EMDs new creation

[oltmannd]

Mr. Railman

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Look at the locomotive...what is the first thing that comes to mind when viewing this locomotive?

http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/2-sidersENG_LTR_proof_rev5RevE.pdf 

It needs a better paint job.  White paint?  Bad idea.  Anyone remember NJT's first "disco" attempt?

[oltmannd]

NittanyLion

MikeF90

  For a variety of reasons Amtrak can't seem to maintain its loco fleet well enough to risk running one engine per train. 

I didn't bother to do the math yet, but I'd wager that more than half of Amtrak's trains do operate with one engine per train.

...or should.  To your point, all the Empire Service trains are single unit, as are Piedmonts, Pennsylvanian, Carolinian, Palmetto (?),  and all the California Amtrak trains.  The Maine trains have one unit plus a "cabbage" as do the Talgos in WA/OR.  Others?

[oltmannd]

MikeF90

NittanyLion

I didn't bother to do the math yet, but I'd wager that more than half of Amtrak's trains do operate with one engine per train.

That may be true, but it doesn't make me happy.

IMO they should buy / use two units with lower power prime movers rather than one 4700 HP monster, especially for the long, thin LD routes. 'Two' is a number I like to see in reliability engineering.

This is a corridor locomotive.  Fuel capacity is too low for LD trains.  

4700 HP, less a couple hundred for HEP should be enough for one unit per train on the 110 mph Michigan and IL trains.  They are buying "California Cars" for these routes so they'll be cab cars on the other end of the train.  Might actually make these trains more energy efficient than driving.

I'd guess we'll be seeing P42s and Superliners on the LD trains for several more decades.  There is no new technology that renders the current equipment obsolete.  Just keep rebuilding in kind... Save the capital for new corridor services.

[TooeyB]

CSSHEGEWISCH

The compound curves of the bulldog nose are expensive since they have to be shaped virtually by hand.  How much of a premium would the builder charge for this sort of option?

Once the die is made,  the cost of running them shouldn't be that much more. The up front cost of making the die might run a little more, and once the dies are worn and require replacement the questions of "do we want to pay for this again?" might come up.

But, "retro" has it's appeal to the aging boomers

[oltmannd]

MidlandMike

They seem to make a point of  "fabricated trucks".  As opposed to cast(?) trucks?

Saves some weight but costs a bit more.  P42s, AEM7s have fabricated trucks.

[Anonymous]

CSSHEGEWISCH

TooeyB

You know what would be real cool?  Since the heritage concept has been a winner everywhere it has been tried, why not have them produce a generation of passenger locomotives with the sheet metal resembling  the old "E" series of the 40s and 50s?

The compound curves of the bulldog nose are expensive since they have to be shaped virtually by hand.  How much of a premium would the builder charge for this sort of option?

The compound curves are shaped by die forming in a press.  The dies are custom tooling which adds cost, but special tooling is also required for large radius straight bends found on many locomotives.  There are also compound curves on smaller parts of most locomotive bodies. 

The hand work on EMD F and E unit noses was adding the fillet radius at the base of the headlight casing.  I understand that detail was made by placing bondo and hand grinding to form.  The headlight casing was a separate formed steel part that was welded into a hole in the nose form, and then the fillet radius was hand-made around the casing over the weld. 

There is a finanacial incentive to eliminate compound curves because it avoids tooling cost, but there are still several of them in the EMD rendering of the new passenger locomotive shown here.  If you try to eliminate compound curves, you end up with that edgy Russian locomotive look. 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

TooeyB

You know what would be real cool?  Since the heritage concept has been a winner everywhere it has been tried, why not have them produce a generation of passenger locomotives with the sheet metal resembling  the old "E" series of the 40s and 50s?

The compound curves of the bulldog nose are expensive since they have to be shaped virtually by hand.  How much of a premium would the builder charge for this sort of option?

[Ulrich]

Milk carton on wheels..

