BucyrusYes I know what type of cars you are referring to. I think they were called pot hoppers. Do they look like this?--
Your pictures are of the last pot hoppers used in the late 1920's. They ones I saw were similar but were much smaller and used in the 1840's or 50's.
John WR BucyrusWhy were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies? Bucyrus, I can't answer the "why" question. But in my mind's eye I see a picture of a short car with two vertical round containers sitting on top. The containers appear to be fixed to the car and part of the car. And the car is described as a "coal jimmie" or "jimmy." My best recollection is that I saw this picture in a book about the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. John
BucyrusWhy were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies?
Bucyrus,
I can't answer the "why" question. But in my mind's eye I see a picture of a short car with two vertical round containers sitting on top. The containers appear to be fixed to the car and part of the car. And the car is described as a "coal jimmie" or "jimmy."
My best recollection is that I saw this picture in a book about the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad.
John
Yes I know what type of cars you are referring to. I think they were called pot hoppers. Do they look like this?--http://www.borail.org/BO-No23001.aspx
These seem to be linked to the B&O, but I wonder if other roads ran them too.
The basic jimmy was a four-wheel car. It was a box on two axles, and four wheels. I think most, or all, of them had spring suspension over each of the four wheels.
Jimmies and Jenniew were a part of the hopper class. So the very early pot hoppers could probably be rightly called jimmies.
tree68 So where does that leave us ferroequinologists?
So where does that leave us ferroequinologists?
Surprisingly close to the siderohippologists previously mentioned... ;-}
The former is Latin, the latter is Greek -- both are 'excessively literal'.
[As an aside: back before Vatican II there was apparently a department in the Catholic bureaucracy somewhere which was tasked with developing Latin expressions for things like 'atomic bomb' and 'railroad locomotive'. I only heard about this at some remove, from one of my Latin masters (who didn't go into it much), but apparently the term used for express train was 'celer currus vaporis' No mention of the 'horse' , or the 'metal', at all.]..
And for fun with pedantic semantics:
"Fear the iron way" -- never!
But "shun the iron way" 9i.e. stay off the track and don;t step on a rail) -- better sense.
Overmod efftenxrfe The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel." Not the first time an almanac is flat-ass wrong. Sidero = iron Dromo = track or way (as in 'hippodrome', 'velodrome', etc. Phobia = suffix conventionally used for sense of fear or abhorrence No room for 'taxi(d)' in that word for journey, travel, or movement. Is there?
efftenxrfe The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel."
The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel."
Not the first time an almanac is flat-ass wrong.
Sidero = iron
Dromo = track or way (as in 'hippodrome', 'velodrome', etc.
Phobia = suffix conventionally used for sense of fear or abhorrence
No room for 'taxi(d)' in that word for journey, travel, or movement. Is there?
Actually, fear of the iron way or track makes sense.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
efftenxrfeBucyrus, it's eERIEe, that responses in this thread that suggest to you that ore jennies are not documented haven't said something that could have been accepted as reference... not fact, granted.
My point was that the terms, as applied to ore cars, are undocumented by dictionary definition. Certainly they are documented in terms of common usage. But without dictionary documentation, the origin of the terms is unknown unless somebody happens to know the history of the origin. Nobody here has been able to explain why ore cars are called jimmies and jennies. So until I discover the origin, I consider the origin to be lost history.
Bucyrus, it's eERIEe, that responses in this thread that suggest to you that ore jennies are not documented haven't said something that could have been accepted as reference... not fact, granted.
One more ride, Way out there, Pioneer's Children
The terms, Jimmy and Jenny have established meanings, both proper and slang, but both appear to be completely undocumented regarding the reference to railroad ore cars. So I conclude that the origin of both terms in reference to ore cars is 100% lost history.
That status is quite rare among railroad terminology and slang. Off hand, I can’t think of any other uniquely railroad related terms having that status.
efftenxrfe Jennies....somewhere in a moss-covered corner of memory, it seems that "jenny" was associated with burro's, donkeys, mules.....
Jennies....somewhere in a moss-covered corner of memory, it seems that "jenny" was associated with burro's, donkeys, mules.....
I've seen "jenny" used as a name for a female burro, as in "jacks" (I assume short for "jackass", for males) and "jennies".
Overmod, your response I appreciate and welcome it because it makes me feel good, which is what i tried to do for the rest of us..
