This following excerpt describes how the NTSB wanted alerters that could not be reset while asleep. But the effort was ultimately thwarted by the preference to wait for Positive Train Separation:
The Safety Board has closely examined the role of alerters. In the collision of two Norfolk Southern Railway freight trains at Sugar Valley, Georgia, on August 9, 1990, the crew of one of the trains failed to stop at a signal. The Board concluded that the engineer of that train was probably experiencing a micro-sleep or was distracted. Based on testing, it was determined that as the train approached the stop signal, the alerter would have begun an alarm cycle. The Board concluded that the engineer “could have cancelled the alerter system while he was asleep by a simple reflex action that he performed without conscious thought.” As a result of the investigation, the Board made the following recommendation to the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA):
R-91-26
In conjunction with the study of fatigue of train crewmembers, explore the parameters of an optimum alerter system for locomotives.
The FRA responded to this recommendation on June 28, 1993, advising that it had “awarded two contracts to develop proposals to modify the existing alerter systems so that they cannot be reset by reflex action.” In a followup letter dated August 12, 1997, the FRA told the Safety Board that while a proposal for a prototype had been developed, the contractor had advised the FRA that “they could not see a market for the device large enough to justify its further development.”
The FRA advised the Safety Board that it believed that the lack of a market was due to the FRA’s own “announced determination” to support positive train separation technology. As a result, the Safety Board classified Safety Recommendation R-91-26 “Closed—Unacceptable Action” on November 4, 1997.
The above quoted from this link:
http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2007/R07_8.pdf
I'm not sure that you can separate the two.
As I believe has already been discussed, one of the worst things a night shift worker can do (even one who is not on rotating shifts) is to try to "day shift" on his/her days off.
Having been a shift worker, I can identify with this fully.
A cardinal rule of rotating shifts is to always shift forward, ie, days to eves, eves to mids, mids to days. Apparently the body can better adjust to this. Another consideration is length of shift, days-wise. Rotating weekly is going to be far more stressful than monthly, or as we worked, six weeks at a time.
It would benefit the body of knowledge to know if someone who works a night shift consistently for long periods has the same issues as one who rotates through periodically.
All that said - it is about circadian rhythms - and a host of other issues which affect one's ability to fall asleep. Anyone who has stayed at a motel near a busy highway can identify with that. Especially if the bedding is different than what they are used to.
And none of this addresses the railroad issue of irregular work hours, sleep interruptions, and what-have-you, all of which has also been discussed.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I detect that the findings from the study of sleep disorders have shifted over the last ten years or so in a rather fundamental way. Previously, the belief was that sleep lost to inadequate sleep each night was cumulative, and would form a so called “sleep deficit.” The sleep deficit would make it harder to stay awake during the normal waking hours, and would continue to do so until it was paid back by getting enough extra sleep to offset it. So the fundamental cause was a loss of sleep for whatever reason. A person could suffer from this no matter what time of the day or night they slept.
Now, the thinking seems to have shifted to the premise that night shift work places the body out of phase with the circadian rhythm, and this has several negative health effects including insomnia. The loss of sleep due to insomnia then causes fatigue during the waking hours. So now the fundamental cause is nightshift work. Most interestingly, this seemingly revised definition of sleep disorders makes the problem much harder to remedy.
LION agrees with this. LION is always sleepy, and is good thing he does not try to run locomotives at night.
Yesterday, I went into the church (1630) to read scripture a half an hour before Mass, but could not keep my eyes open. I closed the book and went to my room to drink some Diet Pepsi and to rest a few minutes before Mass. During Mass (1700) I was nodding off and after Mass I went to the cafeteria, set out meds for those who needed meds, took one look at the steam table (rice, chicken, peas) and decided: No, lets go an take a nap instead.
I went to my room, took off my habit and put on my C-PAP mask. I did not put fresh water in the machine: I would only rest two hours until Vespers.
At 11:30 (2330) I awoke because the machine had gone dry (and puts out a gross smell for some reason). I was still tired, I refilled the machine, set out a fresh bottle of Diet Pepsi, but my pajamas on, and slept through to 0500. When I awoke I finally felt rested. And that was after 11 hours of sleep.
Now what would have happened if I was trying to operate a locomotive during this time.