[ramrod]

1959 VW Bus

[BarstowRick]

samfp1943

Mr. Railman

Powered by CAT.

Look at the locomotive...what is the first thing that comes to mind when viewing this locomotive?

http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/2-sidersENG_LTR_proof_rev5RevE.pdf 

Folks; I think that EMD is about to usher us into another new era...

The original F's and E's were IMHO pretty stylish for their time. 

 They worked hard, looked good on the job leading the rail industry into a more modern era as they put steam into the markers of time.  Then came the G Ps and they were truly General Purpose products..They were the JEEPS of their time.

    What they are offering the Industry now is a FLYING BRICK BAT

I think this means you are agreeing with some of our expressed observations...right?

Oh, and how right your are.

[TooeyB]

You know what would be real cool?  Since the heritage concept has been a winner everywhere it has been tried, why not have them produce a generation of passenger locomotives with the sheet metal resembling  the old "E" series of the 40s and 50s?

[Ulrich]

Impressive stats but ugly. some nifty industrial design would be much appreciated.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

While EMD's bulldog nose is considered to be quite stylish, it was expensive to fabricate and as such is not a real example of good industrial design, which considers production techniques in addition to esthetics.  The GE-Alco flatnose (in all of its permutations) was a better example since it was much easier and less expensive to fabricate.

[samfp1943]

Mr. Railman

Powered by CAT.

Look at the locomotive...what is the first thing that comes to mind when viewing this locomotive?

http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/2-sidersENG_LTR_proof_rev5RevE.pdf 

Folks; I think that EMD is about to usher us into another new era...

The original F's and E's were IMHO pretty stylish for their time. 

 They worked hard, looked good on the job leading the rail industry into a more modern era as they put steam into the markers of time.  Then came the G Ps and they were truly General Purpose products..They were the JEEPS of their time.

    What they are offering the Industry now is a FLYING BRICK BAT

[blue streak 1]

NittanyLion

I didn't bother to do the math yet, but I'd wager that more than half of Amtrak's trains do operate with one engine per train.

The number of trains with one loco is the wrong metric.  Instead measure the train miles with one loco.

All the superliner equipped western trains with the exception of the EAGLE ( someone correct me if it has changed ) use 2 or more loco.  The Southwest chief actually needs 3 to get over Raton as scheduled.  The most important item for the long distance trains amounts to time keeping. Was on a Cal Zephyr that had only one operating loco and it just barely made it up the front range from Denver barely staying above the 1 hr limitation of slow speed overload even with HEP shut down.  Then loco OK but failed again and could not make it up Helper grade.  Made us very late and crew dying on law.

By the same token most of the east coast single level trains have 2 locos.  Someone will have to lets us  know if the Palmetto & Carolinian have one or two.  So a lot of train miles from the long distance trains.

Now the shortage of locos are well known.

1.  The maintenance errors of P - 42 trucks has left many out of service until trucks from P-40s can be transferred.. No indications of when or if the broken P-42 trucks will be repaired.

2.  The storage of P-40s when the express track service was terminated.

3.  The P-40 restoring to service program was not completed & see #1..

 

The short distance trains all seem to have just one loco as most of their routes are rather level except for the San Diego trains and they climb is on a very slow track speed.  If the San Joaquin trains were extended from Bakersfield to LAX they would all need another loco to climb Cajon hill.

 

AMTRAK does not like to operate NEC regional trains longer than 8 - 9 cars so as to maintain their timekeeping with 1 motor ( AMTRAK motors also in short supply ).  The trains on the NEC going south of WASH can be longer as they are scheduled on a slower timetables -- departing WASH / NYP  just behind the regional trains. 

A report from the Texas Eagle Marketing & Performance Org  (TEMPO ) several years ago stated that it would take somewhat under $1M to add a second loco to the EAGLE when there still were spare locos.  The 4 locos for the Eagle would mean $250,000 per train set or about $700/ day per train set.  The May Trains mag states that one additional car could be added without a second loco but AMTRAK seems very reluctant to do so. 

