The Questionable Grade Crossing
Perris, CA
Part "B" (A-B)
That curved transition roadway between Case Rd. and Ellis Ave.:
In light of all the above photos until now (two Parts, A-B), the forum may or may not come to the same conclusions as K.P. did.
Inbound view:
A last look: The flashers are blockied by a large, light-based ‘Do Not Turn’ sign at certain angles
The present arrangement may or may not have been the best that could have been done.
Replies …
MikeF90 and garyla (12-11):
A century ago railroad employment was prolific and everywhere in America, and the railroads because of such had much, much clout. Today, hardly anyone works for a railroad. Thus, railroads are not on people’s minds, and they could care less about them, hence, railroads have little clout nowadays! So, it is not surprising that letters to the editorial page treat railroads as insignificant. If (“if”) those negative to railroads people were to get in a time machine to a hundred years ago, they would find railroads super influential, and feeding much of the population. And, because of that, possibly they would become candidates for public hangings (sort of, anyway) because of their narrow, unpopular, radical views. Oh, how times have changed!
ccltrains (12-13):
I may be on one of my all day dispatches later in the week, and if so, I might have some time to check on a few places on the old Redlands Loop where what you described may be at. Hopefully, what I find will be something positive to report for you. If you saw it on TV news, it HAS to be somewhere …
Best to all,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Part "A" (of A-B)
An unusual grade crossing is at Case Road and Ellis Ave. in Perris, on the final outbound approach to the South Perris station stop. It is NOT the typical 90 decree grade crossing, but an angled intersection with a separate transition connector over the PVL track
Above, the center to upper left road is Ellis Ave. Case Rd. is on the photo’s upper right.
Admittedly, the grade crossing looked better than when previously first negotiating it in early evening of a couple of weeks ago.
A westward view on Ellis Ave.:
Small, instructive signs and TOO MANY things for a motorist to check do not seem to be a good idea.
A confused and overwhelmed motorist could get killed if he makes the wrong driving choices doesn’t bode well for the grade crossing. I guess this contributor is a hard core railfan, and when he first negotiated the transitioning roadway from one street to the other was overwhelmed! Can’t you just see it now … two autos collide and stop on the track, just as a Metrolink inbound train departs the South Perris stop for Los Angeles, and because of the initial slow speed of the commuter train, it stops short of the accident on the tracks. It takes an hour for the police to arrive and right up their accident report and for the tow trucks to arrive too and clean up the mess. All the while passengers on the train, who traveled less than a mile, are fuming!
Continued in Part B
KP- I am going from memory which might be a little foggy. The line definately was cut and there was not a bumper post that would indicate a siding end. I think there was a street a few feet past the line cut. The only other info I can come up with was that it was in the area where the TV crews were filming aspects of the tragedy. We were watching Fox News. Perhaps they have the films in their archive.
Thanks for your help.
CCLTRAINS
MikeF90 Despite idiotic comments on the article about train interference with 'wilderness', that part of Highgrove is industrial parks that replaced orange groves.
Despite idiotic comments on the article about train interference with 'wilderness', that part of Highgrove is industrial parks that replaced orange groves.
Hey, you weren't kidding about the "idiotic comments"! A couple of those were really, really sad.
As I type this the PVL line is being 'dedicated' with the usual speakers and a short train ride. Perhaps K.P. got lucky and could attend. As reported in pe.com officials are now saying operation will start in 'early 2016'. Oh, well.
Turns out there is another kind of possible railroad collision - train vs burro. A small herd of wild burros has been rounded up by animal control hopefully to prevent future tragedies, see: http://www.pe.com/articles/burros-788936-animal-animals.html
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
ccltrains (12-7):
Your inquiry is an interesting one, though a bit off topic, even though I bring in things from time to time on the Redlands Loop and San Bernardino for comparison.