Divert, divulge and discourse....'mean't that," If this forum isn't written to be serious historical reference, and isn't declared to be, have fun with it, why not?
tree68 BaltACDNever heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. http://crcyc.railfan.net/crrs/gon/gonore.html
BaltACDNever heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any.
http://crcyc.railfan.net/crrs/gon/gonore.html
Guys who I talked to (who worked for Conrail and used to haul the things to Bethlehem) always called them Jennies. Never heard of "jimmies", except for the truck.
Now there are Jimbos...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
efftenxrfe I came across this: It blew me up, but it's germain: the word is "siderodromophobia."
I came across this:
It blew me up, but it's germain: the word is "siderodromophobia."
Surely on this list you mean 'siderodromophilia'...
Was it in MR years ago that someone mentioned that the study of narrow-gauge steam locomotives was stenosiderohippology?
Commendable that everyone's resisted changing the spelling and mentioning GM trucks and diesel engines!
Good looking could be descriptive of the Jennies SP supplied for the Kaiser Steel ore trains between Fontana and Eagle Mountain....the outside ribbing and angularity of the car sides worked for me.....
The def.. is on page 176 of an annual book that I bought here in the Sierra Nevada Foothills for less than $7.00 on a Rite-Aid Magazine shelf.
BaltACD Bucyrus There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock. Never heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. Never thought of them as 'handsome', ugly with a purpose comes redily to mind.
Bucyrus There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock.
There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock.
Never heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. Never thought of them as 'handsome', ugly with a purpose comes redily to mind.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I gather that “Jimmy” does refer to a four-wheel ore car, and “Jenny” refers to eight-wheel ore cars. However, it also appears that the eight-wheel ore cars are sometimes called “Jimmies.” Likewise, the Jimmies might have been alternatively called Jennies, but the Jimmies disappeared with the advent of the Jennies, so there were no Jimmies to refer to as jennies.
Jimmies continued to be used far beyond the discontinuance of the other four-wheel cars.
Jimmies often ran in relatively long trains. According to John White’s The American Railroad Freight Car, one source mentions a train of 225 jimmies in 1891. In 1879, a train of jimmies 1.5 miles long was run. This train consisted of 593 jimmies.
Another name for flat cars was Platform Car.
zugmann Maybe the term isn't as common as I thought. Learning something new means we aren't dead!
Maybe the term isn't as common as I thought. Learning something new means we aren't dead!
I suspect that it's a "local" thing, if you will. Those who have interest or other contact with steelmaking from mining to steel mill in the midwest have probably heard the term. Others not so much.
The info on the spinning "gin" (which might carry over to the cotton "gin") is telling, however, indicating that a perhaps archaic term or bastardization morphed into the "jenny".
John WR zugmannNever heard of an ore jenny? Not until I encountered the term on this forum. I've learned something new here.
zugmannNever heard of an ore jenny?
Not until I encountered the term on this forum. I've learned something new here.
No way....
John WR I've never heard of the word "Jenny" used in a railroad context. However, Samuel Slater memorized the design of a "spinning jenny" and came to the US with it. He opened a spinning mill in Pawtucket, Rhode Island using the new technology. The term actually means "spinning engine." Originally it was 8 spinning wheels which used hooks to give roving (cotton fibres) a twist that would hold them together and create 8 cotton threads.
I've never heard of the word "Jenny" used in a railroad context.
However, Samuel Slater memorized the design of a "spinning jenny" and came to the US with it. He opened a spinning mill in Pawtucket, Rhode Island using the new technology. The term actually means "spinning engine." Originally it was 8 spinning wheels which used hooks to give roving (cotton fibres) a twist that would hold them together and create 8 cotton threads.
Never heard of an ore jenny?
So now we're searching for the ore jenny origin?
Heh.
BucyrusWhat about a Jenny?
John WR I've always seen the word "Jimmie" refer to a small 4 wheeled gondola used to haul coal during the early days of railroading.
I've always seen the word "Jimmie" refer to a small 4 wheeled gondola used to haul coal during the early days of railroading.
What about a Jenny?
A quick search of the 'Net yielded no information regarding the source of the terms "jennies" or "jimmies," but it did reveal that fact that while jennies in the Iron Range area were bottom dump hoppers, on the Pennsy, they were gondolas, which the Conrail Cyclopedia refers to as "Jimmies."
The mud thickens...
I would opine that these are terms for which the origins are lost to antiquity. I would suggest, however, that said source may have little or nothing to do with gender, being instead a corruption of some other term.
My reference to railroad terminoloy dictionary says Jimmy is a four-wheel ore car, but it seems like have seen eight-wheel ore cars referred to as Jimmies as well as Jennies.
In any case, why call an ore car a Jimmy or a Jenny? Do ore cars have gender?
