MC are you back in our field yet?
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
mudchicken, I and some others here can have interesting and esoteric debates about the regulations that were violated, but since those clowns were not working for the railroad and were not authorized by the railroad to be there, I'm not aware of a specific FRA regulation that was violated.* If I'm right - and I well might not be* - that's an oversight or 'loophole' that needs to be corrected and closed so that enforcement is also with a rail-oriented federal agency (the FRA), pretty much the same as any unauthorized incursion onto an airport will get the trespasser into a world of hurt with the TSA. More than likely, though, there's also an OSHA violation of some kind here*, but I'd like to see the FRA empowered to prosecute it as well.
*Pending further detailed research when I have more time.
- Paul North.
PDN: The debate goes on over here as well. FRA has been a little wishy-washy over enforcement of the 214(c)/On-Track Safety rules. There has been some letter writing going on between California and the FRA in the past 6 months over some dime-store lawyering/ selective rule interpretation in central CA. We had our own correspondence over the perceived "loophole" and FRA seems to be hands-off until the issue becomes major. I do know that OSHA and FRA jointly went after the crane violator in NE after it became glaringly apparent that the crane owner broke multiple rules (state & federal) in an ethics-of-the-low-bid move common in Ag country ("Agri-Dummies" is the coined slang term here with the standard "I didn't know" line used profusely by the violators trying to exempt themselves from prosecution.). The jurisdictional issue between agencies needs to be much clearer, I agree. The trespass issue is clear. My understanding, from railroad police and railroad attorneys, is that because this was not in a dedicated public R/W crossing a railroad R/W...FRA takes the lead with OSHA in support.
I'll opine that there's no FRA violation involved. They were simply trespassing, although there could be issues with having delayed a train.
Thanks to some observant and knowledgable railfans, they're still alive to take their punishment.
It's interesting that few people realize just how hard it is to cross the tracks sans the usual crossing structure. I've related here before about the young soldier in a compact pickup (4x4) who tired of waiting for the train occupying the crossing (they were doubling out a train) and figured he'd just drive across the tracks a hundred yards or so from the crossing. He didn't make it. Fortunately, they were switching, so there was no high speeds involved.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Paul_D_North_Jr , but I'd like to see the FRA empowered to prosecute it as well. - Paul North.
, but I'd like to see the FRA empowered to prosecute it as well.
I'd rather not. They already are too involved in too much, IMO.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Dan, interesting story - thanks for sharing ! And to you and your friends for being 'heads-up' and alert and knowing what to do, and having the guts to do it. Hopefully there's a TM and some train crews who now have a higher opinion of at least some of the railfan community. Not likely that the train would have derailed or any of the crew would have been injured if the locomotive had struck the lift - but still possible; more likely is some damage to the front end of the unit and track, and much more lengthy and costly delays to crews and trains for inspections, repairs, reports, sorting out the mess, etc. So you guys undoubtedly had a big hand in preventing a mess of trouble for everyone. That said:
zugmann So were the contractors working on a railroad project? And will they be invited back?
So were the contractors working on a railroad project?
And will they be invited back?
CShaveRR Take pride in the fact that you and your friends probably prevented a disaster by being where you were, when you were, and reacting properly.I hope the TM shows a bit of appreciation to you "personnel".
Take pride in the fact that you and your friends probably prevented a disaster by being where you were, when you were, and reacting properly.I hope the TM shows a bit of appreciation to you "personnel".
mudchicken (SNIPPED, Bold & Underline - me) There continues to be far too many people that are too cheap, too short term in their planning and too unprepared to deal with railroad safety. These bozos deserve (1) to go out of business, (2) to go broke personally and (3) to have a criminal record after this. (the present system of arranging protection has some issues that need addressed [ another thread some day], but these clowns deserve the book thrown at them. They are lucky that they are alive and didn't maim or kill the train crew. For the railroaders on here: fodder for CN to produce "Funeral For A Friend 2" )
There continues to be far too many people that are too cheap, too short term in their planning and too unprepared to deal with railroad safety. These bozos deserve (1) to go out of business, (2) to go broke personally and (3) to have a criminal record after this.
(the present system of arranging protection has some issues that need addressed [ another thread some day], but these clowns deserve the book thrown at them. They are lucky that they are alive and didn't maim or kill the train crew. For the railroaders on here: fodder for CN to produce "Funeral For A Friend 2" )
Dan
Zugs: The trainmaster's reply and the lack of an assigned flagman tells me that the answer is "NO" in both cases. Lot's of people and that company are in for beaucoup fines. Canada and the US both go after the wreckless individuals along with the employer. (The "I didn't Know" cop-out won't fly here....being involved in the process following the Amtrak vs crane fiasco at Benkleman, NE, I know the incident won't be glossed over and forgotten.)
