schlimm ontheBNSF actually responded about the Chinese, they are still using maglev and will have a super high speed maglev by 2015. You seem to completely ignore it. http://english.gov.cn/2011-03/01/content_1813580.htm Fact: China is building a low-speed Maglev line, yes. Intracity, in Beijing, much like a subway, with a top speed of 100-120kmh. In the future, perhaps instead of trolling your fanciful obsession (as you have done several times here along with some political trolls) you might invest in a reading course.
ontheBNSF actually responded about the Chinese, they are still using maglev and will have a super high speed maglev by 2015. You seem to completely ignore it.
http://english.gov.cn/2011-03/01/content_1813580.htm
Fact: China is building a low-speed Maglev line, yes. Intracity, in Beijing, much like a subway, with a top speed of 100-120kmh.
In the future, perhaps instead of trolling your fanciful obsession (as you have done several times here along with some political trolls) you might invest in a reading course.
China is actually developing a 620mph partial vacuum tube maglev, that will be ready in 2015. I don't get what there is to dispute here. I guess they are also designing a lower speed maglev, which only further serves to prove me right in saying that China hasn't given up on the technology.
Railroad to Freedom
Fact: China is building a low-speed Maglev line, yes. Intracity, in Beijing, much like a subway, with a top speed of 100-120 kmh (62 -75 mph).
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Murphy Siding ontheBNSF .................. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another....... Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated. Oh please- tell us more about these Mag-Lev projects that would run outside of the corridors where all the riders are, will come in under budget, and will have more riders than they thought possible?
ontheBNSF .................. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another....... Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated.
.................. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another....... Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated.
Maglev can better adjust to lower population concentration through different vehicle configurations and can travel at higher speeds than HSR thus enabling better adaption to US demographics. The only maglev project that seems to have suffered from a lack or ridership or cost over runs is the linimo maglev in Japan.
ndbprrYou want facts. Tell us how much 100 miles of maglev will cost including the real estate and who is going to finance it?
100 miles at 13 million - 20 million dollars a mile is around 1.3 - 2 billion dollars. Real estate is hard one to calculate, but a lot of real estate is government owned and could be in theory used for such a project. For financing there is a multitude of methods, the Federal Government has oil and gas resources valued at 128 trillion dollars, you can "print" money, money in CAFRs (varying numbers), money from the drug war at 500 billion a year, and other valuable assets both physical and paper government assets that could easily fund such a small project.
Norm48327 ontheBNSF Actually there is quite a lot of nostalgia involved, in that railfans will often try to implement rail projects not necessarily out of practicality but out of simple desire to have trains built. Never mind the many failures of rail projects both domestically and abroad. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another. Definitely nostalgia involved. Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated. Railfans do not build railroads. Companies build then for (hopefully) profit. Some nostalgia may be involved for those who appreciate railroad history, but have you ever seen them build their own lines? No; they run on trackage the railroads no longer need. Don't you think if it were profitable that both freight and commuter railroads would have them in their future plans? Obviously they don't and the reason is financial. The cost to build what yo envision is far beyond the financial capability of most companies and we know what a mess the government would make of them. You've presented your case, but it is a weak one. You are also preaching to the wrong choir.
ontheBNSF Actually there is quite a lot of nostalgia involved, in that railfans will often try to implement rail projects not necessarily out of practicality but out of simple desire to have trains built. Never mind the many failures of rail projects both domestically and abroad. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another. Definitely nostalgia involved. Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated.
Actually there is quite a lot of nostalgia involved, in that railfans will often try to implement rail projects not necessarily out of practicality but out of simple desire to have trains built. Never mind the many failures of rail projects both domestically and abroad. Railfans propose solutions which would only work in certain parts of the US (corridors) and that most people won't ever use these but will indefinitely have to pay for in one way or another. Definitely nostalgia involved. Never mind the fact that costs of rail projects always seem to be underestimated and always change the minute come time to actually build it and ridership always seems to be greatly over estimated.
Railfans do not build railroads. Companies build then for (hopefully) profit. Some nostalgia may be involved for those who appreciate railroad history, but have you ever seen them build their own lines? No; they run on trackage the railroads no longer need.