If track frog is named after the hores's foot, it is named by resemblance. If it is named after jumping the wheels, it is named by function. Either one seems plausible, but several other things are named frog with no apparent connection to appearance or resemblance. So it seems uncertain to conclude its derivation comes from either function or resemblance.
I think the current 'consensus' about the horse's frog is that it resembles a hard V with wings (corresponding to how the rails come off the point casting). As noted, the derivation is probably from the triangular shape of the batrachian.
I did look to see whether this could be a mistranslation from a foreign term, as "quill" instead of 'spring' is a mistranslation from German in 'quill drive'. Don't see anything likely, but other eyes and wits may be sharper...
I forgot about jennies.
Bucyrus Why were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies?
Why were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies?
Same reason 4-axle ore cars are called Jennies?
The railroad frog could be derived from the horse's foot. They do have a resemblance to each other. Apparently the origin of the horse foot term, frog is also uncertain. I can't see any reason why it would be called a frog. I am inclined to go with the wheel jumping that a track frog causes.
Oddly, another meaning of frog is that weight with with holes in it that you place in the bottom of a vase, and put the flower stems into the holes. Go figure.
&ei=6JxhUfb9L4a0qgGRuIGQCg&psig=AFQjCNFNdfK29rbz1RVi pxxLqE 481Gg&ust=1365438056867402
Can't seem to link it as an image, so click the link to see the bottom of a horsey's lil' footsie... See the part labeled "frog" and how it resembles the RR switch frog.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
There are quite a few different meanings of the term frog, and its origin. But the dictionary lists the track term frog being of uncertain origin circa 1850.
It is curious because other track terms such as spike, rail, tie, tie plate, joint bar, switch, guardrail, switch point, anti-creeper, etc. all have an obvious linkage to meaning and origin. But frog stands alone.
Frogs (the animal) are notorious jumpers, and a railroad frog does cause a wheel to jump a gap. I believe that linkage is the most convincing explanation of the term's origin. If so, it is pretty clever.
Norm48327 Bucyrus Where did the track term, frog come from? Ever see a frog jump?
Bucyrus Where did the track term, frog come from?
Where did the track term, frog come from?
Ever see a frog jump?
I have been told that the bottom of a horse's hoof is called the Frog and looks very much like the RR switch "frog". Since the early makers of track and other equipment were often Blacksmiths, whose primary occupation often dealt with fitting shoes on a horse, it is natural for the term to have been used to describe the RR switch frog.
I have no idea why the bottom of a horsey's li'l' footie is call a frog!
Norm
As noted in another thread: auxiliary tenders.
Water bottles.
A-tanks.
Gins.
Insert more as needed...
They still "tie down" trains. Crews still "tie up". I've heard it said on the old Wheeling, they didn't tie up, they "docked'. Don't have any idea how a nautical-sounding term came to be used.
Also, instead of being in the siding, I believe it was common on the NKP to consider yourself "in the pass". I've been told that wasn't a common phrase on other roads. Of course, "going in the hole", was also a known phrase and I'm not talking about the Rathole on the CNO&TP. Which reminds me, I don't think railroaders call it the Rathole, at least, not anymore
D&HRetiree We had "Dummy Masts" but no doll posts Caboose = Van = Buggy = Crummy (and many of them were!)
We had "Dummy Masts" but no doll posts
Caboose = Van = Buggy = Crummy (and many of them were!)
Johnny
I may have missed it but did any one mention:
All referred to essentiall the same thing (too complex to explain here).
And I don't think I saw anyone call conductors "brains" or the caboose a "brain wagon".
ChuckAllen, TX
Thanks, Jeff, for your research into Rule I.
As to GCOR's I, the 1950 Rock Island (also the authority on several other roads, including B-RI, T&P, MP, GH&H), has Rule L: " Constant presence of mind to insure safety to themselves and others is the primary duty of all employees and they must exercise care to avoid injury to themselves and others. They must observe the condition of equipment and the tools which they use in performing their duties and when found defective will, if practicable, put them in safe condition, reporting defects to the proper authority. They must inform themselves as to the location of structures or obstructions where clearances are close. When employees are on or near tracks, they must expect the movement of trains, engines or cars at any time, on any track, in either direction."
In the Rock Island book, Rule Q is similar in effect to KCT's I H, though quite different in wording: "Employees must report at the appointed time, devote themselves exclusively to their duties, must not absent themselves, nor exchange duties with or substitute others in their place without proper authority...."
Apparently in 1950 there was already the problem of employees using narcotics, since "The use of intoxicants or narcotics is prohibited. Possession of intoxicants or narcotics while on duty is prohibited."
