ChuckCobleigh (2-22):
For forty years I’ve driven over the San Jacinto Branch on what is now I-215 on the east side of Perris, but never managed to follow the rail line itself, except in the last several months. So, I’m not sure what the history is of the bridge in question.
All the mapping aerials I checked show a view the same as the photos previously posted. What I did find, however, was the Google “Earth” mode you mentioned was, because of the sun angle, kind of illusionish, and not definitive.
Maybe someone at the forum was fortunate enough to have passed the bridge many years ago and could shed some light on the matter.
Take care,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
K. P. Harrier Looking back at the San Jacinto River Bridge, the track currently looks awful and rickety.
Looking back at the San Jacinto River Bridge, the track currently looks awful and rickety.
K.P>, would you surmise that the bents in the foreground are newly installed? The wood looks old, but looking at the Google Earth view of the bridge I see no evidence of bents to either side of the bridge as of a year ago.
A Couple of Onsite Follow-Ups
Perris, CA
Part D (of A-D)
A cross view of the area with snowcapped mountains in the background.
The greenery looks attractive now, but is not normally that color most of the year.
If the Perris Valley Line comes to fruition, the transformation of it will be something to behold … and update follow.
Part C (of A-D)
Next stop, the end of the line: The South Perris Station.
According to the EIR, the station is just slightly east of the San Jacinto River, the wooden bridge over it shown below, with the station land somewhere on the background right.
Just a few hundred feet to the east is another, but shorter, bridge. The station stop should be in that back greenery area.
Just past the bridging on the right is the slanted “T” intersection of Case Rd. (parallel to the track) and Murrieta Rd. (unseen); the bridge on the left is the same one as just above.
Continued in Part D
Part B (of A-D)
Back at the reserved boarding / alighting museum future track platform, the situation is a weird contradictory one. In is unknown if a piece of passenger carriage could enter without sideswiping the makeshift protective fence.
The visible cement between the yellow strips above is vertical, though sometimes it looks horizontal by mental illusion.
The bus stop area is WEST (right) of the track, but the Metrolink stop area will be EAST of the track (left), according to Environmental Impact Report diagrams (left on photo below).
Hopefully, the material herein will be sufficient to give the forum an idea of the PVL’s Perris stop situation.
Continued in Part C
Part A (of A-D)
In the recent past, it was pointed out in this thread by erikem and MikeF90 (both 2-2) about a connection between the Perris Valley Line and the Orange Empire Railway Museum (OERM), Mike even linking an aerial of a cement platform opening for a future OERM track.
On Wednesday, February 13, 2013, K.P. had opportunity to pass that area, and two specific areas in Perris were focused on.
First, the OERM reserved platform area in downtown Perris.
A northward view: The platform is part of a complex that hosts Riverside Transit Agency (RTA) transit buses. Bus stalls are slanted (see photo bottom).
A southward view: The OERM opening (right of center) in relation to transit bus access (lower right).
Continued in Part B
Replies:
Avianwatcher (2-1)
Regarding your February 1, 2013 reply …
Avianwatcher The photos shown of the trolleys were at the ORANGE EMPIRE RAILWAY MUSEUM. oerm.org Various types of power is in operation every weekend and once a month live steam. The plan is to extend the rails to the old Perris station.
The photos shown of the trolleys were at the ORANGE EMPIRE RAILWAY MUSEUM. oerm.org Various types of power is in operation every weekend and once a month live steam. The plan is to extend the rails to the old Perris station.
Thanks for catching that. It is NOT the Orange Empire Trolley Museum, but RAILWAY Museum as you pointed out. A correction has been made on the errant post.
Several weeks ago when first working up a series rough draft I caught that error, but was dealing with a few other related topics at the time and thought I had corrected everything, but I guess one draft error got by. When posting the February 1 post I knew I should have given the draft one final proof reading before posting, but I was almost on remote control at the time …
erikem (2-2):
After your post, MikeF90 posted a great aerial link that shows concrete sidewalks on each side of a trackless strip, the strip presumably for an OERM track.
I am out that way at least once a month, so hopefully I will be able to document that area in photos for the forum.
mvs (2-2):
Thanks so much for the links. They gave a good picture of what is going on controversy-wise.
As far as that lawsuit, while I am not an attorney, it seems out of the court’s jurisdiction, at least in my opinion. The rail line through the area in question is an existing line, and BNSF can run trains at its discretion. One point that was seen was that new, replacement track laying would all be WITHIN the existing right-of-way, so it is unclear what merit anyone would have in their objections. At this point in time, the massive earthmoving confuses me, though.