What you saw on TV, did the track have a bumper post, or was the mainline (if a branch can be called a mainline) severed? With more details I might be able to come up with an answer, at least half an answer, for you.
Best,
While watching the news of the terrible terrorist killings in San Berardino one news clip showed a rail line that ended near a road. Does anyone know where this cut line is?
K. P. Harrier And, then there is the leased BNSF units issue. They still haven’t show up on Metrolink trains, at least of the Metrolink trains I’ve seen.
There are several BNSF units at LAUS (Los Angeles Union Station), on track 15. They are stored there pending deployment onto Metrolink trains; I don't know when that will happen.
Update as of Tuesday, December 1, 2015
Things seem to be Moving Fast at South Perris
A Visit at Dusk
Part II (of I-II)
The CP MAPES switch was in and trackwork of an unclear arrangement was present. Does the switch have a frog?
Unlike Union Pacific’s CP box placards (as in Arizona on the Sunset Route) …
… the PVL only has the CP boxes’ location-names just stenciled on the boxes.
Odds and Ends
Metrolink’s website has had (“had”) information on it that mentioned a December 28, 2015 start-up date for the Perris Valley Line, but K.P. can no longer find such information. Perhaps the start-up date was moved further into the future, like January or February, or who knows when …
And, then there is the leased BNSF units issue. They still haven’t show up on Metrolink trains, at least of the Metrolink trains I’ve seen. A couple of visits to the San Bernardino Metrolink end of the day servicing area has been made where a lot of train sets were present, and none of them had BNSF units on either end.
K.P. was on assignment again in the Perris area on Saturday, December 5, 2015, but taking pictures was not practical. However, he crossed one of the grade crossings near the location of the above photos taken earlier in the week, and concluded whoever designed that grade crossing wasn’t adept at railroading. If someone isn’t killed there, surely the PVL will have a severe delay in its operations. K.P. has a possible (“possible”) dispatch to the Perris area the 3rd week of December, and will try to get a photo or two of that undesirable grade crossing, and you can access it for yourselves.
While on the southbound I-215 Freeway, between Cactus Ave. and Van Buren Blvd. (across from March Air Reserve Base), a test train (presumably) was northbound (westbound), but it was crawling as if it had to run at restricted speed because of a red intermediate signal.
For the recorded, at this point, it looks like K.P.’s dispatches to ‘deep within Riverside County’ will end in mid-January. Thereafter special trips to the PVL will be necessary. But, hopefully, soon the PVL will be up and running …
This will conclude the brief series.
Part I (of I-II)
On this visit much but not all of the South Perris station parking lot was paved, and the cement platform was now in.
Never before has K.P. seen so much grading equipment huddled together at the South Perris site.
Continued in Part II
New Operations Center
It is somewhat known that Metrolink is having a new dispatcher(s) and operating center built in Pomona (CA). The below new structure on the east side of Garey Ave. just north of the ex-Santa Fe Railway tracks (Super Chief route) is believed to be the place.
It is a rather attractive building, a light grayish neutral color with a stunning orange colored vertical part. A decorative rod iron fence puts an element of security to this close to opening vital building.
The Perris Valley Line undoubtedly will be dispatched from the building, which was photographed Friday, November 27, 2015.
Five Views at the Now Activated New CP NUEVO
The following photos were taken Thursday, November 19, 2015 at CP NUEVO just north of Nuevo Road, about a mile north of downtown Perris. The photos were taken north to south.
The signals presently seldom light, but are active.
Metrolink uses full signal heads, with positions (“positions”) for green, yellow, and red, regardless of use. In the last photo above, the lower head, while having three lamp positions, only the lower position is active, for red over red, red over flashing red, on of course, off.
This will end the single post.
Ref: Apartments...Track Triangle
Yeah, I remember that being a wye there, but I've been going out to the museum so long (since about 1971), I can't remember when the rails came up on that leg. Anybody know?