As to "getting on the ground," I have always understood that this can occur anywhere on the property--out on the road as well as in a yard.
On the ground-when a freight car or engine ran off the tracks in the Yards.
Dad would come home and say "they put another one on the ground today" and we'd go back to work with him to see it and how they got it back on tracks.
Tallow pot-fireman
Brains-conductor
Bindlestiff- hobo or bum riding the rails, the knapsack he carried was called a bindle
Sidedoor Pullman-boxcar
Rule G- saw it talked about and had to add about a Frisco brakeman who violated it all the time. The crew who worked with him on third trick would dump him in an empty boxcar to sleep it off. I guess they didn't want to work with him, too dangerous. But one night, he was caught asleep by the Yardmaster and that was it, he was fired on the spot.
Lots of good ones on here, some I know, some I forgot and some I never knew.
Johnny, killing a little time and looking through my rule book collection, I did find a couple with a Rule I.
One is the Kansas City Terminal rules from 1971. There rule I reads, "No employee will engage in other employment without permission from proper office, or be allowed to do any work for himself or for others in working hours, nor in the shops of the Company, except with the permission of the department in which he is employed."
Another is the first and second editions of the General Code of Operating rules, before they went to a new numbering system and junked the traditional rule numbers. Their rule I reads, "Employes must exercise care to prevent injury to themselves or others. They must be alert and attentive at all times when performing their duties and plan their work to avoid injury."
I glanced at a few others, different railroads and eras, and the ones I checked didn't have a rule I. Generally, the rule books read about the same and the numbering is similar. There are differences, as shown by the two examples above, so sometimes it's hard to generalize about what rule is what number or how it reads. Another example is Rule H, usually about tobacco use but in the KCT 1971 rules it is used for reporting for and devoting one's self to duty. The KCT book also is one that uses the entire alphabet, A to Z for the general rules section.
Now for some more vernacular. On another thread I mentioned "chain gang" for pool service. I had mentioned that I was working the chain gang, but as of yesterday I'm back on the extra board. Not by choice. I didn't get "bumped," that is displaced by someone with more seniority. Instead, my turn and two others were "cut." When assignments to a board or pool are abolished, the board is said to be cut. I was "cut off" the board.
"Cut in" and "Cut out" are also used instead of saying turning something on or off. Before entering cab signal territory, we cut in the cab signals. When leaving cab signal territory, we cut them out.
Jeff
Murphy Siding zugmann- New, retro avatar? Joan Jett?
zugmann- New, retro avatar? Joan Jett?
Not quite, but there is a resemblance, I'll admit.
There's a logic to what I display, but that is not really important.
Jeff, I wish I could find my copy of the 1943 Southern Operating Rules; I hoped that I would find it while packing books for my move (I did find some other books and such), but it has not come to light; I have a vague memory that Rule I was in it. Now, if I can find certain books that should have been in boxes labeled to indicate what is in them.... It's exciting, determining what will fit into a much smaller living space after living in a house for thirty-eight and a half years.
I've read that steam engines with power reverse, at least some classes on the Pennsy, would allow the valve gear to drop to full forward as the air leaked out of the power reverse cylinder. This occured as the air pumps would have the steam cut off when the engine was bedded down for the night. If the throttle leaked, the results were obvious! Fortunately, there was a snifter valve (I think that's the right spelling) on the side of the cylinder that could be opened to allow sneaky steam to escape harmlessly. This was the round thingy near the inlet port to the valve chamber.
Semper VaporoThere is the story of one engine that was parked in a roundhouse and left overnight (no night crew) with the engine still hot. The throttle leaked and pressure built up in the cylinders until the engine rolled forward to the back wall which stopped the engine. Pressure continued to build until the wheels broke traction and spun wildly. The blast of exhaust up the stack blew the roof off the back of the roundhouse.
I remember this story -- and with a little care I can probably find the source.
Google 'Night Walkers' for more information on how this happened -- it obviously is not just a 'leaking throttle'. What would happen was that the engine would cool down at a different rate from the throttle LINKAGE which would push it ever-so-gently open. If you didn't have the valves with proper lap and the valve gear wasn't blocked in mid (to keep steam from getting into either end of a cylinder in the first place)... well, it would move. Usually not as extreme as in the story, which probably involved the valve gear dropping over time.
If you ever wondered why there was a reversing lever in an outside throttle rod, about in the middle -- that is how they fixed the nightwalking issue. The lever reverses the effect of differential expansion in half the rod... so the net movement is zero.
