Looks like stormwater drains to me, incuding the corrugated plastic hose. Only question is what the hoses are connected to.
- Erik
Pondering the Mysterious with Updated Visuals
Part V (of I-V)
The yellow posts have loop rings, as if mental rope was going to connect each yellow post.
Lastly, a southward overview:
While we don’t know what the official word is on the strange buried items is, at least we have a halfway good overview of the situation on the Perris Valley Line by the Box Springs Mountains.
This will conclude the series.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part IV (of I-V)
A lid was very nearby.
It might be that the pipes are used to drain water that might build up by the grade crossing, though K.P. is not sure if that sound logical or not.
Continued in Part V
Part III (of I-V)
The mast signals at Poarch Rd. still have not received number plates.
From the north side looking south: The number of yellow poles are inordinately numerous here, obviously with an eye to protecting the mast signals.
We now move down to the two-lane Mt. Vernon Ave. grade crossing. It was more revealing.
A turquoise item seemed to have been run over by construction workers, and a pipe hole was present, with the pipe bending underground.
Continued in Part IV
Part II (of I-V)
A search of other grade crossing with such items was pursued. At the Poarch Rd. grade crossing near the top of the Box Springs grade, NO such type of items was spotted. HOWEVER, the closed grade crossing was oddly now open again!
Plastic covered red closed signs.
The north side had a similar treatment, but less covered.
Continued in Part III
Part I (of I-V)
The previously posted photo from Friday, July 10, 2015 showed by River Crest Drive in eastern Riverside, big black vertical ‘things’ trackside coming up from the ground by yellow posts.
On Saturday, July 18, 2015, K.P. returned, and found the black ‘things’ seemed to have vanished.
What the forum was not shown in the teaser post was that some type of burial items in their places was photographed.
Continued in Part II
A Reply and …
mvs (7-19):
About Orange and signals thereat … On February 22, 2015, I actually was in Orange. The east track (of two) had a red over green.
An inbound (to Los Angeles) Amtrak soon came by, and took the curved route to Anaheim and Los Angeles.
That red over green signal apparently displays red over green if a train is routed to Anaheim and Los Angeles, OR to utilize the crossover. It is high green if the train is routed to Riverside. That straight route has a siding within that interlocking, and because any train routed in that side likely would be limited to 30 M.P.H., a red over yellow should suffice.
Burbank Junction is basically of the same layout, at least in principal. So, a right running train headed to Oxnard should get a red over green, the same as at Orange in the top photo above.
It is unknown if you’ve been to Mojave (CA) lately on the east slope of Tehachapi Pass, but I was there this past Friday, and UP recently revamped the signals thereat, converting them from targets to color lights. Main 1 (that ends) uses a red over type signal, so there doesn’t seem to be a way for a train to distinguish from the signal display which route it will go on, the BNSF or UP. A photo of that odd arrangement will be posted within three or four days in the Tehachapi two-tracking thread. You may fine the future post photos thought-provoking.
For Those Curious about Those Strange Black Things
Watch for the posting on all this within one or two days. Personally, I don’t know what I photographed, but things were even stranger. Maybe you will be able to come up with something AFTER seeing all the photos …
Best,
K.P.
The black pipes are of a type and size commonly used for landscape drains. They may also be a very large size of what's known in the communications industry as "interduct" or "innerduct" which is used to protect cables - usually fiber obtic - in environments where direct contact with the environment isn't desirable. It's similar to the split conduit found on under-hood wiring in your car.
Having said all that I can't come up with a therory for why they're there...
K.P.:
Thanks for making another stop at River Crest Drive. So then, they were conduits of some sort?
Could these have anything to do with Positive Train Control? Considering the upcoming PTC deadline and the construction period of the PVL, might they be related?
--John
K. P. HarrierUpdate as of Friday, July 10, 2015 Another northward view, with the BNSF trusses in the background.
Another northward view, with the BNSF trusses in the background.
K.P.,
Thank you again for these great pictures. Progress is definitely being made.
