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America's railroads: The "poster boy" for graffiti vandalism.

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Posted by Kyle on Thursday, July 31, 2014 8:51 PM

You guys have taken this way to far.  Shooting to kill with AK-47 is way to much.  I was thinking more along the lines of shooting a vandal in the arm with a .22.  And how do you know they are not damaging equipment, that could  cause a derailment that kills people or they are really spraying highly flammable liquid on the car and are going to light it?  Or those spray cans are bombs?  How about people placing ties on the track that cause a derailment and kill people.

 I might have been wrong about a few facts (I will start to verify facts people tell me).

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Posted by Kyle on Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:02 PM

zugmann

jimnorton

Graffiti on any infrastructure sends a message that such is tolerated.  On the railroads the invitation is there.  The notion even exists that if the tagger leaves the data visible the defacement is agreeable.

Kyle gets it and emphasizes a very important point.  Let the terrorist follow the lead of the graffiti vandal and the nation's railways are extremely vulnerable to an attack.   Security is great if its measured by how many photographers and joggers are caught.  Yet, the industry continues to be outsmarted by a legion of illiterate artist entering and leaving the property at will.

Good job Kyle.

Fine.  Fence in all ROWs and yards.  Make watching trains/photographing them illegal. Shut down railfan websites. 

Doesn't address the thousands of private sidings, but it is a start, I guess.

This discussion is an exercise in pure silliness, as usual, with our favorite troll Kyle. .

Since you did not delete the content of your post, it has been reported because you violated the forum policies of name calling and personal attacks.

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Posted by gardendance on Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:20 PM

Captain Nitpick to the rescue

Murphy Siding

gardendance:  I said "vandal approaches me with a spray can with bad intents"  That to me means said boogie man was going to do me bodily harm.  

You were vague, didn't adequately define the bad intents. A normal prudent person would assume the vandal's bad intents were to use the spray can to spray paint on property
PNWRMNM

If you or anyone else cares to find the facts, this is the easiest way to do it. I am 99.999% sure there is no jurisdiction in the US where shooting evil doers with spray paint cans will be determined to be justifiable homocide.

It'll be tough, but not impossible to kill evil doers by shooting them with spray paint cans. And please to spell chek homicide. Homocide seems to be mixing Greek and Latin to form a new word for suicide.

Kyle

zugmann

This discussion is an exercise in pure silliness, as usual, with our favorite troll Kyle. .

Since you did not delete the content of your post, it has been reported because you violated the forum policies of name calling and personal attacks.

Why would you expect Zugmann to have deleted the content of his post? I don't see where you asked him to. Also how does him calling you his favorite count as a personal attack?

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Posted by Kyle on Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:25 PM

gardendance

Captain Nitpick to the rescue

Murphy Siding

gardendance:  I said "vandal approaches me with a spray can with bad intents"  That to me means said boogie man was going to do me bodily harm.  

You were vague, didn't adequately define the bad intents. A normal prudent person would assume the vandal's bad intents were to use the spray can to spray paint on property
PNWRMNM

If you or anyone else cares to find the facts, this is the easiest way to do it. I am 99.999% sure there is no jurisdiction in the US where shooting evil doers with spray paint cans will be determined to be justifiable homocide.

It'll be tough, but not impossible to kill evil doers by shooting them with spray paint cans. And please to spell chek homicide. Homocide seems to be mixing Greek and Latin to form a new word for suicide.

Kyle

zugmann

This discussion is an exercise in pure silliness, as usual, with our favorite troll Kyle. .

Since you did not delete the content of your post, it has been reported because you violated the forum policies of name calling and personal attacks.

Why would you expect Zugmann to have deleted the content of his post? I don't see where you asked him to. Also how does him calling you his favorite count as a personal attack?

Zugmann called me a troll, which I consider to be a personal attack.  I will let the moderators handle it.

Apperantly the TSA thinks that spray cans can be used as weapons, which is why they ban them on flights.  You could easily blind someone and then attack them.

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Posted by PNWRMNM on Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:37 PM

Kyle,

Nice twist on my unclear language.

If you shoot anyone you have used lethal force. You are going to have a very difficult time convincing a jury that you were in fear for your life if their only weapon was a can of spray paint. You are almost certain to be convicted of assault if he lives, and murder if he dies. You should also expect to loose in civil court regardless of whether he lives or dies.

I sincerely hope that is clear enough.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:19 PM

.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, August 1, 2014 1:33 AM

It seems like the majority thinks that shooting actual bullets in the general direct of a vandal/potential terrorist is a bad idea.  So now for the improved idea:  shot at them with blanks.  Since you can't kill anyone by shooting them with a blank it's not considered deadly force.  Don't tell the public that your using blanks, or they wouldn't care about you and your gun and the idea won't work.  The RRs could also try a few water cannons that would also ruin their "art".