Another Visit to Perris (CA)
Thursday, November 19, 2915
Perris was gone through both Tuesday and Thursday the third week of November, 2015. Tuesday’s findings in the Van Buren Blvd. area of the Perris Valley Line have already been posted about. On the Thursday visit ground-views of the area by CP NUEVO north of Nuevo Ave., north of downtown was focused on. Views of that now active CP (by the CP itself) will be posted about in two to three days.
This single post focuses on the I-215 Freeway in Perris, which freeway straddles the Perris Valley Line for maybe 10 to 12 miles north of downtown Perris. In Perris itself the freeway and tracks take separate routes to the southeast side Perris. The I-215 Freeway in Perris has had construction taking place, a widening project that necessitated new roadway overpasses. It has been a nightmare trying to drive through Perris on the freeway. Now, however, the widening project is winding down, and it is a pleasure to drive I-215 again.
To make the freeway a pleasure to drive at this particular time is ironic, when the Perris Valley Line commuter trains are about to start. But the very poorly designed relatively NEW 60 Freeway and I-215 Freeway interchange to the north -- where massive and long traffic jams are chronic, even at non-rush hours -- people have an incentive to ride Metrolink from and to Perris!
It was extremely difficult for K.P. to shoot the above photo. Not only is there nearly a quarter mile hike through a closed public park, but there is mildly sloping ramp-like dirt on each side of a dirt maintenance road, and that elevated dirt road blocks the view of the freeway (and Metrolink track) from the park.
This old geezer has difficulty climbing such slopes in light of his paralysis. Over twenty years ago he was confined to a wheelchair for a few years, but gets about quite well now … except for trying to negotiate slopes. At least he got the desired photos.
Anyway, in two to three days some ground views of the new Metrolink CP NUEVO will be posted about. At CP NUENO the graffiti artists have already attacked the CP box, even before the line opens to the public …
In the Vicinity of Van Buren Blvd.
On the East Side of Riverside, CA
Part “B” (of A-B)
Looking inbound:
Above, note the block signal on the lower right. Also, the PVL (signaled right track) swings out a bit in the background, apparently for a separate bridge over a dry creek.
That block signal north of Van Buren Blvd. now is number plated 751. So, it is about 10 miles behind the camera past Perris to the South Perris end of the line stop, which you will recall was just past the M.P. 85 marker.
Above, that cleared land belongs to the March Air Reserve Base, previously March Air Force Base. Hanger are visible.
Word is that test and crew training trains operate on the line on weekends.
This will conclude the series.
Part “A” (of A-B)
On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 just less than two hours of free time allowed the new Van Buren Blvd. overpass area to be checked out. The overpass goes over the Perris Valley Line (PVL) and I-215 Freeway.
A telephoto looking southish (outbound, eastbound), with I-215 on the left, and Intermodal cars in temporary storage (right) to be used at BNSF’s Intermodal facility in San Bernardino.
Above, apparently the short term storage is really short term this time, as the BNSF power is still on site and laying over too.
The new southbound I-215 onramp (left) and the new PVL track along the BNSF branch (right). Note the ‘trespassing’ tumbleweed on the PVL track!
The wide new Van Buren Blvd. overpass replaces a two-lane old overpass structure.
That narrow road on the left is a pubic road, allowing this forum contributor to visit the area next to the BNSF power. Two of the units were turned off. The far unit was running, but crewless.
Electroliner 1935 (11-4): CP NUEVO
It is believed the following photos (some highly blown up) will satisfactorily answer your questions.
First, an overview from the Nuevo Road overpass, a contrast beefed-up north-ish telephoto from a 300mm Nikkor lens:
Another view was super blown up, showing a dual control motor for the derail.
In comparing the above view with the first photo, the switch points are moved by its own dual control motor.
Lastly, a super blown-up view is shown of a derail sign and its surroundings. The sign is this side of the signal, which means it is within the CP interlocking.