CNW 6000 Yesterday proved a bit interesting while trackside. ........... Yikes.
Yesterday proved a bit interesting while trackside.
...........
Yikes.
Deggesty Are the contractors being billed for the cost of the dog-catching crews?
Are the contractors being billed for the cost of the dog-catching crews?
The foreman of the contractor was attempting to thaw the snow with his language as some of the costs about to be incurred were explained to him. Can't repeat that language here.
Johnny
Two friends & I were near waiting for CN M340 & A416 at Neenah North (just south of the crossing at Winchester Rd/CTH II in Neenah, WI - map link: http://goo.gl/maps/9K1B6). ATCS & horns to the West told us to get out of the cars & set up for the first train, M340, which we did.
Sure enough, here comes CN 2317 south passing under US41. All three of us focused on the train, picking our shots. As it was about 10 cars north of the crossing, one of my friends shouted "Holy crap, they're gonna hit that!" and pointed south.
All three of us turned to see what "that" was and saw a 4x4 scissors platform lift dead-center on the main. All 4 of his wheels were in the gage. A boom/lift truck of the contractor was attempting to winch the lift free. The operator was simultaneously trying to get the lift moving (wasn't happening) and waving gently at the train with his other hand. Another guy (one of the contractors crew that was partly responsible for getting the lift stuck) started walking towards us & the train while gently waving both hands. All of this in the fog & moderately heavy snow.
Mind you, we observed this in about 2 seconds. At this point we realize that the contractors don't know how fast & close the train is and the train crew likely can't see the target in front of them yet (Remember the fog & snow? We barely saw them and we were closer than the train.) thus making a recipe for disaster.
One of us shouted "Start waving!" and all three of us started jumping up & down while running along the RoW towards the train, hoping they would see our gestures & stop. We could tell the crew saw us and then the lift because they began to slow. At this point the train was now less than 2000' from the lift. They then put the train in a full service brake application & activated the dynamics to help stop. Its a good thing the train was already at reduced speed or this would not have gone well.
Thankfully the train did stop, about 200'/250' from the lift. As the crew dialed the RTC to deliver their good news, we got in our cars & headed over to Chapman Ave (next one south on the map link above, the closest street to the lift) for a better look.
Shortly after we pulled up and got out for pictures (staying out of the way & on public property) a CN Trainmaster arrived to see just what the heck happened. One of the contractors started trying to explain the situation to the TM by saying something like "I had to get this thing over here, gotta do what I gotta do" to which the TM said "Nope, wrong answer!"
The contractors went back to removing the lift free of the mainline, but then they got the lift stuck on the Neenah Controlled Siding. They hooked the winch from the boom truck back on & finally got the lift off the rails. Neenah section crew then arrived to inspect all the affected rails. The RTC had radioed the crew and asked more questions, one being "What did you see?". The crew replied that they were first tipped off by seeing "personnel" (us) near the RoW waving frantically & began to slow from their already reduced speed. Then they got closer & saw why. If we weren't there...
Remember that we were waiting for two trains? Well A416 (push-pull) stopped about a mile back from M340's FRED. This is usually a fairly important train to keep moving as there is an engineer (only) on each engine on the north & south ends. If this crew dies on hours it costs two crews off the extra board & that has a ripple effect on other trains that now don't have rested crews. RTC has called them to ask how much time they have left & one of them says "Barely enough to get to Wrightstown" (just south of Green Bay on the Fox River Sub). RTC says "Just great! Plan on recrewing there." Two more rested crews broken up.
Around this time a train tones up for the RTC. Its A44780-06 or X447, bound for Green Bay via the Fox River Sub, just finished with his work at Neenah. He can't go anywhere until the Neenah Controlled Siding is finished being inspected. Next, M341 tones up from Shops wanting to go north but he's held at Wolf (South of Oshkosh) to wait for M340 to clear - again, after inspection. Lots of fun for everyone.
So because this idiot tried to take a shortcut & failed, 6 train crews' (M340, X447, A416, M341 plus the two crews to relieve A416) long days got longer & we almost saw a crash. The Neenah and CN PD were called & the contractors were cited & billed for their misadventures.
CShaveRR And in other news, while the Northeast is getting walloped with up to three feet of snow, Lombard's Dairy Queen opened for the 2013 season today. Free cones tomorrow noon...not particularly interested.
And in other news, while the Northeast is getting walloped with up to three feet of snow, Lombard's Dairy Queen opened for the 2013 season today. Free cones tomorrow noon...not particularly interested.
Heck, I just got running the snowblower in my driveway, and I'd take a free cone!
We're not getting huge amounts of snow, but it's drifting, which makes it pretty heavy.
We got another coating - 2" out there. Seems like the theme for this winter. Just enough to be annoying. Time to go play.
