Today the Canadian Pacific reported a record quarter, including an operating ratio down to 65.9, closing in on Harrison's goal of 65 by 2015. For the year, the OR was 69.9.
I think it's safe to say at this point that Harrison has delivered on his promises at CP in spades.
He is very good at what he does, earns short term profits.
An "expensive model collector"
Of course he has succeeded in making money for the stockholders and investors. But how are his customers doing? And how many days are there shortages of crews or extra days added to deliveries because of shortage of equipment or crews or the elimination of trains period? Oh, maybe not on the whole railroad or not that everybody or anybody can see, but what part of CP railroads have been lost? Is making money...and I don't discount its importance and need...the only measure of success? What if a penny less is earned but there are more satisfied customers who got their traffic on time or payed less so will be around to buy again tomorrow?
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Henry: If you have answers to any of your questions, please share. Otherwise, you seem to be making statements by insinuation rather than asking questions.
Canadian Pacific is in free fall. Employees scared for their lives. Enron made a lot of money too.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
dakotafredHenry: If you have answers to any of your questions, please share. Otherwise, you seem to be making statements by insinuation rather than asking questions.
Actually Henry6's questions are overwhelmingly important and of paramount importance if anyone is thinking of holding CPR shares for more than 24 hours at a time.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Henry and Bruce, thank you for a dose of reality. Any large company can show a big bump in profit if it guts the work force, maintenance, and service.
Seems, that at one time it was fashionable to provided the best service at the best price for the customer. Now it is to provide the best quarterly earnings for the stock analyst.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
Coborn's second sentence above regarding employees is completely valid. And it's just the tip of the iceberg. If the business media bothered to step foot near CP property and ask questions, or take educated notice of the way things are being done now, or the condition certain things are in, it would tell quite a different story. One aside I keep coming back to: was it just lack of interest, or economic necessity, that led CP under EHH to mothball its glorious and fully functional steam program, while UP has opted to take a dead and non-functioning Big Boy and restore it?
Some of us need to get a grip. Harrison did not exactly leave gutted properties behind at the former IC and at CN. I believe CN was setting the pace that CP aspired to when they brought Harrison out of retirement.
Employees "scared for their lives"? I think we'd have heard more about that on this forum.
At IC, Harrison made the first experiment I am aware of to improve the lives of his train and engine people, bringing them home every night by having northbound and south swap trains halfway thru their runs.
Yes, he's trying to wring more productivity out of his workers, like every other business. Most workers are used to it and generally prefer it to seeing their jobs go somewhere else. What entitles CP employees to exemption from the economic rules everybody else has to live by?
Agent Kid would find that, contrary to his 24-hour rule, anybody who bought CP stock at Harrison's start 18 months ago, and has held on, has enjoyed a steady rise -- tracking the road's improved performance -- to double what it cost him.
As for steam: The floppy cap-and-neckerchief crowd has lots of options. Pardon a busy Class 1 for sidetracking it in favor of business.
Harrison is bringing CP's numbers in line with industry norms. For years the Company has been the industry lightweight, always the laggard in terms of performance and profitability. If his motivation was only short term gain over long-term viability he would not have bothered to put together a succession plan, and he would not have troubled himself with luring CN's star operations man, Keith Creel, over to CP. With Creel, CP will have excellent leadership for the foreseeable future.
As a long-term shareholder in CP I'm happy with the progress to date.. This is not to say that things are perfect, but they're at least going in the right direction quickly. Certain issues need to be addressed, and certainly any employee safety issues need to remain front and center. Employees are stakeholders too, and more importantly, many put their lives on the line; and that fact should (and I believe does) trump any shareholder interest in CP.
dakotafred . Employees "scared for their lives"? I think we'd have heard more about this on this forum.
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Employees "scared for their lives"? I think we'd have heard more about this on this forum.
Maybe "scared for their jobs" would be more appropriate. And I am not talking about being furloughed.
On another forum, mostly populated by rail workers, there calling the CP the new NS. For their heavy handed discipline, not because of their financial performance.
Jeff
It is the American business philosophy and cycle: invest, build, sell, buyer runs good business, investors reap, plant falls to ruin by lack of attention, business sold to one who fixes then sells for profit, etc. It is a matter of a see saw and cycle that it gets built, profits are taken until it falls apart, sold to a rebuilder, sold to investors to reap profits, etc.
jeffhergert dakotafred . Employees "scared for their lives"? I think we'd have heard more about this on this forum. On another forum, mostly populated by rail workers, there calling the CP the new NS. For their heavy handed discipline, not because of their financial performance. Jeff
This sounds like 'political posturing' and hyperbole. Most of us would understand that the 'truth' is somewhwere else. It strikes me as possible, at least, that the heavy handed approach to discicpline might be restoring more than just viability to CP. It might be encouraging a needed culture change that will sustain the company and its thousands of jobs. It is never black and white.
