New England) a trucker managed to get his rig highsided (wheels stuck off the ground) on a rail line and tried to blame his GPS. Luckily the track in question was not a busy mainline.....
cacole The sole purpose of a consumer GPS device is to help you find the right ROADWAY route to a location, not how to drive down a railroad track. Showing railroads would be courting disaster by people turning down them thinking they are a highway.
The sole purpose of a consumer GPS device is to help you find the right ROADWAY route to a location, not how to drive down a railroad track. Showing railroads would be courting disaster by people turning down them thinking they are a highway.
Some GPS NAV systems definately show rail lines, the one installed on my phone does...
In the last decade or so as GPS in vehicles has become common I have seen several news stories of motorists blaming their Nav system for getting their vehicle stuck on railroad tracks. In many of these cases it seems that the GPS system was telling them to turn onto a road running parallel to the tracks and they drove onto the tracks by mistake (i.e driver error).
In one case around here (Southeastern New England) a trucker managed to get his rig highsided (wheels stuck off the ground) on a rail line and tried to blame his GPS. Luckily the track in question was not a busy mainline.....
Complaint: formerly, it was possible to strike through a word and leave it; it is no longer possible to do so.
Johnny
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
ACY I don't think USCGS maps are available in printed form now. Some of the last ones I got showed no evidence of such landforms as existing RR cuts from abandoned RR lines. It's been a long time since then, so I don't remember specific maps with this problem. IMHO, a map should show what is there. Maps are used for more than just driving from here to there. They show historians what used to be there, and indications of such things as abandoned RR's show why there is (for example) an existing cut or fill where no RR currently runs. If we rely on maps with incomplete data, I can imagine problems for those involved in construction projects. Tom
I don't think USCGS maps are available in printed form now. Some of the last ones I got showed no evidence of such landforms as existing RR cuts from abandoned RR lines. It's been a long time since then, so I don't remember specific maps with this problem. IMHO, a map should show what is there. Maps are used for more than just driving from here to there. They show historians what used to be there, and indications of such things as abandoned RR's show why there is (for example) an existing cut or fill where no RR currently runs. If we rely on maps with incomplete data, I can imagine problems for those involved in construction projects.
Tom
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