Amtrak and the Freight Roads

[schlimm]

The current problems of the EB and Texas Eagle (on another thread on Passenger Forum) illustrate the incompatibility of passenger services (or even one train per day) with American freight practices.  Even with double track, the top speed differential of 79 mph passenger (really too slow for modern service) to 50-60 mph freight is too great.   I do not know what the answer is other than focus on dedicated ROW in short corridors for real passenger services.

[DwightBranch]

BNSF has been perhaps the most accommodating of any of the freight railroads towards Amtrak, I doubt they are actively trying to "kill Amtrak". Indeed, if any money were forthcoming I'll bet they would be happy to spend it on track work that would benefit Amtrak, as they have on the CZ route through Iowa (CTC islands, etc, paid for by the federal government, so that the CZ can pass all the coal trains on the otherwise ABS direction of traffic system) and are willing to pitch in on the SWC route through Kansas, Colorado and NM (they have offered to pay one-filth of the cost of upgrading the route to passenger train speeds and remove slow orders, with Amtrak and the three states to pay the rest, met with state government officials on Amtrak's behalf several times, hosted trains on the line etc to try to get the states to do their part).

I am not as familiar with the EB route as with the CZ and SWC route, can anyone list some specific improvements that could free up capacity and improve EB time keeping?

[henry6]

PNWRMNM

Only Congress can kill ATK and I wish they do it immediately.

Mac McCulloch

Questions your proposal raises: 1) what would you propose be done abut moving people? 2) or what do you propose to replace Amtrak or Amtrak's role? 3) what do you think your proposal would accomplish? 4) how realistic and thought out is your proposal. 5) would we really be better off killing off Congress and saving Amtrak?

[tree68]

dehusman

What people don't understand is the footprint that a passenger train casts.  If the dispatcher is trying to get the passenger train across a sub with minimal delay, on a single track line, ...

This can be seen even on the two-track CSX Chicago Line in NY - Things get really "quiet" around scheduled Amtrak arrivals.

[PNWRMNM]

Only Congress can kill ATK and I wish they do it immediately.

Mac McCulloch

[Phoebe Vet]

Making deliberately longer trains just to inconvenience Amtrak? I have heard some pretty weird conspiracy theories, but that one takes the cake.

[dehusman]

I C Rider

I am posing a passenger question to general conversation I am A fan of the Empire Builder #'s 7&8. It has been very late for sometime now and the excuses are piling up. BNSF says that they are at capacity due to oil trains. When I was on it both ways the one that passed us most seem to be merchandise trains.

Its total number of trains, not necessarily what you met.  If the railroad used to run 20 trains and you add in an additional 20 trains, that compresses the original 20 trains.  Even if you don't meet an oil train it has doubled the number of trains on the subdivision.

Could it be that the freight roads are making deliberately longer trains so that Amtrak has to sit in the siding because the fright trains are too long?

Train lengths have been growing for the last 3 decades.

What people don't understand is the footprint that a passenger train casts.  If the dispatcher is trying to get the passenger train across a sub with minimal delay, on a single track line, he may be putting trains in sidings from 50 to 100 miles ahead of the passenger train.  If he has x sidings and x trains, he has to start dumping trains.   If he keeps them going he will end up with multiple trains meeting Amtrak at one siding.  If he has more freight trains than sidings then he has to make 2 on one meets. 

Since Amtrak is operating 20-30 mph faster than the freights, the dispatcher has to get trains in BOTH directions out of the way because Amtrak will catch the freights ahead.  With just freight trains, the dispatcher primarily is concerned with opposing trains since there will be fewer overtakes.  That effectively doubles the number of trains the dispatcher has to find a hole for.

If your train lost time, my guess would be that it was following a train in the same direction.  Freight train 50 mph, passenger schedule 79 mph, yep you're going to lose time.

 

[I C Rider]

I am posing a passenger question to general conversation I am A fan of the Empire Builder #'s 7&8. It has been very late for sometime now and the excuses are piling up. BNSF says that they are at capacity due to oil trains. When I was on it both ways the one that passed us most seem to be merchandise trains. What is CP's excuse? The run from Chicago to MSP was supposed to be a good one but we lost time both ways. Could it be that the freight roads are making deliberately longer trains so that Amtrak has to sit in the siding because the fright trains are too long? After all how long can Amtrak put up passengers who miss their Chicago connections almost daily? I am asking these questions out of curiosity. Are people trying to kill Amtrak and make it look like a suicide?