RME
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Deggesty Is Rule H (against use of tobacco by employees serving patrons at passenger stations or on passenger cars) still in the code of operating rules? I have the impression that this applied especially to chewing tobacco or dipping snuff--though I saw a conductor on a passenger train chewing, back in 1953. Does anyone know what rule I was?
Is Rule H (against use of tobacco by employees serving patrons at passenger stations or on passenger cars) still in the code of operating rules? I have the impression that this applied especially to chewing tobacco or dipping snuff--though I saw a conductor on a passenger train chewing, back in 1953.
Does anyone know what rule I was?
My oldest rule books (CB&Q 1900 and CRI&P 1904) don't have rule I. Either it was already deleted by then or may have never existed. They may have just skipped using I for a rule designation since in some printing fonts a J can be close to an I.
John WR tree68I'm not above having an adult beverage in the evening after a long, hot day, because I know I'm not on duty until the next morning. In any job behavior that is perfectly acceptable off duty is not necessarily acceptable if it interferes with work.
tree68I'm not above having an adult beverage in the evening after a long, hot day, because I know I'm not on duty until the next morning.
In any job behavior that is perfectly acceptable off duty is not necessarily acceptable if it interferes with work.
zugmann wjstix Most likely from the days of horses...like Western movies, where the cowboy rides into town and 'ties up' his horse to a hitching post. That makes sense. Never thought of it that way.
wjstix Most likely from the days of horses...like Western movies, where the cowboy rides into town and 'ties up' his horse to a hitching post.
Most likely from the days of horses...like Western movies, where the cowboy rides into town and 'ties up' his horse to a hitching post.
That makes sense. Never thought of it that way.
My 1953 B&O Rule Book (Updated to December 1964) states -
H. The use of tobacco by employees while on duty in or about passenger stations, or on passenger trains, is prohibited.
zugmann mudchicken Mud still sends tie-up wires via e-mail...Our office staff has associated that with Mud out in a cornfield lashed to a fencepost with barbed-wire (creates quite the visual) So where does the term "tie up" come from?
mudchicken Mud still sends tie-up wires via e-mail...Our office staff has associated that with Mud out in a cornfield lashed to a fencepost with barbed-wire (creates quite the visual)
Mud still sends tie-up wires via e-mail...Our office staff has associated that with Mud out in a cornfield lashed to a fencepost with barbed-wire (creates quite the visual)
So where does the term "tie up" come from?
Rule G is Rule G -everybody knows it (Know it, Love it, Heed it!)
(and the business car fleet has really thick shades in the cars)
The first six years of my railroad experience included dealing with a fellow engineering dept. employee that had a problem with alcohol & firearms. In spite of multiple attempts to straighten this person out, liver failure at age 42 was the result after the railroad gave up and fired the person as a last resort. Life lesson.
John WR I'm not sure where you are coming from here. I can easily understand why railroads would prohibit drinking on duty and even for a number of hours before you come on duty. In fact, I would be pretty surprised if such prohibitions did not exist.
I'm not sure where you are coming from here. I can easily understand why railroads would prohibit drinking on duty and even for a number of hours before you come on duty. In fact, I would be pretty surprised if such prohibitions did not exist.
The bottom line on alcohol is that if you get caught on a random test, that you blow a zero point zero. Ditto for the drug portion.
Presumably, your fellow crewmember(s) aren't going to want to work with you if you "smell like a brewery," unless they're all in on it. There was a time when that might well be the case. Any more, not very likely.
Metabolism times for alcohol are pretty whell known. If someone does have a drink at some point before going on duty, I'd opine that it will be far enough ahead of time that they won't have a problem passing a test.
I'm not above having an adult beverage in the evening after a long, hot day, because I know I'm not on duty until the next morning.
Bob,
At times in my life I've traveled around the country on Amtrak. Sometimes I've struck up conversations with off duty people working on the same train and I can recall some of those conversations were over a drink. At the time it did not occur to me that there could be a violation of railroad rules. But if rules were violated that is not a reason for the rules not to exist. There is no doubt in my mind about the rules about alcohol and, I am sure, other substances or that they are strictly enforced.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
John WR I don't want to trespass on sacred ground. However, it seems reasonable to point out that some railroaders are passengers and some passengers are railroaders.
I don't want to trespass on sacred ground. However, it seems reasonable to point out that some railroaders are passengers and some passengers are railroaders.
No trespassing against others here. However, there is still the point that there is not supposed to be any drinking on duty. I do not know whether 'deadheading' railroaders were expected to refrain from imbibing, but the general rule in many lines of business is that 'you're an ambassador of sorts (and not an embarrassador) for your company, and would be expected to show your high qualities and responsibility whenever in the public eye...