From your above photo, I have a comment/question for the forum -- here, there is obviously one "main" route and one "diverging" route. However, Metrolink has Burbank Junction and the junction in Orange, where there doesn't seem to be a "main" route or a "diverging" route. Interesting that Metrolink didn't take that approach here.
A Special Memo to John Simpkins-Camp and All
Welcome to the Twilight Zone!
Those black vertical items trackside have caused quite a stir here at the forum.
After taking care of an important scheduled dispatch earlier this morning, a return to the River Crest Drive grade crossing in eastern Riverside (CA) was made, BUT those black items were no longer visible!
However, they ARE there, right in front of us … for this is the Twilight Zone!
Seriously, somewhere in the above view a pipe is buried in the ballast with a somewhat clear-like lid on it. Several other grade crossings were checked, and the same arrangement is at them too. Close-ups were taken of the glass-like lids, and the tubing under them.
The day before, Friday, K.P. went to Bakersfield and Tehachapi to photograph events for the thread on the Tehachapi two-tracking, followed up by today’s travels. Exhausting, to say the least! Then, two forest fires in the Cajon Pass area wrecked-havoc with the power, and electricity was out for hours! Otherwise, this post would have been posted much earlier. But, K.P. will try to put something together in the next few days for the forum’s evaluation on this odd development.
K. P. Harrier My gut is that those yellow and black vertical items are an effort to thwart vehicles from getting on the track(s). The black items may even be interlocked with the signal and Positive Train Control systems, though I am on shaky ground with that theory.
I had thought the answer was much simpler than this -- that the two 'black objects' actually just concrete-filled bollards intended to keep traffic from getting down the 'shoulders' of track adjacent to the crossing, and the 'yellow objects' are pipe stanchions; there will be chains or similar material stretching between those rings to prevent people from walking between them.
The problem with the bollards is that nearly anyone making the mistake of turning onto the railroad at the crossing would either stop short of contacting the bollards, or turn into the active volume of track to avoid them. So it might make sense to build them to contain magnetic anomaly detectors or whatever, that would work with the signal system to tell if something magnetic with lower mass than a train were present far enough off the crossing to signify a wrong turn. Then their position makes better sense -- they will detect a vehicle on the track between them, but will not 'go off' if even a heavy vehicle is crossing normally.
Your points about cab cars are well taken, however, in the Chatsworth collision (the one that led to the PTC legislation) the Metrolink train was in pull mode.
My thanks to you and your gut for the quick response on those black PVC pipes at River Crest Drive. I, too, think that they would be for protection from wayward motorists with the very accidents in mind that you mention.
Your thought that they might be tied into the PTC is very interesting. That would certainly make for a safer system-- my thought was "how are PVC pipes gonna' stop a car?". But your idea is a good one-- to tie them into the signalling system. If it can be done with a slide fence, then it could be done as you suggest. Maybe making them a bright color would help at night.
I agree with you 100% about push operation. I have never felt it safe-- on the West Coast or the East. Even the new Rotem cars do not have the mass/weight to protect the passengers in all grade-crossing accidents. What is going to happen when one of those trians hit a dump-truck full of gravel? Scary!
I easily see the "economy" of push-pull operation; but how many fatalites will it take to end the questionable practice?
John Simpkins-Camp (7-16):
May I suggest that we hold off a bit in trying to figure out those vertical yellow and black items at the River Crest Drive grade crossing. Such items are at other grade crossings as well. The suggestion to hold off is based on my assessment that the present situation is incomplete, hence, inconsistencies abound.
As I recall, John, you are on the East Coast, and you may not be as up on the situation here about what has transpired in the last decade. Metrolink has had four or five absolutely disastrous, high profile grade crossing collisions, where the Metrolink passenger cars have been ripped apart and many were fatally injured. The big news items with numerous fatalities ALL involved the commuter trains in push mode, which I personally feel is an indictment against that operating method. The last incident earlier this year involved a new Rotem cabcar, and it stood up very well even though it landed turned around and on its side. Unfortunately, the engineer died a few days after that incident from his injuries. (The fatally injured engineer was not at the controls, but a student engineer was, but that was not a factor in the incident).