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Posted by gardendance on Friday, August 1, 2014 6:45 AM

Kyle, again your expressing opinion as fact. Although it's difficult to kill someone by shooting them with a blank, it's not impossible. A blank is just about the same as a firecrcacker, it's the explosive part of the bullet which would propel a piece of metal out of the gun. That explosive force still has to go somewhere, and in this case it's getting channeled down the gun's barrel, so it's more dangerous than a firecracker. Fireman Freddy told us in grade school that firecrackers are dangerous, it's easy to conclude that a focused firecrackerlike explosion should also be dangerous.

And it's on the internet, so it must be true

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/574604 Can you kill someone using blank ammunition?

Actor Jon-Erik Huxman died from accidentally shooting himself in the head with a gun loaded with blanks during filming of the TV show Cover Up. That was at extreme close range, of course, and the shot was to the head. The wound was caused by wadding exiting the gun's barrel.

...

Forget all the particulars mentioned above. If you do not know anything about guns and blanks and have to ask...Can a blank kill you? The answer is yes-PERIOD! This answer comes from a person who has reloaded ammo for 41 years and has been a police armor and firearms instructor.The powder alone can blow a hole in your skull,leg,hand or whatever is in line with the barrel of the gun. Also, guns,gun parts,dirt,powder or whatever can blow apart,fly,burn or "kill your dumb ass". Even oil or grease used to clean or lubricate the gun can "burn ... ya". I did not want to get to technical or sarcastic but there is a real danger even with air guns.

http://io9.com/5972313/why-a-gun-loaded-with-blanks-can-still-kill-you

because they're used for show, and because the show has to be impressive, blanks are sometimes loaded with more gunpowder than regular bullets. 

You're also inconsistent. You cite  the TSA thinking spray cans to be dangerous, yet won't give blanks the same credit.

Keep this up and I may need to drop you down further. You're getting awfully close to 6th favorite.

Patrick Boylan

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 1, 2014 7:14 AM

.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by jimnorton on Friday, August 1, 2014 9:19 AM

Wow.   Kyle actually is offering up ideas here only to be ragged.  Hint:  Quit letting your women boss you and this urge to belittle Kyle and your fellow man via the internet will greatly diminish!

There is nothing illegal about security employees firing warning shots. 

Yet, based on the logic presented here It would seem that a verbal warning would also be frowned upon.  After all, this also might make the vandals mad enough to shoot back.  Recently, a Florida graffiti writer was tased to death.  That must be eliminated too I guess.  So, the rebuttal to Kyle's idea is to remain helpless spectators.  Now, we are all out smarted.

Jim Norton

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 1, 2014 9:44 AM

Competing trolls - what a thread!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, August 1, 2014 9:57 AM

  Now, we are all out smarted.

 
Based on some of the suggestions, that wouldn't take much.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 1, 2014 10:01 AM

.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 1, 2014 10:04 AM

jimnorton

Hint:  Quit letting your women boss you and this urge to belittle Kyle and your fellow man via the internet will greatly diminish!

Wow!!  A real live male chauvinist pig, a species that I had hoped was endangered.

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, August 1, 2014 11:49 AM

Kyle

Zugmann called me a troll, which I consider to be a personal attack.  I will let the moderators handle it.

Apperantly the TSA thinks that spray cans can be used as weapons, which is why they ban them on flights.  You could easily blind someone and then attack them.

Zugmann considers it an observation. 

Actually, I'm offended that you think I personally attacked you.  Perhaps I should report you for attacking me because you thought I attacked you. 

Nah...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, August 1, 2014 11:50 AM

gardendance
Why would you expect Zugmann to have deleted the content of his post? I don't see where you asked him to. Also how does him calling you his favorite count as a personal attack?

Yeah... no, I'm not deleting anything. 

He can report me all he wants. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by gardendance on Friday, August 1, 2014 2:21 PM

Especially since he didn't ask you to. He asked me to delete my post where I questioned you eleveating him to most favorite bestest status. See what you dragged me into. I probably should shift you around on my ranking board too. You're not my favorite anymore either.

Patrick Boylan

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, August 1, 2014 2:39 PM

Gardendance:

Anything left of Pigeon Point or Carney's Point float docks?

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Posted by gardendance on Friday, August 1, 2014 2:57 PM

Dehusman,

Even though I enjoy any opportunity to advocate my sailboat, we really should discuss it in private message, or in http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/p/230465/2581537.aspx#2581537

Of course I assume you've asking if I've seen these from my sailboat. I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread.

I'm on the Delaware River at Philadelphia's far northeast, in fact my club is the next to the last building before the Bucks County line.

Although I must have sailed by Carney's Point when I delivered the boat from Toms River NJ, I don't think I knew there was a car float there. I also have no idea where Pigeon Point is, but since you include it I guess it must be on the other side of the river from Carney's Point. If you want to get a look you'll have to sail with me, and the distance means we'll have to spend the night together, which means you'll have to buy me dinner first.

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, August 1, 2014 3:48 PM

gardendance

Of course I assume you've asking if I've seen these from my sailboat. I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread.

Just read your tag line, I thought you were futher south, got my bridges confused.