-Crandell
dakotafredAgent Kid would find that, contrary to his 24-hour rule, anybody who bought CP stock at Harrison's start 18 months ago, and has held on, has enjoyed a steady rise -- tracking the road's improved performance -- to double what it cost him.
Talk about the past is cheap. It is the going forward that is the big concern. It seems CN is not releasing their year end report until after the markets close today. I will look at those numbers and get back to this thread tomorrow or over the weekend.
selector jeffhergert dakotafred . Employees "scared for their lives"? I think we'd have heard more about this on this forum. On another forum, mostly populated by rail workers, there calling the CP the new NS. For their heavy handed discipline, not because of their financial performance. Jeff This sounds like 'political posturing' and hyperbole. Most of us would understand that the 'truth' is somewhwere else. It strikes me as possible, at least, that the heavy handed approach to discicpline might be restoring more than just viability to CP. It might be encouraging a needed culture change that will sustain the company and its thousands of jobs. It is never black and white. -Crandell
Well, you know... oh never mind.
You need to work for a railroad to know what it's really like to work for a railroad. Some things are beyond belief, like one co worker who was called into a conference about absenteeism. He had suffered a house fire and then a child getting sick and ending up in the hospital. At the conference a low level operating officer told him that he needed to let his family know that the railroad came first. If the employee wanted, the officer could explain it to his family.
Perhaps that low level operating officer should also have some such trouble--and then he would understand that there are personal matters that NEED attending to, even when they interfere with work. Does he have no compassion?
Johnny
I'm reminded of the Christmas story about the handicapped child who got to run a switch engine because of a trainmaster who had lost his own son under similar circumstances.
Deggesty Perhaps that low level operating officer should also have some such trouble--and then he would understand that there are personal matters that NEED attending to, even when they interfere with work. Does he have no compassion?
Those type of people exist in every industry. Name me one industry that doesn't employee a single aszhat... can't be done.
The jury is still out on him, and on Pershing Square and Bill Ackman. If the profits reported today are reinvested in the right of way, strengthening the railroad then it will have been worth it. There are many such projects in need of attention, such as replacing stick rail on the former Soo Line in the Dakotas etc.,That is what Warren Buffett has done with BNSF, thinking long term. Many Canadians are however afraid Ackman will sell out after draining all the profits he can and inflating the stock price to dump it. That would leave a mess behind for the workers who are being asked to sacrifice now. I wouldn't say that CNR is a clear success for Hunter either, from what I have seen and heard the track is in undeniably worse shape then when it was privatized.
Now that Hunter's been there for over a year, it would be real interesting - and informative - to look at the changes Year-Over-Year of some key financial and safety performance indicators and ratios. For example (and certainly not a complete list, nor in any particular order):
I'll look into the Railroad Performance Measures for CP, and see what they have to say - Average Train Velocity, Average Car Dwell Time in Yards, Average Number of Cars on the system, etc. Other suggestions and comments are invited.
EDIT: That was a short look - evidently CP doesn't participate, though all of the other 6 Class I's do - see: http://www.railroadpm.org/home/rpm.aspx Apparently effective Sept. 2013, CP discontinued reporting to the AAR, and instead set up its own performance reporting website - see:
http://www.cpr.ca/en/invest-in-cp/key-metrics/Pages/default.aspx
Maybe more on this later when I have more time to review it in detail (meantime, others are certainly welcome to jump in.)
A sharp look at these might tell us whether maintenance is being deferred to 'goose' the earnings and share price in the short-term only, or whether the property is being maintained on an even keel for the long-term viewpoint, etc.
- Paul North.
Hunter's balance sheets and stockholder satisfaction is only one side of success. Ask the rank and file about their balance sheets and home lives....Hunter and the money may be on world tours but some in the rank and file aren't anymore and others are working so many hours they can't even see themselves in the mirror much less their families. And, of course, the customer may also be asked if he's getting his shipments on the same regular basis and time as before or if he's had to (re)adjust his schedules and operations to accommodate the bottom line of CP rather than his company.
jeffhergert You need to work for a railroad to know what it's really like to work for a railroad. Some things are beyond belief, like one co worker who was called into a conference about absenteeism. He had suffered a house fire and then a child getting sick and ending up in the hospital. At the conference a low level operating officer told him that he needed to let his family know that the railroad came first. If the employee wanted, the officer could explain it to his family. Jeff
With all due respect, this has the aroma of an urban myth-type tale. I'd like to see some documentation. I'm sure there are such rear ends out there, but I would be surprised to see one of them in a position of authority with a modern company. Too many roofs ready to fall in on you.