Also in the last heavily blown-up view is a sign that says “END CTC.” So the switch and derail are within CTC limits, but freight-type northward movements utilizing the switch likely will receive a red over flashing red to go into the dark territory. Undoubtedly outbound freights on that dark track, on the other hand, have an approach circuit to light the signal to get on the Main.
You, Electroliner 1935, probably know all this, but what you needed was simply a close-up view of the switch and derail motors, which you now have. Aren’t telephoto lenses and computer programs that blowup views wonderful?
Take care,
K. P. HarrierWe now move over to the Nuevo Street overpass, and see the new CP NUEVO interlocking that was recently put in service.
I am curious about the two switches main to siding and derail. Are they both manual and are they connected to the signal (PTC) system. Looks like there are electrical boxes beside them, but not power operators. Thanks.
Some Finishing Touches
Part VI (of I-VI)
As K.P. was walking to his vehicle, and ambulance in Code-3 mode rushed by.
Just before that a small fire engine left the fire station in the vicinity, and went straight across that intersection (left to right on the cross street). The fire engine driver seemed to not even look for cross-traffic! The stop sign had been taken down (officially), and if the auto driver hadn’t seen what was happening and slowed, a collision would have resulted!
We now move over to the Nuevo Street overpass, and see the new CP NUEVO interlocking that was recently put in service.
The ‘freight’ track (left) has a derail within the interlocking.
Something new to the ‘Sac Jac’ freight line (above, left background track) will be relatively high speed commuter trains on the adjacent commuter track (right). A very true story … Many years ago in Colton (some miles away on Fred Perris’ same original route), the UP local was switching cars on the ‘East Pass.’ Something went wrong, and several cars derailed and jackknifed, fowling AT&SF Main 2. A westbound UP was coming on that Main 2, and had already passed the interlocking signal at Colton Crossing. The alert switching crew knew the westbound was coming, and immediate radioed that approaching UP westbound, whose engineer immediately put his train in emergency. That UP 3751 (an SD40-2 at the time) came around the curve in emergency and stopped just short of the derailed cars! Disaster was averted!
Since the Perris Valley Line will have high speed commuter trains on it, and in light of the above true story, will freight switching operations cease momentarily until a commuter train passes? Something to ponder …
Looking the other way, outbound, the right-of-way has much new fencing.
It was time to get back to K.P. dispatch assignment.
Incidentally, what K.P. had expected to be a 7-8 hour dispatch ended up being an 18-hour one! Wow! That provided an opportunity to take some unexpected photos for this post series and also the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” tread (which has already been posted) …
Etc., Etc., Etc.
Word is that the Positive Train Control (PTC) time limit for implementation was extended to December 31, 2018, allowing more time for the railroads to put in PTC. So, the Perris Valley Line can start operations (there won’t be a national railroad shutdown), and reportedly the PVL’s first day will be December 28, 2015.
This will end the series.
Part V (of I-VI)
The gates repeatedly came down, irritating the locals … and everyone else at rush-hour!
“Wait Here” stenciling was on the side walk. The very wide angle distorted view almost looked into the sun.
This signal milepost conversion was complete, with new number plates.
Above, the original California Southern alignment through here was to the right, by that graded flat area.
Another RTA bus leaves the terminal and passes over the San Jacinto Ave. grade crossings.
Continued in Part VI
Part IV (of I-VI)
Now at downtown Perris, by San Jacinto Ave., north of the Downtown Metrolink stop, the gates activate, and an inspection high-rail vehicle passes southwardly (outbound, eastbound).
Note that the far side crossing gates drop after the near side ones do to avoid cars getting trapped on the track.
Note, also, that in the bed of the above pickup truck are a couple of ‘No Trespassing’ signs.
That pickup truck as it got to each grade crossing further outbound, the San Jacinto Ave. crossing gates would activate, even though that pickup truck was long past here.
Whatever that pickup truck was doing to repeatedly lower the gates, it did NOT activate the train wayside signals, and they remained off.