 Tempo would like to see a second sleeper and another coach especially in winter for Arizona snowbirds.

The purchase of 35+ new AC locos may mitigate the loco shortage however testing, & expected break in period will probably probably mean at least 2-1/2 years before line service. .  

 

[MikeF90]

NittanyLion

I didn't bother to do the math yet, but I'd wager that more than half of Amtrak's trains do operate with one engine per train.

That may be true, but it doesn't make me happy.

IMO they should buy / use two units with lower power prime movers rather than one 4700 HP monster, especially for the long, thin LD routes. 'Two' is a number I like to see in reliability engineering.

[Norm48327]

The Japanese Bullet Trains look much better.

[BarstowRick]

Yuck!

No railroad wants to risk having a unit break down without having a back up on board.    Amtrash on the other hand has issues that are typical of a government trying to run a business.    They have no business doing so.

Seems I've seen that nose before.    Yeah, no, not that, yep, it could be.  (Light bulb)  My Hoover Vacuum Cleaner...that's it!

Gosh, if only we could see a new order of locomotives that resembled the PA's, FA's, or even the F and E types.    I'd even go for a reproduction of the FP45 types.   

However, they didn't ask me what I thought.

 

[NittanyLion]

MikeF90

  For a variety of reasons Amtrak can't seem to maintain its loco fleet well enough to risk running one engine per train. 

I didn't bother to do the math yet, but I'd wager that more than half of Amtrak's trains do operate with one engine per train.

[Deggesty]

I don't think this one will do; it does not even have the artempt a ditch lights.

[MikeF90]

eagle1030

On a more serious note, will this loco end Amtrak's practice of putting two engines on a 110 mph train (i.e., Illinois, Michigan)?

I hope NOT!  For a variety of reasons Amtrak can't seem to maintain its loco fleet well enough to risk running one engine per train. Last night the eastbound Sunset Ltd was over an hour late out of Lost Angeles.   Until some fantasy time when their uptime improves, the power should be split between two engines even if it is a higher marginal cost.

I see that this new product is powered by a Caterpillar C175-20 - any long haul track record on this engine? Maybe CAT could build up some good will and useful experience by letting AMTK run a couple for a year gratis; have another engine DIT or positioned as spares (hah).

I say, get function (reliability) before form (looks).

[Anonymous]

http://cars.about.com/od/toppicks/ss/Least-Expensive-Cars_3.htm

 

[seppburgh2]

I love you, you love me.... it's Barney, he's back with a smile!

[Deggesty]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Mr. Railman

Powered by CAT.

Look at the locomotive...what is the first thing that comes to mind when viewing this locomotive?

http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/pdf/2-sidersENG_LTR_proof_rev5RevE.pdf  

GE's Genesis/ P42 series.  That poor design continues to propagate - geez, I hope there's not a whole generation of folks now thinking that's a 'normal' train ! 

Noted railroad industrial designers Raymond Loewy, Henry Dreyfuss, Otto Kuhler, et al., must be rolling over in their graves (or contemplating coming back as Zombies !!!  )  

- Paul North. 

Paul, let's hook the designers you named up to electricity generators and solve the power problem.

[blownout cylinder]

Murphy Siding

     Wonder bread.  2# loaf, white.

That was what i was thinking....

[Murphy Siding]

     Wonder bread.  2# loaf, white.

[blue streak 1]

What is this one up manship in model numbers ??  Call it a F-12.

[SD70M-2Dude]

Looks to be based on the DE and DM30AC's that Long Island operates, I wouldn't be surprised if the same frame and body shell are used.

[Anonymous]

The EMD F-unit nose was an unusually inspired design style.  Baldwin proved that a good looking front end is not easy when they brought out their baby face design.  FM proved it too.