ROAR
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Here is an interesting account of sleeping on the alterter and reflexive resetting:
7. The 2004 Macdona Accident, and Automatic Behavior Syndrome
Additional insight on “alerter naps”, microsleep episodes, and the limitations of conventional activity-based alerters can be found in the 2006 NTSB investigation report of a collision between two freight trains in Macdona Texas at 5:03AM on June 28, 2004 [25].
The engineer and conductor of an activity-based alerter equipped32 freight locomotive had both accumulated significant sleep debt33. The engineer had been driving slowly west bound, fighting sleep for at least 45 minutes prior to the accident, and the conductor was probably fully asleep. Evidence suggests the engineer had a microsleep episode, but roused himself and made a precautionary speed reduction using dynamic brakes and slowed the train to 22 mph.
However, thereafter he apparently drifted in and out of micro-sleep. He made inappropriate successive throttle increases, and the train speed increased to 44 mph. He failed to sound the horn at two crossings, ignored successive approach and stop wayside signals, did not dim his headlight as he passed the head end of an eastbound freight moving in the opposite direction on the adjacent siding. More importantly, he failed realize that the oncoming freight might not be fully off the main track.
Two minutes later he collided with the middle of the eastbound consist34. NTSB investigators noted the engineer “remained sufficiently alert to make train control inputs yet [was] unable to respond to vitally important signal indications. [This] could be explained by the fact that making such inputs and manipulating the alerter are highly practiced, nearly reflexive, motor responses that require only lower level cognitive effort.
During the engineer’s transition from wakefulness into the normal perceptual disengagement of unintended sleep, his capacity for information processing would have been severely compromised. Thus, he could have been able to continue the reflexive control activities, while being unable to perform the higher level cognitive tasks of extrapolating information from the signal indications.”
The NTSB’s interpretation of the Macdona engineer’s behavior during micro-sleep episodes is supported by clinical descriptions of “Automatic Behavior Syndrome (ABS)” [26] common among patients who complain of excessive daytime sleepiness for various medical reasons35. In ABS, periods of automatic behavior last from seconds to hours, and have been polysomnographically correlated with repetitive micros-sleep periods. “The episodes typically involve the continuation of an activity that does not require extensive skill…The state will develop more easily if the patient is doing a monotonous task…An example is driving an automobile for more than a few miles….The patient is usually fighting against a feeling of drowsiness, and becomes less aware of his actions as performance deteriorates…Simple answers to simple questions [may appear normal] but attempts at complex answers are abortive and inappropriate. Actions which do not require skill will be performed satisfactorily albeit in a semi-automatic way; however if a sudden and well-planned decision is required, the patient will be unable to adapt appropriately to the new demand.
Amnesia is a very common characteristic…A patient cannot remember what has happened during these episodes, though he may have some images like a “broken movie.. The notion of time is completely annihilated…patients may think that a very few seconds or minutes have elapsed when sometimes several hours have passed.” [26]. It has been suggested that automatic behavior is an admixture or rapid oscillation between waking and non-REM sleep states. [27] There is enough wakefulness to perform complex behavior, but not enough for conscious awareness of them [28].
The above is quoted from the following link starting at page 20:
http://mvl.mit.edu/MVLpubs/OmanLiu_AlerterTechnologyAssessment_2007.pdf
zugmannBut once we automate everything, nobody will be working, so nobody will have any money to buy anything, so we won't have to transport anything. It all works out, I guess.
Not really. The long haul crew jobs may disappear, but once the trains arrive at a terminal or a yard, they will need full crews. With efficiencies comes more business, which means more work, it is just not the same work.
You build the train, attach the road locomotives, and the railroad does the rest.
Train comes in, you detach and service the road units, switch your train and do what is needed.
All of those local freights need at least one crewman. That is what they pout on some of those things out here... You run the train to the customers siding, climb off of the train and run it with the remote, open and closed fences, gates, switches, couple and uncouple. Inspect the train, the brakes, the hoses and gland hands. There is and will always be a lot of work, but we get rig of long road jobs, letting the machine do that..
LION does not see work going away.
mmmmmm...I could see this develop into a movie plot....HAL9000 being created to drive the cap.....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
zugmann Bucyrus That is correct. But once we automate everything, nobody will be working, so nobody will have any money to buy anything, so we won't have to transport anything. It all works out, I guess.
Bucyrus That is correct.
But once we automate everything, nobody will be working, so nobody will have any money to buy anything, so we won't have to transport anything. It all works out, I guess.