MikeF90 (2-2):
It is difficult to check out the physical plant on the line, but towards Perris I’ve noticed a bunch of well-cars for Intermodal service that has been parked for some time on a long siding. Long sidings were unheard of on the San Jac in times past.
North of Alessandro Blvd. in the Moreno Valley area, the siding there was passed last Wednesday, and it had some Intermodal cars in it too! ALSO on scene were three big SIX-axle GE units, the south one I believe was BNSF 7504. Never saw that kind of big power on the line before!
A Memo for All …
At the Riverside County Transportation Commission’s (RCTC’s) website, links are provide for the Perris Valley Line Environmental Impact Report. I downloaded two, but only one resulted, so it may be too big for one download and two self-combined in my computer. Diagrams are shown where the stations will be and their layouts. Interesting viewing!
A link is below to the RCTC website downloading page:
EIR Downloading
Take care all,
K. P. HarrierBut, where will the Metrolink downtown station stop actually be located at?
The new platform and adjacent parking are visible just west of the existing tracks, from San Jacinto south to 4th Street (property goes to 6th Street!). Trackage will be rebuilt and relocated closer to the platform, and per their website OERM has a dedicated track 'pocket' for their special event trains - very cool!. Looks like a parallel track will be built to the pocket with room for a Metrolink connection south of 4th Street - don't know what other plans the city has for that plot of land.
BTW the depot was sold by OERM to the City and leased back; it is mostly occupied by the Perris Historical Society's collection.
Another PV line upgrade I noticed while map surfing - there are now two concrete tie supported sidings starting just opposite the March Field Air Museum. Anyone know who / what they are for, at least before the main track presumably is upgraded.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
K.P., thank you for sharing that awesome pictorial with us.
Some legal updates on the Perris Valley Line from earlier this week:
http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/perris/perris-headlines-index/20130129-perris-judge-hears-suit-over-planned-metrolink-line.ece
http://blog.pe.com/environment/2013/01/30/metrolink-suit-judge-serious-about-ceqa/
A judge is now hearing the lawsuit over the environmental impact report for the Perris Valley Line.
I hope the judge rules in favor of Metrolink and RCTC. The trains won't have to move so slowly through Box Canyon with Class 4 mainline track.
A 1960's vintage Perris 7.5' topo shows two tracks on each side of the station (total of four tracks), so historically there would be room - though Perris now has grown "just a wee bit" since then. A Metrolink station would require a fair amount of parking, so I'm not sure where the station would go.
FWIW, my first time at OERM was in 1976 and I've been a member since 1989.
- Erik
Thanks for catching that. It is NOT the Orange Empire Trolley Museum, but Railway Museum. A correction has been made on the errant post.
Several weeks ago when first working up a rough draft I caught that error, but was dealing with a few other related topics at the time and thought I had corrected everything, but I guess one draft error got by me. When posting the February 1 post I knew I should have given the draft one final proof reading before posting, but I was almost on remote control at the time …
It looks like there is room for two-tracks to be routed by the old depot, one for OERM trains, the other for Metrolink.
But, where will the Metrolink downtown station stop actually be located at?
If somehow there is a passenger transfer arrangement between the two rail outfits, my gut tells me transferring passengers would have to walk a couple of blocks south to a completely separate OERM stop.
As far as I recall, there is a track connection between OERM and the Perris station, though the last few blocks are on what is now Metrolink trackage. It does look like there is room for a dedicated OERM track to the station, which would also allow the trolley wire to be extended to the station - the electrics are a lot cheaper to run than the diesels or VC #2.
How It Was In December-January 2012-2013
Part III, Section “I” (of A-I)
Green markings and a dug up roadbed were present near the Mapes Rd. grade crossing, near I-215.
What an old grade crossing control unit and battery box!
The left flasher lights must have replaced a knocked down one previously, because it has large flasher lights, whereas the right unit had small lights from years and years ago.
As seen above, this grade crossing presently does not even have crossing gates … at least not yet.
-----------
This will conclude the “How It Was in December-January 2012-2013” series.
Part III, Section “H” (of A-I)
Exactly where a Metrolink stop (the end of the commuter line) will be built is unknown, but looking several differing ways there are problems in this kind of rural area.
The land strip is narrow.
Farmland is present.
Because of the nearby freeway and roadways, the land is rather confined.
LINK: Aerial of Mapes Rd. and I-215 Area
Continued in Section I
Part III, Section “G” (of A-I)
Three southeastward views: The overpass is the U.S. 395 / I-215 Freeway.
Continued in Section H
Part III, Section “F” (of A-I)
A heavy telephoto looking back at Perris, from near the I-215 Freeway as seen in Section G.