Where, for instance, was the guy's union in all this? If they weren't making a federal case of it, he's been wasting his dues money all these years.
dakotafred With all due respect, this has the aroma of an urban myth-type tale. I'd like to see some documentation. I'm sure there are such rear ends out there, but I would be surprised to see one of them in a position of authority with a modern company. Too many roofs ready to fall in on you. Where, for instance, was the guy's union in all this? If they weren't making a federal case of it, he's been wasting his dues money all these years.
Fred
I don't know your working background or your reasons for making the statement you did above.
However, I can tell you from experience that someone who is uncertain of their future or how the union or the business can or cannot support them, along with the union's position in today's regulatory, economic (read shareholder profit) and political environment, would be thinking twice about how to 'go to the wall' and further more would think pretty carefully about proceeding in a way that would produce beneficial results for members. If I may ask, 'When was the last time you sat in a union meeting and heard the business agent or local chairman talk about such matters?' And then made a decision through your vote??
If you have, I'm willing to hear what you have to say. If not, you're blowing smoke.....
As others on this forum have detailed previously, 'picking your battles' matters a lot. Spurious or other questionable claims may really muddy the waters and create further challenges, legal and/or otherwise.
It's not a kind world for labour....
Charlie
Chilliwack BC
lenzfamily dakotafred With all due respect, this has the aroma of an urban myth-type tale. I'd like to see some documentation. I'm sure there are such rear ends out there, but I would be surprised to see one of them in a position of authority with a modern company. Too many roofs ready to fall in on you. Where, for instance, was the guy's union in all this? If they weren't making a federal case of it, he's been wasting his dues money all these years. Fred I don't know your working background or your reasons for making the statement you did above. However, I can tell you from experience that someone who is uncertain of their future or how the union or the business can or cannot support them, along with the union's position in today's regulatory, economic (read shareholder profit) and political environment, would be thinking twice about how to 'go to the wall' and further more would think pretty carefully about proceeding in a way that would produce beneficial results for members. If I may ask, 'When was the last time you sat in a union meeting and heard the business agent or local chairman talk about such matters?' And then made a decision through your vote?? If you have, I'm willing to hear what you have to say. If not, you're blowing smoke..... As others on this forum have detailed previously, 'picking your battles' matters a lot. Spurious or other questionable claims may really muddy the waters and create further challenges, legal and/or otherwise. It's not a kind world for labour.... Charlie Chilliwack BC
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
dakotafred jeffhergert You need to work for a railroad to know what it's really like to work for a railroad. Some things are beyond belief, like one co worker who was called into a conference about absenteeism. He had suffered a house fire and then a child getting sick and ending up in the hospital. At the conference a low level operating officer told him that he needed to let his family know that the railroad came first. If the employee wanted, the officer could explain it to his family. Jeff With all due respect, this has the aroma of an urban myth-type tale. I'd like to see some documentation. I'm sure there are such rear ends out there, but I would be surprised to see one of them in a position of authority with a modern company. Too many roofs ready to fall in on you. Where, for instance, was the guy's union in all this? If they weren't making a federal case of it, he's been wasting his dues money all these years.
He told us this at a union meeting. I don't think the matter went far enough to get the union involved. It wasn't an investigation, but a preliminary step that could lead to one. Usually you get a letter or an informal conference to let you know you are on their radar. (The computer tracks the availability. It automatically flags too many lay offs or not enough work hours compared to peers. Even vacations get flagged, but then managers are supposed to correct for things like that. One manager didn't recently and guys who had been on vacation were getting warning letters for absenteeism. Their records were corrected.)
I don't think that it's our company's policy to be so heavy handed in unusual circumstances, I think the officer thought he had to project that attitude about work comes first. But if they really wanted to pursue it I'm not sure anything could be done about it. A literal reading of the company policy really is work comes first.
Any yes, Fred, he could have been exaggerating, too. But it seems some (but by no means all) younger officers, whether hired into management off the street or coming out of the ranks think that sometimes you need to be a rear end to go higher. It's why I won't apply for a management position (MOP, known as roadforeman of engines or travelling engineer elsewhere) much to the chagrin of my wife. I would have no problem enforcing rules or pulling tests, but I couldn't do it the way a few officers have in the past. (Thankfully most of those have retired or moved to other locations.)
Heck, it's not only in the operating end. A conductor was telling me about his nephew who works in the "glass palace" in one of the management (like finance or IT, etc.) departments. He was getting on an elevator when he saw his supervisor coming down the hall, also to use the elevator. He held the door by putting his arm out so the door wouldn't close. His thank you for holding the door was being reprimanded for a safety violation.
