BucyrusYes I know what type of cars you are referring to. I think they were called pot hoppers. Do they look like this?--
Your pictures are of the last pot hoppers used in the late 1920's. They ones I saw were similar but were much smaller and used in the 1840's or 50's.
John WR BucyrusWhy were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies? Bucyrus, I can't answer the "why" question. But in my mind's eye I see a picture of a short car with two vertical round containers sitting on top. The containers appear to be fixed to the car and part of the car. And the car is described as a "coal jimmie" or "jimmy." My best recollection is that I saw this picture in a book about the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. John
BucyrusWhy were four-wheel ore cars called Jimmies?
Bucyrus,
I can't answer the "why" question. But in my mind's eye I see a picture of a short car with two vertical round containers sitting on top. The containers appear to be fixed to the car and part of the car. And the car is described as a "coal jimmie" or "jimmy."
My best recollection is that I saw this picture in a book about the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad.
John
Yes I know what type of cars you are referring to. I think they were called pot hoppers. Do they look like this?--http://www.borail.org/BO-No23001.aspx
These seem to be linked to the B&O, but I wonder if other roads ran them too.
The basic jimmy was a four-wheel car. It was a box on two axles, and four wheels. I think most, or all, of them had spring suspension over each of the four wheels.
Jimmies and Jenniew were a part of the hopper class. So the very early pot hoppers could probably be rightly called jimmies.
tree68 So where does that leave us ferroequinologists?
So where does that leave us ferroequinologists?
Surprisingly close to the siderohippologists previously mentioned... ;-}
The former is Latin, the latter is Greek -- both are 'excessively literal'.
[As an aside: back before Vatican II there was apparently a department in the Catholic bureaucracy somewhere which was tasked with developing Latin expressions for things like 'atomic bomb' and 'railroad locomotive'. I only heard about this at some remove, from one of my Latin masters (who didn't go into it much), but apparently the term used for express train was 'celer currus vaporis' No mention of the 'horse' , or the 'metal', at all.]..
And for fun with pedantic semantics:
"Fear the iron way" -- never!
But "shun the iron way" 9i.e. stay off the track and don;t step on a rail) -- better sense.
Overmod efftenxrfe The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel." Not the first time an almanac is flat-ass wrong. Sidero = iron Dromo = track or way (as in 'hippodrome', 'velodrome', etc. Phobia = suffix conventionally used for sense of fear or abhorrence No room for 'taxi(d)' in that word for journey, travel, or movement. Is there?
efftenxrfe The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel."
The word on page 176 of the OLD FARMER'S ALMANAC, Western edition, siderodromophobia, means fear of "train travel."
Not the first time an almanac is flat-ass wrong.
Sidero = iron
Dromo = track or way (as in 'hippodrome', 'velodrome', etc.
Phobia = suffix conventionally used for sense of fear or abhorrence
No room for 'taxi(d)' in that word for journey, travel, or movement. Is there?
Actually, fear of the iron way or track makes sense.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
efftenxrfeBucyrus, it's eERIEe, that responses in this thread that suggest to you that ore jennies are not documented haven't said something that could have been accepted as reference... not fact, granted.
My point was that the terms, as applied to ore cars, are undocumented by dictionary definition. Certainly they are documented in terms of common usage. But without dictionary documentation, the origin of the terms is unknown unless somebody happens to know the history of the origin. Nobody here has been able to explain why ore cars are called jimmies and jennies. So until I discover the origin, I consider the origin to be lost history.
Bucyrus, it's eERIEe, that responses in this thread that suggest to you that ore jennies are not documented haven't said something that could have been accepted as reference... not fact, granted.
One more ride, Way out there, Pioneer's Children
The terms, Jimmy and Jenny have established meanings, both proper and slang, but both appear to be completely undocumented regarding the reference to railroad ore cars. So I conclude that the origin of both terms in reference to ore cars is 100% lost history.
That status is quite rare among railroad terminology and slang. Off hand, I can’t think of any other uniquely railroad related terms having that status.
efftenxrfe Jennies....somewhere in a moss-covered corner of memory, it seems that "jenny" was associated with burro's, donkeys, mules.....
Jennies....somewhere in a moss-covered corner of memory, it seems that "jenny" was associated with burro's, donkeys, mules.....
I've seen "jenny" used as a name for a female burro, as in "jacks" (I assume short for "jackass", for males) and "jennies".
Overmod, your response I appreciate and welcome it because it makes me feel good, which is what i tried to do for the rest of us..
Divert, divulge and discourse....'mean't that," If this forum isn't written to be serious historical reference, and isn't declared to be, have fun with it, why not?
tree68 BaltACDNever heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. http://crcyc.railfan.net/crrs/gon/gonore.html
BaltACDNever heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any.
http://crcyc.railfan.net/crrs/gon/gonore.html
Guys who I talked to (who worked for Conrail and used to haul the things to Bethlehem) always called them Jennies. Never heard of "jimmies", except for the truck.