Well if it is any consolation, I expect the PTC mandate to delay this Orwellian development to replace human control of trains. Clearly there is a trajectory leading to this objective that was being advanced as rapidly as possible by the most efficient means of decision making and research investment. But the PTC mandate displaces that efficient progress by imposing a ham handed, bureaucratic approach that is bound to stymie the meaningful progress.
Zugmann,
That is logical. But somehow things have not worked out that way. Today more things are automated than we have ever had in all of our history. But we are not poorer than we have ever been in our history.
John
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy SidingBucyrusMurphy SidingNow it's morphed into a PTC Cap ! It will indeed morph into PTC. The two are converging technologies. PTC will also morph into train operation such as throttle and speed control for responding to signal indications as well as other running conditions. And ultimately, there won’t be a need to monitor sleep and alertness because there will be nothing left for those deficiencies to jeopardize. Nor would there be a need to have anyone- asleep, awake, or otherwise- in the cab.
BucyrusMurphy SidingNow it's morphed into a PTC Cap ! It will indeed morph into PTC. The two are converging technologies. PTC will also morph into train operation such as throttle and speed control for responding to signal indications as well as other running conditions. And ultimately, there won’t be a need to monitor sleep and alertness because there will be nothing left for those deficiencies to jeopardize.
Murphy SidingNow it's morphed into a PTC Cap !
It will indeed morph into PTC. The two are converging technologies.
PTC will also morph into train operation such as throttle and speed control for responding to signal indications as well as other running conditions.
And ultimately, there won’t be a need to monitor sleep and alertness because there will be nothing left for those deficiencies to jeopardize.
There is a prototype for this hat, I've found. Here's a picture:
Bucyrus Murphy SidingNow it's morphed into a PTC Cap ! It will indeed morph into PTC. The two are converging technologies. Ultimately, the sleep alerter function of PTC will need to monitor brain waves and other physiological data just as the currently developing advanced alerters will do in the meantime. PTC will eliminate the need to call signals because it will not depend on human response to signals. PTC will also morph into train operation such as throttle and speed control for responding to signal indications as well as other running conditions. Furthermore, it will make signal indications obsolete because there will be no need to visually indicate signals to trainmen. And ultimately, there won’t be a need to monitor sleep and alertness because there will be nothing left for those deficiencies to jeopardize.
It will indeed morph into PTC. The two are converging technologies. Ultimately, the sleep alerter function of PTC will need to monitor brain waves and other physiological data just as the currently developing advanced alerters will do in the meantime.
PTC will eliminate the need to call signals because it will not depend on human response to signals. PTC will also morph into train operation such as throttle and speed control for responding to signal indications as well as other running conditions.
Furthermore, it will make signal indications obsolete because there will be no need to visually indicate signals to trainmen. And ultimately, there won’t be a need to monitor sleep and alertness because there will be nothing left for those deficiencies to jeopardize.
John WR Murphy Siding Now it's morphed into a PTC Cap ! Maybe, just maybe, some consideration could be given to allowing railroad engineers and conductors to get an occasional night's sleep.
Murphy Siding Now it's morphed into a PTC Cap !
Maybe, just maybe, some consideration could be given to allowing railroad engineers and conductors to get an occasional night's sleep.
Common sense? In a discussion like this one?
I'm a bit amused no one has put the last two suggestions together. If the PTC cap controls the engineer's brainwaves, and the PTC cap can run the train, why not set the cap up so it ENCOURAGES the engineer to get needed sleep, or appropriate quality sleep for the minimum safe time (determined for that person's individual characteristics), and then operate the train safely during the interval of sleep? Fire up some 'Russian sleep-inducer plates' attached strategic places on the cap, if dormitive activity is not initiated in the software-specified time interval, or does not persist with high assurance for the appropriately-determined requisite duration?* Not much different, and probably "safer" by Government statistical measurement methods, than having the conductor do a bit of ghost-running.
What may be still more amusing is having the engineer call the signals while asleep, as the cap controls his speech. Would this be like Saberhagen's berserkers, or the voice of Colossus?
* I can translate this into actual English if anyone has trouble speaking military-industrial...
Murphy Siding zugmann Maybe we can just train the cap to run the trains? It would be a short technological jump to just have the cap control the engineer's brain waves. They'll start with your brain waves, and pretty soon they're messin' with your precious bodily fluids.
zugmann Maybe we can just train the cap to run the trains?
