My first impression is that I use Amtrak a lot which puts me in the middle of Downtowns and if there is something going on downtown I can expect a lot of delays by being forced to open and reopen my backpacks and luggage as I tranfers between modes of public transport...anyone else?...There goes my privacy
When it comes to travel our civil rights are long gone. The Federal Government is even unable to stop its own people from stealing from the luggage that goes on planes. However, so far there have been no extensive searches outside of planes. In Israel, where there are even armored public buses, they have not found a good way to search people on public transit.
Bonas My first impression is that I use Amtrak a lot which puts me in the middle of Downtowns and if there is something going on downtown I can expect a lot of delays by being forced to open and reopen my backpacks and luggage as I tranfers between modes of public transport...anyone else?...There goes my privacy
It must be awful to have to unzip that backpack all the time, I can't even image the turmoil you will have to go through.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
As long as you have your luggage in your possession, you probably won't have any problems. Anxiety will be heightened, but methinks most folks have a fairly reasonable attitude.
If you leave your backpack unattended somewhere, though, I'd expect some issues. If there's one thing that a lot of these incidents have in common, that's it.
As the posters say - if you see something, say something. Just try to avoid paranoia.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
How will the Boston bombing affect your traveling? Probably it won't be any more of a hassle then it is (or isn't) now.
Has anyone noticed what I've noticed? When 9/11 happened there was shock, outrage, fear, and fury. I don't seem to be seeing that much now, at least on the same scale. Not quite, but almost a quiet "what again?" reaction. Are we getting hard to this stuff? I wonder.
I'll tell you, it's going to take some hard detective work to find this maniac. Best of luck to them! Maybe they'll get a lucky break.
Firelock76I'll tell you, it's going to take some hard detective work to find this maniac.
Maybe, just maybe, that hard work is already paying off.
I hope so John, please God I hope so.
Wayne
Simply put it won't!
The Orange County Sheriff's Department had a bomb sniffing dog patrolling one of the Amtrak stations yesterday and the handler was leading the dog to sniff backpacks and computer cases. Based on news reports of what happened in Boston, unattended backpacks and similar items are going to get a lot more scrutiny in public places.
- Erik
America will have another panic attack. Politicians will pass some more rules and laws to pander to all those frightened voters, and life will go on.
As long as Americans are willing to trade liberty for the illusion of safety, it will continue until we have neither liberty nor safety.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
RudyRockvilleMDSimply put it won't!
I agree that the Boston bombing will not have an effect on our ability to travel. But it probably will have an effect on the conditions of our travel. We could well see more security personnel and have more checks of our luggage.
erikem Based on news reports of what happened in Boston, unattended backpacks and similar items are going to get a lot more scrutiny in public places.
Even before the Boston attack it should have been axiomatic for any traveler: Do not leave any luggage, package or even an envelope unattended. Keep your stuff with you unless you ride Amtrak and check it.
Phoebe VetAs long as Americans are willing to trade liberty for the illusion of safety, it will continue until we have neither liberty nor safety.
A well stated principle, Dave. But I do not suggest insisting on it or quoting it to any safety officer. That is, unless you want to be detained while you miss whatever connection you were trying to make.
John WR Phoebe VetAs long as Americans are willing to trade liberty for the illusion of safety, it will continue until we have neither liberty nor safety. A well stated principle, Dave. But I do not suggest insisting on it or quoting it to any safety officer. That is, unless you want to be detained while you miss whatever connection you were trying to make.
Which actually underscores my point about which is the greater threat, the occasional criminal attack or unlimited power for government agents in the name of safety.
So if no security actions were taken - nobody would bomb. Interesting theory.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Phoebe VetWhich actually underscores my point about which is the greater threat, the occasional criminal attack or unlimited power for government agents in the name of safety.
David,
I don't like having to go through the government security any more than anyone else. But in the Boston Marathon terrorist attack 3 people were killed and about 140 injured. Injuries include losing limbs. I think that is a greater threat. A much greater threat.
John
RudyRockvilleMD Simply put it won't!
Well, obviously the Boston area residents who were curfewed into their houses while the manhunt for fugitive #2 was underway, appreciate that the answer is more complex than your simply stated opinion.
John WR I think that is a greater threat. A much greater threat. John
I think that is a greater threat. A much greater threat.
