zugmann Andrew Falconer What about a machine that is claimed to be a "Processing Machine" that in fact can only be used to fatally injure humans? If it has not yet been ruled illegal, but it has been in the news, will the railroad stop delivery of parts and materials? So what is this product? I was thinking maybe it was an automobile.
Andrew Falconer What about a machine that is claimed to be a "Processing Machine" that in fact can only be used to fatally injure humans? If it has not yet been ruled illegal, but it has been in the news, will the railroad stop delivery of parts and materials?
What about a machine that is claimed to be a "Processing Machine" that in fact can only be used to fatally injure humans? If it has not yet been ruled illegal, but it has been in the news, will the railroad stop delivery of parts and materials?
So what is this product?
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Andrew FalconerWhat if some Chemical Combination is claimed to be one safe product, but the CUSTOMER is loading something extremely toxic between processing plants? Then it is sold to Consumers as something different entirely. A Bait and Switch scenario on everybody. Does the railroad board and CEO ever step in and say "not on our railroad".
You mean, like shipping cigarettes?
BroadwayLion Andrew FalconerWhat if some Chemical Combination is claimed to be one safe product, but the CUSTOMER is loading something extremely toxic between processing plants? Then it is sold to Consumers as something different entirely. A Bait and Switch scenario on everybody. Does the railroad board and CEO ever step in and say "not on our railroad". You mean, like shipping cigarettes?
Johnny
Still curious what the OP was referring to in starting this thread.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Amtrak Passengers should be Hazmat.... Humans diseases spread by migration have killed more then then all the Hazmat spills combined.
There are numerous Agricultural-Chemical revised compounds that are no longer what the big companies claim they are shipping.
When the customer is willing to pay Millions of Dollars to the transportation company, there must be no responsibilty or liablity on the transport company to ever know how the end product is used or who it used upon. The Customer is always the boss.
The railroad workers are supposed to be servants who do not get involved in what the smart people in management have planned. You have to follow orders without questioning the end result. The people who are presidents and board members know what is best for the country.
Employees are not paid to think or question what the end result is. Employees are paid to take any direction. Everyone has to maintain a narrow focus on their job.
Eventually they want to replace most employees with automation. It means that no one can ever get involved.
Andrew
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Andrew Falconer There are numerous Agricultural-Chemical revised compounds that are no longer what the big companies claim they are shipping. When the customer is willing to pay Millions of Dollars to the transportation company, there must be no responsibilty or liablity on the transport company to ever know how the end product is used or who it used upon. The Customer is always the boss. The railroad workers are supposed to be servants who do not get involved in what the smart people in management have planned. You have to follow orders without questioning the end result. The people who are presidents and board members know what is best for the country. Employees are not paid to think or question what the end result is. Employees are paid to take any direction. Everyone has to maintain a narrow focus on their job. Eventually they want to replace most employees with automation. It means that no one can ever get involved. Andrew
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zugmannAgriculture-chemicals. Like what? Specifics, please.
I know of one substance which in this country is shipped simply as a compressed gas, but in Canada is shipped as an inhalation hazard: ammonia. Of course, its composition has not been changed over the years. I understand that it is so classied in this country because so much of it is used as fertilizer.
Bonas,
That might be the funniest, yet oddly most accurate and truthful post you have ever made!
23 17 46 11
edblysard Bonas, That might be the funniest, yet oddly most accurate and truthful post you have ever made!
tomikawaTT Andrew Falconer What about a machine that is claimed to be a "Processing Machine" that in fact can only be used to fatally injure humans? If it has not yet been ruled illegal, but it has been in the news, will the railroad stop delivery of parts and materials? Simply stated - NO. Note the item I marked in red. Railroads are common carriers, not part of the judicial system or the legislature. Also, without its appropriate ammunition, even a Barrett Cal .50 sniper rifle that can deliver a bullseye at 2.7 kilometers is nothing but a heavy, awkwardly-shaped club.