Maybe we can just train the cap to run the trains?
Is that when you would need a drool cup?
Now it's morphed into a PTC Cap ! It will also function a *black box* in the event of an accident-similar to airline black boxes. It will be able to record the level of awakeness in brain located just below the Black Box Cap upon impact. What's more, it becomes a usefull tool to weed out those individuals not acceptable for train service AND those the railroad wishes to send down the road for whatever reasons. I'd wager that anybody wearing a Black Box Cap for a 12 hour shift will have at least one instance of having the red-alert! alarm go off. The Black Box Cap will be able to tell if the engineer is awake. It won't be able to tell if he is paying attention to the signals. Maybe, you're barking up the wrong tree. The technology should be used to have the train read the signal, and convey the information to the engineer-loudly if neccessary: ##DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! RED SIGNAL AHEAD!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! RED SIGNAL AHEAD!!##
Murphy SidingEarlier, you mentioned the Smart Cap would help weed out who shouldn't be operating a train due to a tendency to have sleep issues. Now, you're changing your tune, and saying the Smart Cap should be used to wake up the engineer when he falls asleep???
The SmartCap or similar smart alerter system can do both, and it will be used for both purposes. It will act like a wakeup alarm just as the current alerters do, but unlike current alerters, the smart alerter will not just give timed alarms as a wake up test in case an engineer is sleeping.
Instead, the smart alerter will only alarm if an engineer is sleeping because it will be able to tell if a person is sleeping. It will also be able to determine if a person is engaged in any of those half asleep, daydreaming, distracted modes of consciousness that you mentioned, and will alarm for those too.
So for the alerter function, this smart alerter will do everything that is needed to assure alertness. It cannot be reset reflexively by a sleeping person, and it will completely monitor consciousness from wide awake, fully alert to sound asleep and everything in between.
And the smart alerter will also capture all of the information that it picks up in monitoring employees. This information will be part of an employee’s record, and it will be analyzed for indications of sleep disorders or simply fatigue resulting from neglecting proper rest.
So yes, it will be a tool for diagnosing sleep disorders as I predicted a year ago, and it will also be real time consciousness monitor that can stop the train if it finds the engineer incapacitated or even distracted to a significant degree. It really fulfills every need in this topic of operator fatigue in safety sensitive work.
With the current alerters, an engineer can fall asleep 100 times a shift and if it does not result in an accident, nobody will ever know. With the smart alerters, the 100 instances of falling asleep will be recorded and be added to an employee’s record.
It also eliminates the need and purpose of inward facing cameras, but I wonder what labor unions will say about the intrusiveness of the smart alerters.
jeffhergertThere is, and has been for many years, a rule requiring crew members to call signals to each other when they come into view.
Maybe we should adapt some traditional railroad safety practices into our own personal lives.
John WR BroadwayLionIn Japan, the operator must point at each signal, and SING ALOUD its aspect. All of this is being recorded by Big San in the control room. Maybe if we WORSHIP the signals they will act like oracles and tell you what is going to happen to you next. PS. Lion, I find your idea here fascinating. We might also use it when driving or other parts of our lives. I drive my 3 year old grandson home from nursery school. When we come to a stop light or even a stop sign I point it out to him simply because I want him to learn about his surroundings. But maybe I am also increasing my own alertness to these signals. John
BroadwayLionIn Japan, the operator must point at each signal, and SING ALOUD its aspect. All of this is being recorded by Big San in the control room. Maybe if we WORSHIP the signals they will act like oracles and tell you what is going to happen to you next.
PS. Lion, I find your idea here fascinating. We might also use it when driving or other parts of our lives. I drive my 3 year old grandson home from nursery school. When we come to a stop light or even a stop sign I point it out to him simply because I want him to learn about his surroundings. But maybe I am also increasing my own alertness to these signals.
There is, and has been for many years, a rule requiring crew members to call signals to each other when they come into view. We don't have to point, yet. Some railroads require signals to be called over the radio. (We don't have to call all signals, only certain ones.) Conductors on our freight trains are required to keep a Conductor's Log that (among other certain items) includes all signals more restrictive than a clear. Under certain conditions, they must even log a clear signal. I would think other railroads also require some sort of log being kept.