Continued in Part V
Part III (of I-VI)
At the “G” Street grade crossing, workers were turning stoplight heads toward traffic and setting all lights to flashing red.
Fencing is prominent at grade crossings.
Interlocked traffic signals and railroad gates were being worked on.
Continued in Part IV
Part II (of I-VI)
Another speed limit sign:
The speed limit is also on the rails across from the sign.
The roadway and track is clearly separated now. From the recent rains, mild gullies formed on the new sloping grading. On times of extended heavy rains (it rained for practically a month in February 1969 and the freight railroads had some big service disruptions), Metrolink might (“might”) have their hands full trying to maintain an open route.
Continued in Part III
Part I (of I-VI)
While the railroad line is having finishing touches applied, the South Perris stop has much work yet ahead. The humungous parking lot is still unpaved.
Above, on the photo’s lower right, it looks like the ground has preliminary grading. To the northwest of here, as will be seen in Part II, a slight chasm-like type grading separates the roadway and the track.
Passenger and freight speeds just before the South Perris stop.
An update on the line from pe.com was published today:
http://www.pe.com/articles/perris-785212-new-line.html
Tentative start of service is December 28.
The Last New Milepost Sign
On Thursday, October 29, 2015 K.P. was able to check out the Perris area, and he made it a point to document the last milepost eastward (outbound) to the South Perris stop. That M.P. 85 is just east of the second to last new concrete bridge, with the mileposts starting in Los Angeles.
A visitor to the area can readily see how the line is now being refined, with important but small things here and there being added or activated as finishing touches.
K.P. spent a bit of free time between the end of the line and Nuevo Street in Perris, and will post other photos within a week.
Update as of Tuesday, October 20, 2015
At the Citrus Ave. Grade Crossing
Riverside, CA
The trackside sign says “E. L. CITRUS,” which K.P. interprets as East Light of CP CITRUS.
Is that how everybody else perceives it?
The old Santa Fe ‘San Jac’ route (the turnout route) has a power derail on it (background).
The signal in the industrial siding has a sign by it that says, “BEGIN CTC.”
Above, the switch (to the mainline) involving the signal (right) seems to be a manual one, so likely the signal works similar to a Union Pacific “Entrance Signal.” The derail is manual also (the “D” sign).
Maybe it is only because this post contributor is a ‘railfan,’ but as simple as things are, the fencing seems to make one want to follow instructions, as when a crossing gate activates because a Metrolink train is approaching.
The CP connection to the BNSF Transcon is somewhat mysterious, but that will be covered in the “Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates” thread in a day or so.
Now that the Perris Valley Line’s signals work, K.P. visited the Citrus St. grade crossing in Riverside.
Because some sort of track equipment was on the line, the approach lit signals were lit.
Looking the other way, there was a double-red at CP CITRUS.
A heavily blown up small section of the above view shows the CP is in fact CP CITRUS.
A Quick Perris Review … and Signals
At dusk, north on the I-215 Freeway, NOT in Perris anymore, K.P. thought he would make a quick check on the Mt. Vernon Ave. grade crossing in Riverside.
So, there we have it! The signals are working, approach lit only, and with NO trains around they were off.
There was a mysterious delay in number plate attachments at signal by Mt. Vernon Ave. and the next signal up the hill, you will recall. The delay likely was caused by the PVL people deciding to use a different milepost system, NOT from Riverside, but from Los Angeles.
K.P. hopes to get out to the PVL sometime in the next two or three weeks and photograph other now activated signals. After photographing the Mt. Vernon Ave. signal, as above, he went over the Iowa Ave. Bridge in northern Riverside, the bridge over the BNSF Transcon. The BNSF / PVL west eastbound interlocking signal thereat was lit double red. It is unknown if a westbound freight train had just gone by, hence, it was still in the circuit, or if the new signal is always lit. K.P. hopes to check that out too soon.
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