Now there are Jimbos...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
efftenxrfe I came across this: It blew me up, but it's germain: the word is "siderodromophobia."
I came across this:
It blew me up, but it's germain: the word is "siderodromophobia."
Surely on this list you mean 'siderodromophilia'...
Was it in MR years ago that someone mentioned that the study of narrow-gauge steam locomotives was stenosiderohippology?
Commendable that everyone's resisted changing the spelling and mentioning GM trucks and diesel engines!
Good looking could be descriptive of the Jennies SP supplied for the Kaiser Steel ore trains between Fontana and Eagle Mountain....the outside ribbing and angularity of the car sides worked for me.....
The def.. is on page 176 of an annual book that I bought here in the Sierra Nevada Foothills for less than $7.00 on a Rite-Aid Magazine shelf.
BaltACD Bucyrus There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock. Never heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. Never thought of them as 'handsome', ugly with a purpose comes redily to mind.
Bucyrus There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock.
There have been jimmies and Jennies. But whichever, I think we can all agree that the ore car is the most handsome piece of railroad rolling stock.
Never heard of jimmies, except on a ice cream sundae. Through my career ore cars have always been jennies, though my carrier has never owned any. Never thought of them as 'handsome', ugly with a purpose comes redily to mind.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I gather that “Jimmy” does refer to a four-wheel ore car, and “Jenny” refers to eight-wheel ore cars. However, it also appears that the eight-wheel ore cars are sometimes called “Jimmies.” Likewise, the Jimmies might have been alternatively called Jennies, but the Jimmies disappeared with the advent of the Jennies, so there were no Jimmies to refer to as jennies.
Jimmies continued to be used far beyond the discontinuance of the other four-wheel cars.
Jimmies often ran in relatively long trains. According to John White’s The American Railroad Freight Car, one source mentions a train of 225 jimmies in 1891. In 1879, a train of jimmies 1.5 miles long was run. This train consisted of 593 jimmies.
Another name for flat cars was Platform Car.
zugmann Maybe the term isn't as common as I thought. Learning something new means we aren't dead!
Maybe the term isn't as common as I thought. Learning something new means we aren't dead!
I suspect that it's a "local" thing, if you will. Those who have interest or other contact with steelmaking from mining to steel mill in the midwest have probably heard the term. Others not so much.
The info on the spinning "gin" (which might carry over to the cotton "gin") is telling, however, indicating that a perhaps archaic term or bastardization morphed into the "jenny".
John WR zugmannNever heard of an ore jenny? Not until I encountered the term on this forum. I've learned something new here.
zugmannNever heard of an ore jenny?
Not until I encountered the term on this forum. I've learned something new here.
No way....
John WR I've never heard of the word "Jenny" used in a railroad context. However, Samuel Slater memorized the design of a "spinning jenny" and came to the US with it. He opened a spinning mill in Pawtucket, Rhode Island using the new technology. The term actually means "spinning engine." Originally it was 8 spinning wheels which used hooks to give roving (cotton fibres) a twist that would hold them together and create 8 cotton threads.
I've never heard of the word "Jenny" used in a railroad context.
However, Samuel Slater memorized the design of a "spinning jenny" and came to the US with it. He opened a spinning mill in Pawtucket, Rhode Island using the new technology. The term actually means "spinning engine." Originally it was 8 spinning wheels which used hooks to give roving (cotton fibres) a twist that would hold them together and create 8 cotton threads.
Never heard of an ore jenny?
So now we're searching for the ore jenny origin?
Heh.
BucyrusWhat about a Jenny?
John WR I've always seen the word "Jimmie" refer to a small 4 wheeled gondola used to haul coal during the early days of railroading.
I've always seen the word "Jimmie" refer to a small 4 wheeled gondola used to haul coal during the early days of railroading.
What about a Jenny?
A quick search of the 'Net yielded no information regarding the source of the terms "jennies" or "jimmies," but it did reveal that fact that while jennies in the Iron Range area were bottom dump hoppers, on the Pennsy, they were gondolas, which the Conrail Cyclopedia refers to as "Jimmies."
The mud thickens...
I would opine that these are terms for which the origins are lost to antiquity. I would suggest, however, that said source may have little or nothing to do with gender, being instead a corruption of some other term.
My reference to railroad terminoloy dictionary says Jimmy is a four-wheel ore car, but it seems like have seen eight-wheel ore cars referred to as Jimmies as well as Jennies.
In any case, why call an ore car a Jimmy or a Jenny? Do ore cars have gender?
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