Simply stated - NO. Note the item I marked in red. Railroads are common carriers, not part of the judicial system or the legislature. Also, without its appropriate ammunition, even a Barrett Cal .50 sniper rifle that can deliver a bullseye at 2.7 kilometers is nothing but a heavy, awkwardly-shaped club.
Chuck,
You left out one important detail with with respect to the Barrett, the rifle is only capable of hitting a target at 2.7 km when handled by a shooter with the appropriate training and practice.
As for common carrier status, I would imagine that Espee management would have loved to be able to refuse the shipment of Metam Sodium that got dumped into the Sacramento River some twenty years back. A reasonable compromise might transferring liability to the manufacturer/shipper/customer for extremely hazardous materials.
- Erik
erikemAs for common carrier status, I would imagine that Espee management would have loved to be able to refuse the shipment of Metam Sodium that got dumped into the Sacramento River some twenty years back.
Metam sodium is the third most commonly used agricultural pesticide (by weight) in the U.S. A spill of 19,000 gallons of metam sodium into the Sacramento River in 1991 clearly demonstrated that a major uncontrolled release can have adverse ecological and human health effects. Furthermore, this incident revealed that estimates of Reference Exposure Levels for the major breakdown product of metam sodium (methylisothiocyanate, MITC) were reasonable with regard to the induction of discomfort. In fact, the irritant properties of MITC seem to account for many of the most commonly reported symptoms in this incident. However, neurotoxicity may also account for some of these symptoms. There is evidence that metam sodium can act as a contact sensitizer in humans, inducing allergic dermatitis. It also may exacerbate or induce respiratory allergy (asthma). The ecological impact of routine use of metam sodium is not clear, but adverse effects on non-target plants have been inferred from modeling studies, and adverse effects on soil microbes have been observed. These issues deserve further study. Human health effects of occupational or routine environmental exposure to metam sodium are not known, but there is limited evidence for immunological (hypersensitivity) and developmental effects as well as irritation and associated symptoms. Animal studies suggest a potential for immunological, developmental, carcinogenic, and atherogenic effects. Metam sodium and some of its breakdown products have a wide variety of molecular and cellular actions that could explain the health effects noted here. However, further studies are needed to relate specific molecular or cellular actions to specific health effects.
Not all that bad as far as bad stuff goes, AFIK it is still used in agriculture.
Still, don't bring that stuf around my zoo.
ROAR
Andrew FalconerWhat sort of illegal and dangerous activities by CUSTOMERS will actually cause the railroad management to actually get involved?
Well, *I* have decided that my railroad will no longer carry NEWSPRINT, because someone might use them to print something that I am opposed to on it.
Everybody has to pay their bills or lose their jobs. There are very few jobs left, because many managers controlling the USA railroads from Canada have decided to put the railroaders in a very precarious position where there are not enough people working . Nobody has enough time and money actually stop and think about the changes that have happened in the past 30 years. They are too busy doing the work of 3 people.
High Fructose Corn Syrup is among the commodities that no longer contains just what is on the label banded on the bottom of the tank car. There are heavy metals getting into this compound.
With all the money that is being saved by cutting employees, they can hire some old employees back to do Mass Spectrometer testing of Tank Car loads. It all has to be tested to be certain that the Railroads are not held accountable as a party involved in shipping false and contaminated substances sold by the mega-merger Agriculture-Chemical companies.
Andrew.
While they're at it, they can check every piece of coal, to make sure it's not just a dirty rock in disguise.
Tank cars are cleaned, sealed and certified by car cleaning companies. They will do a good job because they do not want to be blamed if a product is contaminated. If BigAgra puts a contaminated product into the car, that is not the responsibility of the railroad or the car cleaning company. Neither will ever know of it.
Firms that receive product by rail must inspect and test the product that they are accepting.
If corn products have heavy metals in them, it was probably in the corn to begin with having been in the soil where the corn was grown.