Jeff
Here is a paper discussing alerters:
Here is a quote from the piece that discusses resetting alerters by reflex action:
“Alerters installed on new locomotives today require about the same level of cognition as those that existed when the Safety Board closed Safety Recommendations R-99-53 and -59. Typically, alerter alarms occur more frequently as train speed increases.13 Unlike the Sugar Valley accident in which the train had slowed and entered a siding before overrunning a signal, the northbound train in the Anding collision remained on the main track at higher speeds. Had an alerter been installed, there was a 4-minute time period after passing the approach signal during which the alerter would have activated four to five times. It seems unlikely that the engineer could have reset the alerter multiple times by reflex action without any increase in his awareness. Therefore, an alerter likely would have detected the lack of activity on the part of the engineer and sounded an alarm that could have alerted one or both crewmembers. Had the crew been incapacitated or not responded to the alarm, the alerter would have automatically applied the brakes and brought the train to a stop. The Safety Board concludes that had an alerter been installed on the lead locomotive of the northbound train, it may have prevented the collision in Anding.”
Bucyrus Murphy Siding, How am I splitting hairs? The point of an alerter is to wake up the engineer. If it can't do that, what good is it? What is needed is an alerter that knows when a person is sleeping and only alerts when sleep occurs. It would be like the SmartCap I mentioned earlier.
Murphy Siding,
How am I splitting hairs? The point of an alerter is to wake up the engineer. If it can't do that, what good is it?
What is needed is an alerter that knows when a person is sleeping and only alerts when sleep occurs. It would be like the SmartCap I mentioned earlier.
tree68 BroadwayLion In Japan, the operator must point at each signal, and SING ALOUD its aspect. All of this is being recorded by Big San in the control room. Before I read the Sodoku comment, it had occured to me that the next step in resetting alerters might be a "password" on a keypad. It might be something as simple as the locomotive number, or something as complex as an individually assigned code. Another option would be to require some other more complex action (ie, something like CNTL+ALT+DEL on a computer) that would be that much more difficult to complete without being cognizant of one's surroundings.
BroadwayLion In Japan, the operator must point at each signal, and SING ALOUD its aspect. All of this is being recorded by Big San in the control room.
In Japan, the operator must point at each signal, and SING ALOUD its aspect. All of this is being recorded by Big San in the control room.
Before I read the Sodoku comment, it had occured to me that the next step in resetting alerters might be a "password" on a keypad. It might be something as simple as the locomotive number, or something as complex as an individually assigned code.
Another option would be to require some other more complex action (ie, something like CNTL+ALT+DEL on a computer) that would be that much more difficult to complete without being cognizant of one's surroundings.
That is an improved type of alerter known as the “Cognitive Alerter.” It requires an engineer to prove he is awake by performing some process that requires enough thought that the reset cannot be done as automatic reflex when asleep.
But there is another step in alerter evolution in which the alerter is connected to brain function and eye movement, so it can simply know whether the engineer is sleeping or awake, and also know degrees of alertness while being awake.
This is not too difficult to execute with a person sitting at the controls of a locomotive because the monitoring equipment does not need to be portable. It would be more difficult to make it portable for use by switchmen, for instance. I am not sure if the SmartCap can be used in that portable mode. But if they have it built into a hat, portability can’t be too far off.
BroadwayLionThis has nothing to do with sleep as you are trying to define it. It has to do with drowsiness, attention to the railroad, and being alert and aware of your surroundings.
You suggest, Lion, that there are a number of alertness techniques. Knowing them could be helpful to many people in situations that locomotive engineers find themselves in.
I once took a memory course. I don't use all of the techniques I learned. For example, I do not need to walk into a room full of strangers and quickly learn all of their names. However, it is helpful to remember the names of people I meet at a party when I may well meet 6 to 10 new people.
Some things I learned are: 1. Listen to the name. I can never remember what I did not know in the first place. If the name is not clear to me I ask the person to spell it. 2. Repeat the name. Having learned your name I will say "It's good to meet you, Lion." 3. Form an image with the name and place that mental image on the person's head or some other obvious place. Some names are harder to form images for than others, especially unusual names. You need to work at it. You have a name that is easy to form an image for; so do I. 4. Look for opportunities to repeat the name. 5. If possible write down the name.
The point of this is that there are also techniques to maintain alertness and you suggest some that I have never heard of. It is woth working on.
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