It seems Jeff's story is not the secondhand one I thought, and I apologize for denigrating it. I also acknowledge that there are over-the-top, overbearing supervisors to be run into in any profession, and perhaps especially in the oldfashioned world of railroading.
One wishes them a short life of trouble.
In response to Lenzfamily, it's been 40 years since my last local meeting, and that was clerks, not one of the 'ops'. I can remember several, uh, sex organs among the railroad officers of my day, though, and I'm sorry but not surprised to hear they're still out there.
actually it is really important that responsible investors get the truth from the employees as well as managment.
UlrichAs a long-term shareholder in CP I'm happy with the progress to date.. This is not to say that things are perfect, but they're at least going in the right direction quickly. Certain issues need to be addressed, and certainly any employee safety issues need to remain front and center. Employees are stakeholders too, and more importantly, many put their lives on the line; and that fact should (and I believe does) trump any shareholder interest in CP.
I must say this latest round of financial reports from the Canadian roads did surprise me. During January there were various pieces of info that were leading me to believe things were not well. There were reports in Canadian business media that both CN and CP were going to miss their fourth quarter earnings estimates because of the very cold and snowy weather we had over most of the country the last six weeks of the year. And, as an offshoot of that, there were reports that with the reduced capacity available railways were giving priority to moving crude-oil over grain. The fact is farmers produced record amounts of product this year and railways simply can't be expected to move those volumes on a moments notice. Finally, there were reports on various Canadian RR forums that in order to reduce the yard dwell time metric CP was moving trains out of yards to sidings along the line. It was said CPR stood for "Crew, Park, and Recrew".
One thing I did notice in these financial reports was the measurement of Revenue-Ton-Miles. I could relate to this, as I worked for a common carrier natural gas pipeline company and we had the same type of metric, only we called it Commodity Mileage. It is a way of quantifying the actual amount of "work" done as opposed to how much money you will earn for the "work" or how much it costs you to earn it. I also looked at changes in Operating Ratios. Taken together changes in these two numbers could be revealing. A simplified example would be, if you increased RTM's but your OR actually fell, it could mean you were beating your infrastructure and men like rented mules.
Given the widespread nature of RR activities, it also struck me that using national changes in GDP might be a reasonable number to compare changes in RTM's to. As it happened, the US Government agency that reports such things issued a report on Friday that said US GDP grew at 1.9% in 2013. So, I looked at five of the six big RR's and this is what I found.
NS RTM's increased by 4.3% and their OR increased by 1% to 71.0. CSX RTM's increased by 2% and their OR fell 0.5% to 71.1 I could not locate this info for BNSF. I will get to UP in a moment. Now we get to the interesting part. CN RTM's increased 4% and their OR increased 0.5% to 63.4 CP RTM's increased 7% and their OR fell 0.71% to 69.9. I guess the weather wasn't so bad, the grain and oil kept moving, and the people making earnings estimates should be polishing their Crystal Balls. It seems CP is no longer an industry laggard.
UP RTM's fell 1% and their OR increased 1.7% to 66.1. That big slide they had in Colorado may have had an impact here. Or do you suppose having almost the industry lowest OR has compromised their ability to earn a living? I think I see a future Fred Frailey article here.
I may never become a EHH fan but something seems to be working for CP.
UlrichHarrison is bringing CP's numbers in line with industry norms. For years the Company has been the industry lightweight, always the laggard in terms of performance and profitability. If his motivation was only short term gain over long-term viability he would not have bothered to put together a succession plan, and he would not have troubled himself with luring CN's star operations man, Keith Creel, over to CP. With Creel, CP will have excellent leadership for the foreseeable future.
You were aware there may be clouds on Keith Creel's horizon? It seems he has been named in a lawsuit alleging he fiddled with Yard Dwell Time and Average Train Speed numbers to make CN appear more favourable to investors.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/whistleblower-lawsuit-says-cn-is-cooking-its-books-1.2187724
The actual lawsuit can bee viewed here:
aptn.ca/pages/news/files/2013/09/CNUScomplaint.pdf
AgentKid You were aware there may be clouds on Keith Creel's horizon? It seems he has been named in a lawsuit alleging he fiddled with Yard Dwell Time and Average Train Speed numbers to make CN appear more favourable to investors. http://www.cbc.ca/news/whistleblower-lawsuit-says-cn-is-cooking-its-books-1.2187724 The actual lawsuit can bee viewed here: aptn.ca/pages/news/files/2013/09/CNUScomplaint.pdf Bruce
In my day we called that 'cooking the data/results' which incurred severe penalties in an academic setting. Hope the regulators and the courts deal with him...through due process. There's enough 'messing around' as it is.......
Chilliwack, BC
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