OK, so you cannot eat corn or corn products, or any food products shipped by rail. Fruits have also been treated, so you cannot eat those. Beef and other meats have been genetically altered, and while you cannot blame the railroad, you still cannot eat the meat. What about trace elements or even drug contamination of water. PBCs have been found in the waters all over the planet.
Me thinks you will just wither up and die, since you cannot eat anything anymore.
BroadwayLion Tank cars are cleaned, sealed and certified by car cleaning companies. They will do a good job because they do not want to be blamed if a product is contaminated. If BigAgra puts a contaminated product into the car, that is not the responsibility of the railroad or the car cleaning company. Neither will ever know of it. Firms that receive product by rail must inspect and test the product that they are accepting. If corn products have heavy metals in them, it was probably in the corn to begin with having been in the soil where the corn was grown. OK, so you cannot eat corn or corn products, or any food products shipped by rail. Fruits have also been treated, so you cannot eat those. Beef and other meats have been genetically altered, and while you cannot blame the railroad, you still cannot eat the meat. What about trace elements or even drug contamination of water. PBCs have been found in the waters all over the planet. Me thinks you will just wither up and die, since you cannot eat anything anymore. ROAR
Lion, since it is profit over safety, a very good analysis of the problem.
Ken
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Ian, you made excellent points. Everyone, from the writer of the bill of lading, the packer of the goods, the conductor (or the truck driver) who accepts the shipment to anyone else who handles the shipment has to know what must be done and what must not be done so that in the event of a mishap the emergency response people will know how to respond to the event. I wonder how many lawyers who are called in in the event of a mishap know what precautions have been taken by the shipper and the carrier.
Incidentally, I do not recall that any heavy metal that might be expected to be in a foodstuff had officially been declared hazardous--though I have not kept up with changes in the past six and a half years. Perhaps Andrew can bring us up to date on this matter.
Andrew Falconer With all the money that is being saved by cutting employees, they can hire some old employees back to do Mass Spectrometer testing of Tank Car loads.
With all the money that is being saved by cutting employees, they can hire some old employees back to do Mass Spectrometer testing of Tank Car loads.
That's assuming you can train the former employees to correctly interpret the results of a mass spectral analysis.
Abby does it, at least 3 times an hour, plus a DNA culture and print match!
Murphy Siding While they're at it, they can check every piece of coal, to make sure it's not just a dirty rock in disguise.
At export coal terminals, the inbound shipments are tested by surveyors prior to dumping from rail cars so that the consignee knows the metalurgical content of the coal they are receiving and the also know the metalurgical content of the coal they expected to receive - if they don't receive what they are paying for, the Shipper has hell to pay. No commodity shipments change hands without the consignee knowing specifically what they are actually recieving. If the product is not up to spec, the shipment is refused.
BaltACD Murphy Siding While they're at it, they can check every piece of coal, to make sure it's not just a dirty rock in disguise. At export coal terminals, the inbound shipments are tested by surveyors prior to dumping from rail cars so that the consignee knows the metallurgical content of the coal they are receiving and the also know the metallurgical content of the coal they expected to receive - if they don't receive what they are paying for, the Shipper has hell to pay. No commodity shipments change hands without the consignee knowing specifically what they are actually receiving. If the product is not up to spec, the shipment is refused.
At export coal terminals, the inbound shipments are tested by surveyors prior to dumping from rail cars so that the consignee knows the metallurgical content of the coal they are receiving and the also know the metallurgical content of the coal they expected to receive - if they don't receive what they are paying for, the Shipper has hell to pay. No commodity shipments change hands without the consignee knowing specifically what they are actually receiving. If the product is not up to spec, the shipment is refused.
What if they find a meteorite?..
blownout cylinder Murphy Siding While they're at it, they can check every piece of coal, to make sure it's not just a dirty rock in disguise. What if they find a meteorite?..
Murphy Siding blownout cylinder Murphy Siding While they're at it, they can check every piece of coal, to make sure it's not just a dirty rock in disguise. What if they find a meteorite?.. And it's full of heavy metals?
Or had some strange virus?
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