Don't you think if it were profitable that both freight and commuter railroads would have them in their future plans? Obviously they don't and the reason is financial. The cost to build what yo envision is far beyond the financial capability of most companies and we know what a mess the government would make of them.
You've presented your case, but it is a weak one. You are also preaching to the wrong choir.
Private companies for the most part don't build railroads today. They are mostly built by transportation planners and other people in government and many of those people in government are nostalgic. Simply a technology being good doesn't mean it will be used, often people misinformed about something or just don't want a technology to succeed or they are just used to what they have. Trackage is often built to towns that don't need it for purely political reasons.
Your first 4 links are nothing more than promotional articles written by maglev developers, self-promoting Q&A articles, none of them are an unbiased straightforward study of cost versus profitability, and containing no verifiable facts, only suppositions and wish fulfillment.
The only “proof” in any of them is strictly in the minds of the articles authors.
As for carrying freight, yes, you can use maglev for that, but why would you want to?
You could also use dirigibles, hot air balloons, or Zeppelins, but the same question applies.
For that matter, mule trains and canal barges can also move freight.
Funny thing about a free market economy, it often finds the most cost efficient and profitable way of accomplishing its practitioner’s goals.
You trolled this same basic posting out here about two years ago.
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Norm
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Norm48327 ontheBNSF Nostalgia works a lot better than actual transportation solutions. No nostalgia involved; just reality. If you read the history books you'll find similar dreams that sounded good but didn't last. Examples would be streetcars, inter-urbans, and local passenger trains. The latter only thrived in major metropolitan areas. Many went by the wayside for lack of demand. That said, new technology is worth investigating, but cost is the driving factor. If it costs more than we can afford is it feasable? The answer is in your wallet.
ontheBNSF Nostalgia works a lot better than actual transportation solutions.
Nostalgia works a lot better than actual transportation solutions.
No nostalgia involved; just reality. If you read the history books you'll find similar dreams that sounded good but didn't last. Examples would be streetcars, inter-urbans, and local passenger trains. The latter only thrived in major metropolitan areas. Many went by the wayside for lack of demand.
That said, new technology is worth investigating, but cost is the driving factor. If it costs more than we can afford is it feasable? The answer is in your wallet.
schlimm ontheBNSF schlimm Back to Fantasyland where anything you dream goes, regardless of facts. I am the only who has actually provided any facts. All you have done is throw out insults. I gave real world questions of: 1. why the Chinese abandoned building a maglev line from Shanghai to Hangzhou; and 2. why the Germans, who had pioneered maglev, abandoned plans to build any more lines. You gave no answers. As to your facts, you only cited several think pieces, which are simply opinions of a highly speculative nature. Many other posters also raised serious questions, which you seem incapable of responding to with anything more than facile and inaccurate retorts. I can only conclude that once again you are posting about your obsession with futuristc schemes such as maglev, much akin to the vacuum tube line proposed earlier.
ontheBNSF schlimm Back to Fantasyland where anything you dream goes, regardless of facts. I am the only who has actually provided any facts. All you have done is throw out insults.
schlimm Back to Fantasyland where anything you dream goes, regardless of facts.
Back to Fantasyland where anything you dream goes, regardless of facts.
I am the only who has actually provided any facts. All you have done is throw out insults.
I gave real world questions of: 1. why the Chinese abandoned building a maglev line from Shanghai to Hangzhou; and 2. why the Germans, who had pioneered maglev, abandoned plans to build any more lines. You gave no answers. As to your facts, you only cited several think pieces, which are simply opinions of a highly speculative nature. Many other posters also raised serious questions, which you seem incapable of responding to with anything more than facile and inaccurate retorts. I can only conclude that once again you are posting about your obsession with futuristc schemes such as maglev, much akin to the vacuum tube line proposed earlier.
I actually responded about the Chinese, they are still using maglev and will have a super high speed maglev by 2015. You seem to completely ignore it. In the case of Germany, it is hard to say why they abandoned the technology probably a combination of factors.