I would suspect there is No Alcohol Tolerated in crew dorms, even when the crewmembers in question are not 'engaged to be waiting'.
Now, railroaders who happen to be passengers on their own time -- they're no different from other passengers except they are much more likely to be knowledgeable than other passengers, and more interesting. But they are not on duty at that time, and presumably won't be marking on or subject to call in the immediate future...
Here is one defintion of the term. Like a lot of slang, there is overlap and gray area:
JERK A DRINK—Take water from track pan without stopping train. From this came the word jerkwater, which usually means a locality serving only to supply water to the engines of passing trains; a Place other than a regular stop, hence of minor importance as jerkwater town, jerkwater college, etc.
BroadwayLionA Jerkwater town was a place where the train did NOT stop to take on water, but rather took it on the fly from the track pans.
Both the bucket brigade and the track pan "definitions" seem to have validity per a search I just did. However, one find on the web search included the info that "jerkwater" was not a railroad term - it was a literary description. That may or may not be true in and of itself.
Apparently, though, there was the term "tank town."
One wonders how many people who saw the title of the Steven Segal movie understood the origins of "dark territory," rather than thinking it was a term of foreboding...
The track pan overflow issue for "riders" was apparently worse in the winter, where they might be able to hang on, but would, of course, be drenched and later be found frozen in place.
Maybe I missed them earlier, but how about:
In the hole - waiting on a passing siding
dark territory - unsignalled main track.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
A Jerkwater town was a place where the train did NOT stop to take on water, but rather took it on the fly from the track pans. They lowered the scoop and jerked the water from the pan into the tender. This was done at about 40 mph. When the tender was full, it sloshed out of the back vents to the discomfiture of any hobo riding behind the tender. At this point he usually fell off and died.
FOAMER-- Was used long before rail fans were a problem. It was a steam engine with foam in the boiler such as it could not get up a good head of steam.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Brass or Suits - RR officials
Go to beans - head to the beanery (cafe)
Peddler - local or way freight
Ballast scorcher - fast running engineman
Shack - brakeman
Lightning slinger - telegrapher
Gandy dancer - section hand
Telltales - what was their correct name?
Foamer - overly enthusiastic railfan
Diamond - rail crossing
Board - semaphore signal
Wipe the clock or bighole - emergency brake application
Join the birds - jump off the engine before a collision
Hot box - Overheated journal bearing (waste and oil on fire)
Knuckle - drawbar
Ride the rods - hobo
Teakettle - old locomotive
Throttle jerker - engineer
By the way I never knew of a railroader to say "cabeese". I think it is a term coined by railfans.
Drag -- slow freight train
Dog -- another slow freight train, usually unable to make it across the division before going on the law
Dogcatch -- crew called to relieve the dog that died on line
Had a old gandy once tell me a story about a PI (personal Injury) requiring a hospital visit, the admitting nurse asked him what was wrong and he told her "I was cuttin' the nuts of'n a frog and a piece flew up in my eye". Took a while to explain that one to her....
I remember reading somewhere (probably in the pages of our hosts somewhere) "Jerkwater Town". Way Back When, a town that was so small that the railroad didn't deem it large enough for a water tower, a passing train needing to take on water might stop and "Jerk water" from a nearby creek. It is my guess the jerk referred to yanking a bucket up with a rope, though in some cases it might refer to the one doing the pulling. Some short lines equipped the tenders with a pump (or so I'm told).
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
And, we have rabbits and frogs--two main types of frogs; one type is split into two subtypes.
Jeff, thanks for the illustrations of doll masts, doll posts, or whatever the individual roads call them.
I was a railroader, I understand what you're saying but I don't fully agree. I can't remember one conversation I ever had with a trackside observer that didn't eventually result with the fan to say something so outrageous that it would either make me laugh and, in one occasion, told him he'd best get off the property, because he had told me something so outrageous, so showing in lack of any operational knowledge, that I couldn't believe it. Perhaps you'll think my remarks harsh but that was my experience.
Having said that, I remember many who were little more than passengers but most of them didn't make a long term career out of it, they washed out or were shown the door for one reason or another.
OvermodPassengers, no matter how well they use the railroad vernacular, do not become railroaders when they do. Not even Rogers E.M. Whittaker.