A northwestward wide angle view.
Continued in Section G
Part III, Section “E” (of A-I)
Looking southeast:
Continued in Section F
Part III, Section “D” (of A-I)
Back at the Seventh St. grade crossing again, looking north: Watch your step!
At the “D” Street grade crossing, looking northwest:
LINK: Where there are Now Apartments ... Once a Track Triangle
Continued in Section E
Part III, Section “C” (of A-I)
The museum has signals, trolley cars, and some spectacular power!
A great place to visit!
Continued in Section D
Part III, Section “B” (of A-I)
The line to San Jacinto curves southeastward.
When this whole line is rebuilt, it would seem a more swooping curve arrangement more in line with fast commuter service will result.
Going the other way, south-southwestward, is the original California Southern route that once went to San Diego.
As seen in the last two photos above, catenary is strung. The Orange Empire Railway Museum (OERM) is in the background. Old trolley equipment is on site, and on some weekends and special events rides are given.
Continued in Section C
Part III, Section “A” (of A-I)
On the south side of that jog, at Seventh St., looking north:
(The inconsistency in street signs, 4th (numeral) vs. Seventh (spelled) is the community’s doing, not K.P.’s!)
Another northward view, a telephoto:
The old line once from San Diego, looking north:
Continued in Section B
Part II, Section “I” (of A-I)
A public transit bus heads west on 4th Street.
Two views looking south at strangely jogging track
The San Jacinto Branch continues on the upper left. The track on the upper right is the original Cajon Pass to San Diego California Southern (CS) route.
-------------
Continued in Part III to be posted on Friday, February 1, 2013 before 9 A.M. Pacific Standard Time.
Part II, Section “H” (of A-I)
From the key street in the town of Perris, 4th Street, looking north, with the old AT&SF depot on the right: Note the small white thing behind the fence on the far left.
Just north of the depot is a west side transit mall, with white buses in it. Adding commuter trains to the mall should work perfectly. Metrolink trains may (“may”) stop there instead of the depot.
A northward telephoto:
The heritage of the old depot is still evident.
Part II, Section “G” (of A-I)
The above cross street does not go through.
A southward view:
A very heavy southward telephoto with heavy photo doctoring to bring out the details because of the low light: Note the rollercoaster aspect of the present rail line.
The line all along this area, according to the Environmental Impact Report, will have a fast Metrolink line built totally anew, parallel to and away from the present track which is said to remain. The old and new tracks will probably junction together somewhere in the above view. Thus, switching the industries in this stretch can take place unhindered as commuter trains race by.
Part II, Section “F” (of A-I)
The line straddles I-215 for a number of miles, with many railroad customers served. Freeway overpasses are not plentiful, and there are little or no grade crossings. The Van Buren overpass, which K.P. had hoped to take some key photos from, is having construction taking place, and thwarted the photo effort.
It apparently is not like the old days when a whole crew rode either the power or caboose. These days, a crewmember rides in a van and is able to quickly throw switches, couple or uncouple rail cars.
Darkness had loomed twice before, and was threatening again! A couple northward views from Orange Ave. (north of Nuevo Rd.) on the north side of Perris:
Part II, Section “E” (of A-I)
From Alessandro Blvd. looking north along the abandoned right-of-way:
Looking south, with the old track’s pavement fill lines on the lower portion:
A view as the new track comes back to the old alignment.
Part II, Section “D” (of A-I)
As the rail line soon gets close to Alessandro Blvd., in a line relocation it curves to avoid recently built freeway on and off ramps.
Somewhere in the curving, supposedly a Metrolink station stop will be built, probably on the south side behind the camera.
The below link shows an aerial of that curving by Highway 395 / I-215:
LINK: Track Curving, Freeway, and the Old Highway Frontage Rd.
Before that freeway was built, the old AT&SF San Jac Line went straight
The old Alessandro Blvd. grade crossing base:
Part II, Section “C” (of A-I)
Looking the other way …
… the line “S” curves. Just above the phone box on the center pole, the line can be barely seen going the reverse way.
Part II, Section “B” (of A-I)
The line is now nearing the top on the canyon, and will go under the 60 / I-215 Freeway.
Where the line goes under the freeway, there is plenty of road and freeway construction, making taking photos impractical at this time. Sorry guys.
It levels off to a flatland .appearance.
In the above photo, note the speed sign on the right – 15 M.P.H. for the steep descent! Wonder what Metrolink commuter trains will be authorized at?
The above and below photos were shot from the River Crest Drive grade crossing, M.P. 7. The crossing gates are modern. K.P. can remember when all this was vacant land, and there was a wig-wag somewhere in this area.
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