Just when you think there's nothing more that could possibly be said about the year-old control point here in Lombard...Union Pacific Control Point Y019 has been renamed, from "Lombard" to "Grace."Grace Street bisects the crossovers. This was probably done to distinguish the location from the station at Lombard, roughly a half mile west.
The new crossovers being built at Wheaton have carried the name Wheaton, even though they are closer to the College Avenue station. I expect that this control point might get a new name as well. If named for a street, Chase would be most logical. But there is already a Chase on UP's Chicago Division, near Milwaukee. Maybe they'll name it Billy, or Billy Graham, for the landmark building (Wheaton College's Billy Graham Center) not too far away from the tracks here.
Good luck on going back there in better weather!
This morning I was asked by the staff of the historical society what I thought about guided bicycle tours of the town. This has little to do with railroads on the face of things, but a tour that points out some of the interesting old structures in town could also show the current and former roadbeds of three railroad routes through town...it will be nice if the bridges on the Great Western Trail are finished come spring--that could be a vital link in the route.
Just now, I finally turned the page on my sightings pad from June 2008. One page--one line, in fact--has kept me occupied for the better part of two weeks! More missing bits of information found and linked together. It can get a little dull (and often frustrating, when vital bits of the puzzle are no longer available), but it's rewarding when you find the occasional car for which you can track all of its previous (in this case) four identities!
CShaveRR Pat and I both agree that Kathy owes you one!I have to admit that the things I look for when scouting an area for train-watching, as a researcher, would not necessarily be the things that a soon-to-be-award-winning photographer would want. But if you found the spot in Eola, that should have gotten you a few satisfactory angles.
Pat and I both agree that Kathy owes you one!I have to admit that the things I look for when scouting an area for train-watching, as a researcher, would not necessarily be the things that a soon-to-be-award-winning photographer would want. But if you found the spot in Eola, that should have gotten you a few satisfactory angles.
CShaveRR How did your weekend trip go, Jim?
How did your weekend trip go, Jim?
Yeah, that one was a newsmaker, all right. I got into the car to go to work that morning (from Glen Ellyn, where I lived at the time), and must have just missed the news. By the time I got to work, the hump was processing loads of ballast for Glen Ellyn--I was amazed to see that on the sheets already.The railroad got raked over the coals for that one...running the train too fast for track conditions.How did your weekend trip go, Jim?I just finished a very taxing evening. Hope the forms are filled out right.
CShaveRR Jim, were you referring to the Glen Ellyn wreck? I remember it well...
Jim, were you referring to the Glen Ellyn wreck? I remember it well...
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
I saw enough of those rascals (salad shooters) last week on the old B&OCT (Barr Sub)....Ididn't touch 'em!
Contest checked out and acted upon...one look at just the thumbnails convinced me.Tom, welcome back to the saddle. Good luck.Jim, were you referring to the Glen Ellyn wreck? I remember it well...One of my former co-workers also thinks that yesterday's wreck looked like stringlining, and points out that those cars, with their long drawbars and large distance from coupler to truck centers, would be good ones for that, even when they're loaded.
Looks like you found the ring.
Now if I was into conspiracy theories....
And on another note - I'm back in the saddle again.
CShaveRR It looks like it might have been the Salad Shooter that was involved in the wreck in Bellwood. It happened on the curve of the old IHB connection at Provo Junction, and almost looks like a stringlining incident. Bet they can't wait for that curve to be eased up on! (Not saying that that was the cause just yet, though--if that was the train, it would have been all loads...not a risky consist.) Spilled fuel from the cooling units prompted a hazmat response. Glad you liked the videos, Dan. It's action worth seeing in person sometime!
It looks like it might have been the Salad Shooter that was involved in the wreck in Bellwood. It happened on the curve of the old IHB connection at Provo Junction, and almost looks like a stringlining incident. Bet they can't wait for that curve to be eased up on! (Not saying that that was the cause just yet, though--if that was the train, it would have been all loads...not a risky consist.) Spilled fuel from the cooling units prompted a hazmat response.
Glad you liked the videos, Dan. It's action worth seeing in person sometime!
BTW, check out the Trackside (vol 203) photo contest this week--I understand that the reader submission is really good.....
Nice videos Carl. I was wondering what they were of.
For those among us who are my friends on Facebook, I posted a couple of videos of the goings-on on the UP main line...you know, the stuff I keep raving about.Guess there was a problem today...a freight derailment at Bellwood tied up the tracks for a while, then the westbound scoot, already delayed by the wreck, encountered mechanical problems. It struggled on for a few more stops, but was finally terminated at Villa Park. The next scoot, scheduled two hours behind that one, picked up the passengers. An eastbound scoot had to be annulled because of the lack of equipment (and, one assumes, crew).
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