My gut is that those yellow and black vertical items are an effort to thwart vehicles from getting on the track(s). The black items may even be interlocked with the signal and Positive Train Control systems, though I am on shaky ground with that theory.
Maybe I can find someone from the construction project onsite someday willing to talk. If I ever find out anything, I will share the info with the forum.
Your shots of River Crest Drive show a very complete looking grade crossing. Yet, on one side of that crossing, they show the two black PVC pipes uniformly spaced from the rail and at the same height.
They look as though the work with the yellow poles to prevent pedestrians and vehicles from getting onto the ROW. I have never seen this protection (if that's what it is) elsewhere-- not even the other side of the street. It would seem that the black pipes wouldn't be for conduit, as the crossing looks finished and thier placing looking very deliberate.
Did you have any thoughts? Thanks!
Update as of Friday, July 10, 2015
Important Line Improvements
South Perris to Highgrove, CA
Part “H” (of A-H)
A southward (outbound) view on the industrial tracks: Note the proliferation of derails, and the sole ‘entrance signal.’
Fred Perris, who surveyed the route for this line in the 1880’s that once ran from San Diego to Barstow via Elsinore, would marvel at what is taking place now, or maybe turnover in his grave, if he knew what was going on now on his old line!
Part “G” (of A-H)
The sun was getting low now (from the right) as seen in the outbound (southward) view from Citrus Street in northern Riverside.
Above, note the switches are new (with spring frogs unlike in BNSF days), and the line is now heavily ballasted. Note the newer, been there for a number of months now, microwave tower on the upper left.
Looking northward, the track arrangement has been rearranged, so that the ‘San Jac’ freight route is the turnout route.
Above, in the far background are those three BNSF truss bridges with the closer but still in the background signal bridge.
The new CP box, and the missing signal now erected around the curve.
Just above, note the ballast walling this side around that curve.
Continued in Part H
Part “F” (of A-H)
Old track:
Equipment way below the high up transmitters of the Box Springs Mountains:
Jointed rail has been replaced by continuous welded rail (CWR) and new, high ballast. A water truck waters the right-of-way. Many pieces of equipment were going to and from that background area, on what appears to be a new track-following dirt road.
In a strange development on this mainly upgraded to concrete ties line, the new ties mid-view and in the background seem to be new wooden ones!
Beyond here westbound (northward) there are two mast signals down the Box Springs grade. Both masts were checked, and strangely they still have not received number plates yet. Will they be absolutes, or are they just pending number plates as intermediates?
Continued in Part G
Part “E” (of A-H)
The River Crest Drive grade crossing:
Above, yellow poles are by the grade crossing.
Continued in Part F
Part “D” (of A-H)
Just a bit north, by Box Springs Rd. and River Crest Drive, an outbound view of where we were just at, by the off ramp and onramp of the I-215 Freeway at Eucalyptus Ave. and that absolute signal.
The River Crest Drive grade crossing: Note all the ballast in the area.
The spur (with a yellow track machine on it) and that what is believed to be an ‘entrance signal.’
We now go over to the grade crossing itself.
Continued in Part E
Part “C” (of A-H)
Up north in eastern Riverside, an outbound (southward) view of the new tracks arrangement. Photo taken from the Eucalyptus Ave. overpass.
A northward view: The old track is gone, replaced with the new.
The new rails and ballast amongst new cut grading.
Continued in Part D
Part “B” (of A-H)
Near the first grade crossing, a Loram track machine was on scene.
In the first curve inbound …
… the obvious path for pedestrians is now marked at the 7th Street grade crossing, along with ‘WAIT HERE.’
Continued in Part C
Part “A” (of A-H)
This report will generally be on an east (south) to west (north) basis, and starts by the South Perris stop. A box oddly up on a manmade hill, previously thought to be a CP box, is now obviously related to communications, as an antenna tower has been erected adjacent that brownish box.
Above, an obvious CP box is now up on the slight hill.
Another angle: The digital lens was set for 18mm.
As seen above, the area at the time had much overcasting cloud cover.