Money talks! BS walks.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
ontheBNSF ndbprrSo now all we need to do is replace current railroads with maglev after we buy up or take the real estate by eminent domain. Replace all the rolling stock. Displace millions of people and who is going to pay for it? Shouldn't cost more then two or three trillion dollars and where will that come from? That is what one calls a strawman.
ndbprrSo now all we need to do is replace current railroads with maglev after we buy up or take the real estate by eminent domain. Replace all the rolling stock. Displace millions of people and who is going to pay for it? Shouldn't cost more then two or three trillion dollars and where will that come from?
That is what one calls a strawman.
Maybe, but that still doesn't answer the question.
A few decades ago monorails were going to be everywhere. Nothing but pipe dreams.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
BaltACD ontheBNSF As for the comments about cost, I provided solid examples of Maglev costing less money in terms of capital and operational cost. Utopia traditionally has cost less than reality.
ontheBNSF As for the comments about cost, I provided solid examples of Maglev costing less money in terms of capital and operational cost.
As for the comments about cost, I provided solid examples of Maglev costing less money in terms of capital and operational cost.
Utopia traditionally has cost less than reality.
schlimm If that is so why did the Chinese reverse their original decision on Maglev on the line from Shanghai to Hangzhou? They have the money. Why did the Germans decide against building additional Maglev lines beyond the test line. They pioneered the concept.
If that is so why did the Chinese reverse their original decision on Maglev on the line from Shanghai to Hangzhou? They have the money.
Why did the Germans decide against building additional Maglev lines beyond the test line. They pioneered the concept.
In the case of China they decided against building more transrapid lines, but they are still using maglev for other uses. They are developing a 620mph maglev. As for Germany, the Transrapid is outdated and expensive technology.
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/smart-takes/china-developing-600-mph-airless-maglev-high-speed-train/
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90781/90879/6595888.html
chutton01 But of course, since nation-wide Maglevs transport systems, just like sustained Nuclear Fusion power generation, are (always) a mere 2 decades into the future.In other news, one of the first commercial Maglev systems built, a people mover at Birmingham UK airport, was replaced by A CABLE CAR system a decade ago (AirRail Link) .
But of course, since nation-wide Maglevs transport systems, just like sustained Nuclear Fusion power generation, are (always) a mere 2 decades into the future.In other news, one of the first commercial Maglev systems built, a people mover at Birmingham UK airport, was replaced by A CABLE CAR system a decade ago (AirRail Link) .
Well nuclear fusion both Hot Fusion and LENR has made some legitimate advancements in recent years and I think people are wrong to insult it. Maglev is ready today and is not in development more.
overall Since you appear to be knowledgeable in this technology, I'm curious as to peak power demand of a transrapid maglev in KW and the reactive power demand in KVAR. Would a maglev system be fed commercial power at various points along the line? What happens to the train if the system loses power suddenly? Thanks George
Since you appear to be knowledgeable in this technology, I'm curious as to peak power demand of a transrapid maglev in KW and the reactive power demand in KVAR. Would a maglev system be fed commercial power at various points along the line? What happens to the train if the system loses power suddenly?
Thanks
George
http://www.maglev2000.com/works/how-08.html#Question7
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=229580
Maglev's have different ways of dealing with it.
To expand a bit on what Caole wrote, the guideway will be very expensive as it has to be built within an accurate alignment and has to be maintained to that alignment. The latter may be the more difficult to overcome as the earth's surface moves a bit in many places (e.g. fault lines shifting, settling from changes in groundwater, etc). With a traditional railroad, the ballast provides a mean to make adjustments when the earth's surface does a little dance.
On other advantage of conventional rail is that it is far easier to get external power to the vehicle.
Another disadvantage of maglev (and very high speed rail) is air resistance - airplanes get around this by flying in lower density air. With another factor of two improvement in specific energy over currently available, though still experimental, Li-S batteries, short range electric airliners will become technically feasible. With careful design of the props, these airliners should be quiet. (FWIW, Li-S batteries are good for 450w-hr/kg)
- Erik
Firelock76 Besides, how you gonna run steam excursions on MagLev lines? I mean, let's keep it practical here!
Besides, how you gonna run steam excursions on MagLev lines? I mean, let's keep it practical here!
The thing that makes Maglev prohibitively expensive is the need for a dedicated guideway and the cost of acquiring right-of-way for it. Too many NIMBY and BANANA types along proposed routes who can drag land acquisition through the courts for years on end.
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