Pigeon Pt is by Wilmington and Carney's Pt is across the river in Jersey.  They were two points on the Reading' railroad's car float operations out of Wilmington (third was Thompson's Point).  You are right they really have nothing to with this thread, but I figure a polite discourse on an actual railroad topic couldn't hurt it either.  8-)

Back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, August 1, 2014 4:08 PM

Murphy Siding

jimnorton

There is nothing illegal about security employees firing warning shots. 

    I believe there is something illegal about that.  Where does the bullet come down, and who or what does it hit?  Go out in your yard an fire a warning shot at that naughty old squirrel in your yard and then let us know what the police say about the legalities. Laugh

     Are you and Kyle the same person, using 2 forum ID's?

I am not the same person as whoever "jimnorton" is!!!  As I have told you before this is my one and only forum ID!!!!  If you continue spreading your lies, I will report your post for personal attacks by spreading lies.

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, August 1, 2014 4:12 PM

Zugmann:  Have it your way, but I have reported your post and if you continue your personal attacks and name calling I will have to not only report your pot but PM a moderator as well.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, August 1, 2014 4:32 PM

.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Kyle on Friday, August 1, 2014 4:54 PM

Murphy Siding

Kyle

Murphy Siding

jimnorton

There is nothing illegal about security employees firing warning shots. 

    I believe there is something illegal about that.  Where does the bullet come down, and who or what does it hit?  Go out in your yard an fire a warning shot at that naughty old squirrel in your yard and then let us know what the police say about the legalities. Laugh

     Are you and Kyle the same person, using 2 forum ID's?

I am not the same person as whoever "jimnorton" is!!!  As I have told you before this is my one and only forum ID!!!!  If you continue spreading your lies, I will report your post for personal attacks by spreading lies.

  Yes!  Please do.  I'm sure the moderators would be pleased to have a discussion with you about behavior on the forum.


Alien Earth to Kyle: jmorton is the person who started this thread- sound familiar.

I haven't broken any rules.  You and several others on the other hand, have gotten so low that now your are using personal attacks and name calling.  Just think about that.

Just because he started the thread doesn't mean I know him. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 1, 2014 5:04 PM

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Posted by Mookie on Friday, August 1, 2014 5:22 PM

Kyle

Zugmann:  Have it your way, but I have reported your post and if you continue your personal attacks and name calling I will have to not only report your pot but PM a moderator as well.

You know, Kyle....your bluster and threats are getting really old.  You are like the proverbial sparrow, all mouth and full of berries.  Why don't you quit threatening everyone on the forum and maybe try to just be a reader for awhile and contribute if you really have something to contribute. 

Tell us just exactly how much you know about railroading and not how to handle the problems.  Tell us if you know absolutely anything about train crews, or you just like to annoy them for the fun of it. 

Tell us if trains interest you at all or if you just want to get on any forum on any subject and threaten, shoot, maime etc anyone that you feel is doing something wrong.  Let the mods get on with their lives and make an attempt to either open your eyes and read the information and make sensible comments, or go share your comments on a murder & mayhem forum.  Please!

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by edblysard on Friday, August 1, 2014 5:45 PM

jimnorton,

Not sure about your neck of the woods, but here in Texas, the legal system assumes that if you fired your weapon, you intended to cause harm to someone.

You can display your weapon in an intimidating manner, and you can use your weapon in self-defense if you feel your life is threatened, but only under certain circumstances clearly defined in our penal code..

Texas penal code 9.31 covers the justified use of non-deadly force, and code 9.32 covers the justified use of deadly force.

I am pretty sure most states penal codes follow the same basic guidelines.

You can use deadly force to prevent the theft of livestock, which has a clear definition under Texas law, and to prevent the theft of property after dark, (the established time of dark being the official time as reported by NOAA), but you can also expect the DA in your county to forward your case to a grand jury to determine if you will be charged with a crime.

I have been licensed by the State of Texas to carry a weapon for over 20 years, and have had a concealed handgun license for 15years, since the law that allowed citizens to carry concealed handguns was enacted here.

Please be clear and cite which states, and under what part of their penal codes, are you allowed to fire a warning shot.

By the way, the GCOR, NORAC and the Canadian rule book all prohibit the carrying of firearms of any type, even by licensed individuals, and doing so is grounds for immediate removal from service and possible criminal charges.

My carrier’s general rules also prohibit the carrying of a knife with a blade longer than 3 inches and any knife with a spring loaded mechanism.

23 17 46 11

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, August 1, 2014 11:08 PM

Kyle

Zugmann:  Have it your way, but I have reported your post and if you continue your personal attacks and name calling I will have to not only report your pot but PM a moderator as well.

Dots - Sign  Tell the mods I said "hi".

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, August 2, 2014 1:31 AM

gardendance

Especially since he didn't ask you to. He asked me to delete my post where I questioned you eleveating him to most favorite bestest status. See what you dragged me into. I probably should shift you around on my ranking board too. You're not my favorite anymore either.

I know, I'm a  bad influence on this page.  ABC is going to make an after-school documentary about me some day. 

I just wonder who will get to play the part of me?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by gardendance on Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:25 AM

When you negotiate with ABC after-school special will you ask them for me how to spell "eleveating". I hate when I misspell and people quote me.

Patrick Boylan

Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message

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