Continued in Part B
An Update Series
On Friday, July 10, 2015 K.P. was involved in one of his infamous half a day dispatches deep within Riverside County that afforded opportunities to see and photograph a number of new things here and there on the Perris Valley Line, such as the rearrangement of the BNSF southeast junction switch north of Citrus Street in the Highgrove area.
A series is now being worked up, and should be post-ready in a day or two. Preliminary composition is projected to be from South Perris (where a new, shorter microwave tower has been erected) to the Highgrove area.
Update as of Sunday, June 21, 2015
The PVL Construction Continues
Part IV (of I-IV)
By Cactus Ave.
Moreno Valley-Riverside, CA
South of Alessandro Blvd. (which is south of Eucalyptus Ave.) is the PVL Moreno Valley / March Field stop construction. K.P. went farther south to Cactus Ave., and took a few northward-like photos.
In the last photo just above, note the foreground signal (for trains coming at the camera, heading to Perris) and background signal (for trains moving away from the camera, to Riverside and Los Angeles).
The area was now left to check out thing on the Sunset Route, which is covered in another thread. But, you’ve had a glimpse of what is currently happening on the Perris Valley Line.
This will end the series.
Part III (of I-IV)
By Eucalyptus Ave.
Just south of Eucalyptus Ave. is the control point (CP) box.
Above, you are not hallucinating, but that short wall behind the CP box is slanted!
If tradition holds true here, this CP should be named CP EUCALYPUS, for Eucalyptus Ave.
The bridge over the now SCRRA (Metrolink) owned tracks is a super strange situation, one that also would suggest one is hallucinating!
From maps, east of the I-215 Freeway the road is Eucalyptus Ave., but west of it it is called Eastridge Ave. But, maps show a triangular area off the freeway (the track actually) and south of the bridge is actually in Moreno Valley, hence, the stenciled lettering on the bridge is Eucalyptus Ave. K.P. almost needs a tranquilizer on that one!
Union Pacific, as followers of the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread knows, has switch parts in boxes that are brought to an installation scene. Apparently, SCRRA is following UP’s logistical approach on switch installations.
K.P. somehow wonders if Metrolink didn’t recruit someone from UP …
The track needs a little aligning … Notice the passenger track has concrete ties, and the freight turnout route has wooden ties.
Part II (of I-IV)
From the Eucalyptus Ave. overpass, a southward view with track equipment working, on a Sunday no less! And, by non-railroad contractors!
Above, previously, the right track was the mainline of the branch, and the left track was the siding, with a LEFT handed switch. The roles have been reversed, with the left track the mainline now and a RIGHT handed switch for the non-Metrolink freight route.
The switch (likely 30 M.P.H. turnout route) has a spring frog like Union Pacific uses throughout their system.
The line southwardly curves and parallels the I-215 Freeway for probably a half a mile.
Part I (of I-IV)
By Marlborough Ave.
Riverside, CA
As seen below, the future station by Marlborough Ave. is coming along just fine, and track machines were parked on the mainline.
Just above, note the manual switch stand on the lower left. Some type of cabling were coming out of tubing by the switch.
As with an interlocking switch, signals are on each side of the switch, for the mainline. But, no signal has popped up for the branching off curved industrial track, which has been baffling.
No evidence of a signal until now … in a very logical place.
Above, left of the purple derail sign, a burial base has been put in, most likely for a signal of some sort.
So, a manual switch (top photo) combined with a manual derail has an interlocking signal (most likely) too. K.P. has never seen that before. The future signal may (“may”) be like on of Union Pacific’s ‘entrance signals,’ but matters need to develop more until one can say for sure.
A poster on another site noted that track upgrading was done last weekend on the east leg of the Highgrove wye. I used Google Street View to see the 'before' picture at the Villa Street crossing and discovered this ancient looking warning bell and dwarf crossbuck (but no lights or gates).
https://goo.gl/maps/AYjz7
If it hasn't been replaced already it is surely on borrowed time. Someone should check to see if Fred Perris inspected it. Anyone see this kind of device elsewhere?
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.