Here's a few more: Flying switch, jerk it by , drop it by, high daddy. These terms all refer to the now, almost universaly prohibited practice of slinging a car from behind the engine into a facing point siding. Or, how about poling a car? Definately against the rules, now! We also used to say "take 20" or 20 minutes, refering to the allowed lunch period for yard jobs. Of course a man who works primarily yard jobs is a "yard bird". You don't carry a suitcase on the railroad. It's a grip. 12 hours puts you on the law, or you hoglaw or perhaps you "die" at some time or location. You "mark off" to take yourself "off the board", when you "mark back up" the crew caller will tell you your first out (or second or sixth out) with nothin' showing. A dwarf signal is not intended as an insult to a vertically challenged signal. What terms are not unique might be easier!
Some pictures of doll signals.
http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/dolls/index.htm
Thanks, Johnny & Brad. I'd never heard of them.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Paul of Covington Deggesty Another one: doll mast. Doll mast???
Deggesty Another one: doll mast.
Another one: doll mast.
Doll mast???
Doll Mast, Doll Post, Doll Arm.
If there's 3 tracks, and only 2 are signalled, a doll post would represent the 3rd unsignalled track.
John WRBut doesn't "railroad vernacular" include things that passengers would say too if they are talking about riding a train? When I say "I used to catch the 6:35 Clocker at Princeton Junction" am I using railroad vernacular or not?
People can use all the jargon they want. This is America. No one will come haul you off if you get 'salty' and use terms like "physics package" or "prompt excursion" -- on the other hand, it does not prove you work in the field when you do.
Passengers, no matter how well they use the railroad vernacular, do not become railroaders when they do. Not even Rogers E.M. Whittaker. (And a good thing too! I hear Clegg and Beebe saying, as they pour another one back in the private car...)
On DC's and my railroad, that terse telegraph language, was called "Kans-eese". (Cat need fixed, car needs repaired)
Now that I think about it, as others have suggested, the terse nature of railroad language probably was indeed shaped by the limitations of the telegraph. It was the tweeting of the day. When you think about it, train orders were pretty terse.
Deggesty Bucyrus Railroad language has a tradition of being terse. Yes, especially when communicating by Morse code, even when using a bug.
Bucyrus Railroad language has a tradition of being terse.
Railroad language has a tradition of being terse.
"Bug" is also used by hams for the Vibroplex keys.
Paul, at times it was advisable to locate a block signal at a point which had at least one non-signaled track between the signal and the track which was signaled. To show that the signal was not for the track(s) immediately beside the signal, a short mast for each such un-signaled track was attached to the right side to the signal mast; such a mastmay have had a blue light (no connection at all with the blue flag that says "do not touch these cars") at its top. Some railroads called it a "bracket."
The first doll mast I remember seeing was in Charlotte, N.C., in December, 1953, by the nb signal which was on the north side of Trade street. I asked a Southern employee what it meant, and he (not knowing himself) answered that it meant a train was coming. I have a vague memory of seeing another somewhere else. Carl Shaver commented, on another thread, that he saw one in the Eastern Terirtory a few years ago.
I thought someone would ask about quartering main drivers, but apparently all who have followed this thread know what and why the process is.
I'm sure the song refers to railroad passengers and really doesn't go beyond that.
But doesn't "railroad vernacular" include things that passengers would say too if they are talking about riding a train? When I say "I used to catch the 6:35 Clocker at Princeton Junction" am I using railroad vernacular or not?
John WR "See those rich folks sittin' in that fancy dinin' car They're prob'ly drinkin' whiskey and smokin' big cigars...."
"See those rich folks sittin' in that fancy dinin' car
They're prob'ly drinkin' whiskey and smokin' big cigars...."
But are they employees on duty, or even railroad management personnel on duty? I doubt it.
Remember this is railroaders' vernacular we're talking about, not passenger vernacular (like using 'George' for the porter... ;-} )
'Think before you strike', as Smokey used to say)
Overmod Better not make ANYTHING with whiskey on railroad property, however. This is railroad vernacular, not bartending vernacular.
Folsom Prison Blues by Johnny Cash
zardoz Paul of Covington Highball is a verb. Unless you make it with whiskey.
Paul of Covington Highball is a verb.
Highball is a verb.
Unless you make it with whiskey.
Paul of Covington Interlocking is a noun. Highball is a verb. One thing that kinda tickles me is the use of "...account..." instead of "...on account of..." I guess it was shortened for convenience when filling out forms.
Interlocking is a noun.
One thing that kinda tickles me is the use of "...account..." instead of "...on account of..." I guess it was shortened for convenience when filling out forms.
Overmod While we're at it: we might as well remember that 'hot-rod' is from a railroad source. A 'hotrod runner' was an engineer who went so fast or so hard ... or stopped his train so seldom for oiling maintenance ... that the rods would heat up. Logical to extrapolate this to non-conformists interested in running at high speed in other contexts...