I dunno about that, there seems to be a war of attrition waged by our authorities against our constitutional privileges. And it seems that once those rights have been suspended, our government is increasingly loathe to return them. That to me appears to be a threat of far greater consequence, since it affects everyone, and ongoing in time.
In that sense, the terrorists are destroying the true America.
John WR Phoebe VetWhich actually underscores my point about which is the greater threat, the occasional criminal attack or unlimited power for government agents in the name of safety. David, I don't like having to go through the government security any more than anyone else. But in the Boston Marathon terrorist attack 3 people were killed and about 140 injured. Injuries include losing limbs. I think that is a greater threat. A much greater threat. John
Like I said, first Americans will have another panic attack...
As long as there are humans there will be criminals. There will always be people who want to hurt other people. Giving up our rights and freedom will not change that. That's why we employ police officers.
As long as the US military is occupying foreign countries and killing people there, occasionally some of them will bring it to our shores. Giving up our rights and freedom will not prevent that. Killing more of them will not prevent that.
Methinks somebody is placing the cart not only in front of the horse, but a long way up the road from the horse.
Some random musings of my own....
I don't recall a significant US involvement with the goings on in Chechnya, the Boston incident has more religious overtones. Dealing with that is outside of the scope for this forum.
The suspects in this incident were found via recordings from security cameras, expect even wider applications of this technology as the cost of storage continues to drop. Spy agencies are finding out that covert operations are becoming a lot more difficult because of the increase in surveillance cameras. A possible compromise between civil rights and security can be had by overwriting the recordings if no crime was reported.
We probably will become a lot more paranoid about untended bags.
Finally, a lot more people died in the fertilizer plant explosion in Texas than were killed in Boston.
My postings so far have been generic, addressing only the general direction America had been traveling.
The only red flag I have seen involving this particular incident is the fact the the Federal Government has announced it's intent to use a "special team of interrogators to interview him without allowing him his rights as delineated in Miranda. They even have a name for it. They call it a "special public safety interrogation".
That is a giant leap down the slippery slope.
Phoebe Vet That is a giant leap down the slippery slope.
Hardly. That's something that's always existed.
NittanyLion Phoebe Vet That is a giant leap down the slippery slope. Hardly. That's something that's always existed.
It didn't exist when I was a police officer.
According to news reports he's an American and therefore entitled to Miranda. Were he a foreign national that may differ.
Norm
Ernesto Miranda was not an American.
The opening of the Miranda majority opinion set a grave tone:
The cases before us raise questions which go to the roots of American criminal Jurisprudence: the restraints society must observe consistent with the Federal Constitution in prosecuting individuals for crime. More specifically, we deal with the admissibility of statements obtained from an individual who is subjected to custodial police interrogation and the necessity for procedures which assure that the individual is accorded his privilege under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution not to be compelled to incriminate himself.
They can, of course, interrogate him outside of his rights, but nothing they obtain in that interrogation can be used against him in court.
In this case, what was the practical reason for witholding the Miranda reading?
The only explanation that I have heard is that they did it for national security. How does witholding Miranda support national security?
Speculation on my part: If there is evidence that the brothers were not acting alone, then allowing the brother to contact someone else could pose a security risk - a lesson from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
erikem Speculation on my part: If there is evidence that the brothers were not acting alone, then allowing the brother to contact someone else could pose a security risk - a lesson from the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
What do you mean by "allowing the brother to contact someone else"? Do you mean speaking to a lawyer?
I definitely can see why the bombing would be considered a national security threat. There does seem to be an undercurrent of information indicating that the two suspects were not acting alone, and that has international implications. The attack was fairly obviously a terrorist attack. So the gravity of the situation might call for some unsual suspension of rights.
I am just trying to get a handle on the reasoning of withholding Miranda. I have also heard that the interrogation of the suspect will be different than normal, and done by a special team of interrogators. This seems similar to the issue of trying someone in our justice system versus trying that person as a military combatant. However, that specific issue cannot apply to the Boston bombing. I just cite it as an example of a departure between two systems of justice.
So I would like an explanation of the planned handling of the surviving brother’s case, and how that handling may be rather unique.
The smart thing to do would be to "Mirandize" the little SOB and just get it out of the way, at least so there's no further issues. This assumes he's willing to talk to begin with, and I wouldn't bet on it. Chances are if he's lived here in the US for enough years and watched enough cop shows he knows his Miranda rights anyway, but why risk any complications.
What I WOULD like to see is the suspect tried in Federal court. Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty, Federal law still allows it.
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