While we're at it: we might as well remember that 'hot-rod' is from a railroad source.
A 'hotrod runner' was an engineer who went so fast or so hard ... or stopped his train so seldom for oiling maintenance ... that the rods would heat up. Logical to extrapolate this to non-conformists interested in running at high speed in other contexts...
That is very interesting. I had not thought about it lately, but I know that I have at times wondered what "hot rod" actually referred to as applied to cars.
Blue Jay. Back in the days when Jay Gould was active in railroading he would give employees notes written on his distinctive imprinted blue stationary. These notes were known as "blue Jays."
ValleyXHad it to the roof - Term used on some roads to say the engineer had the steam engine doing all it could do
While we're there, let's not forget the other half of the operation, 'had it in the company notch'
In the ditch - derailment
Had it to the roof - Term used on some roads to say the engineer had the steam engine doing all it could do
Join the birds - Jumping in the event of a cornfield meet
Shoot the bill - Placed the train in emergency
Dumped it - Same thing
Marked off - Taking days off on own account
Bumped or rolled - Displaced off a job by a senior person.
The Big O - Old time term for conductors, came from the Organization of Railroad Conductors
That's just a few that come to mind.
Railroad pie. A one dish meal made of ground meat, onion, a little salt and other things* cooked together in a skillet and topped with corn bread batter and baked until the corn bread is done. There are many recipes but you can add whatever you want to the beef and onions. Pour off the excess grease if there is too much.
Traditionally this is made in a black iron skillet but it can also be made in a casserole dish. It can be made in a Dutch oven with a depressed lid to hold hot coals and baked on a camp fire.
*for example corn, beans, peppers (sweet or hot as you prefer), cut up cooked potato and anything else you have handy.
FRED for Flashing Rear End Device.
Pinch bar
Ice gang
Sleepy R--- C.P.R.
Flanger
Goat
Time to test the modac:
Big-hole the Westinghouse
Bad joint
Lazy cock
Broken injector
Blown head
Humping (with the original location being Honeypot)
Oh, yes, but not done often today: quartering the main drivers.
Light engine; engine running light
Early quit
Screw the pooch
Tie up
Grab iron
Anglecock
Bad order
Big hole
Buckle the rubbers
Cornfield meet
Drop
Dutch drop
Flimsy
Flying switch
Saw-by
Shoo-fly
armstrong - manually powered; bad order; - beans; - big hook; - brownie; - drag; - drill; - drop; -Johnson bar; - kick; - leg (one half of wye); - meet; - cnfield meet; - cruimmy; dead head;; - gandy dancer; - highball; - in the hole; - on the ground; - outlawed; - sand house; - shoo fly; - varnish; - flimsy
Thats all for now
May you never be anywhere close to LORAM/SPENO when the stones learn to fly.
zugmann Let's list some of the railroadey terms for basic things. #1 has to be grinding stones for grinding wheels. Jitney = van fusee = flare tricks = shifts Go ahead.. add some more. We can even regional-ize or localize the railroadey terms if you want to.
Let's list some of the railroadey terms for basic things.
#1 has to be grinding stones for grinding wheels.
Jitney = van
fusee = flare
tricks = shifts
Go ahead.. add some more. We can even regional-ize or localize the railroadey terms if you want to.
The term "Grinding stone" is not specific to the Railroad industry, it is used for other types of grinding/polishing equipment but nowadays it may be somewhat archaic. If you Google search the term you will get a lot of hits for suppliers of industrial tools/supples, but when you go to the linked websites they are more commonly called wheels..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Yard Goat
Beanery
Mudchicken
Yellow Thingie
Are "carknockers " still alive and on the job??
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
Hey, wait a minute, that was my favorite stick....
Joint- coupling
Cover-buffer car
23 17 46 11
mudchicken ..or just chunk it. ...got a skate?
..or just chunk it. ...got a skate?
Nah, but there's a blocker.
zugmann When you place that placecar, be sure to tie one on, sting one on, tie it down, spin one on, and anchor it.
When you place that placecar, be sure to tie one on, sting one on, tie it down, spin one on, and anchor it.
Then you can spot a load.
Or you can place a car.
Then that car that you spotted can become a placecar. "Put the empties behind that placecar".
Rikers Yard How about hogger, or hog head for engineer. Bull= railroad detective, or cop, at least around here. Tim
How about hogger, or hog head for engineer.
Bull= railroad detective, or cop, at least around here.
Tim
zugmann cabins = caboose around here.
cabins = caboose around here.
caboose=cabeese
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
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