Probably a moot point because it will never happen anyway, but in this day and age, just like with highway expansions, bypasses of small towns are, relatively speaking, not all that hard to do to loop around them. BNSF is in the process of constructing just such a bypass in Willmar, MN for oil and grain traffic coming out of North Dakota heading south. But again, probably a moot point, but interesting to think about "what if".
There is another option, run the line north east from end of track, go through LaCross, join up with the C.K.I.N.line up to NS, CF&E and CSX. All this track would go through farmland and use existing rail.
MidlandMike I would like to see rail re-installed on the Seaboard "S" line between Petersburg, VA and Norlina, NC. It would mainly benefit passenger rail, but I also heard that if it was rebuilt, CSX would be interested in renewed freight service along the I-85 corridor.
I would like to see rail re-installed on the Seaboard "S" line between Petersburg, VA and Norlina, NC. It would mainly benefit passenger rail, but I also heard that if it was rebuilt, CSX would be interested in renewed freight service along the I-85 corridor.
Is this by chance the route that also went through Belmont County, Ohio? when we went to Bethesda, Ohio to visit my grandparents when I was growing up, my dad, brother and I would take an occasional walk dow the tracks. I don't remeber that line having much traffic at all.
Fred is correct. Creating some new ROW on the east end and linking into the existing CKIN line would afford access to CSX, NS (ex-NKP), NS (ex-PRR) and GTW. This line would allow for a true bypass, especially if high-speed connections were installed on the east end and a double-track throughout.
That said, I would love to see the old Erie alive across northern Indiana. It enjoyed fantastically wide ROWs and would be a true high-speed route, although it did diligently avoid all major cities in Indiana and Ohio.
Fred's Lacrosse option could be the key. The Kanakee Belt could turn into a very valuable piece of railroad real estate. Any deal would have to be beneficial to Norfolk Southern as well as BNSF. If they worked out a Meridian Speedway-type of deal, maybe NS throws in the route to the partnership, and BNSF contributes the capital to upgrade the speed of the line, loop the line to the south of Streator to elimate the 14 degree curve, and add the 15,000 foot passing sidings every 10 miles or so. The advantage of this connection for NS is that it jumps right on to the former NKP to Fort Wayne, and from there they can run up the former Wabash to Detroit, up the NKP to Cleveland and Buffalo, as well as the former Pennsy south from Fort Wayne to Cincinnati. Also at Cleveland they switch back to the multi-track Pennsy to Pittsburgh, and if they want to get all the way to Philly and the New York Metro area they of course keep rolling. It would probably only make sense if they could cut a lot of time off of expedited intermodal schedules, but about 12-15 months ago CP cut a full day out of their schedules from Vancouver to Toronto. Financially it would have to make sense but if they want to continue to compete with the post-Panamax ships going to the Gulf and East Coasts, one way to do that is take a day out of transit times from LA to the Upper Midwest Mega Region. Very interesting indeed - I wonder how the price tag would compare to one of the CREATE contributions up in Chicago? The Meridian Speedway deal, if I recall correctly, included KCSR contributing the track and right of way and Norfolk Southern contributing something like $300 million. Distance-wise this would have to be shorter but it would also require land acquisition for new right of way as Fred mentioned, but it would be an interesting case study, for sure.
In the late 50's TRAINS magazine had an opinion article that stated NYC would double track the Kankakee and single track to Chicago. At the time, it would take a day & a half out of Streator to Elkhart. Probably add another day today. I remember the article, was a real NYC fan then and thought it sacreligous to take the Chicago line to single.
It has occurred to me for years that the old Colorado Midland was removed WAY ahead of its time. It was well-engineered and would have possibly been an amazing extension for the Rock Island's main across Kansas thru Limon and into Colorado Springs.
Ruppert Baird It has occurred to me for years that the old Colorado Midland was removed WAY ahead of its time. It was well-engineered and would have possibly been an amazing extension for the Rock Island's main across Kansas thru Limon and into Colorado Springs.
Johnny
While I am a CM fan, and the Midland was better engineered than lets say the parellel DSP&P line thru Trout Creek Pass, it was still a tough slog over Ute Pass and the Continental divide. The fact that the Rio Grande Tenn.Pass route could handle all the WWI traffic that CM couldn't, shows which one was better engineered. The RI eventually got trackage rights on UP to Denver to connect with Rio Grande's Moffat Tunnel route. But of course, I still would have loved to see the CM survive.
If the EVWR could add some connections at Woodlawn and Shattuck and obtain trackage rights from BNSF, they could gain a St. Louis connection by coming up the BNSF to Shattuc and then going into St. Louis over the recently moth-balled former B&O line between Shattuc and East St. Louis - assuming CSX would grant them traffic rights over this route. EVWR should be in a position to push the point on this because CSX mothballed the route on 7 Aug 2015 (not reported by Trains for whatever misguided reason) due to lack of traffic. They'd have to re-instate all of the crossing warnings, etc. but could probably skip re-instating the signal system and operate with train orders as they do on most of the rest of their system. It would probably still be pretty easy to get to the east side of Belleville from Okawville on the old L&N, but getting to Belleville to East St. Louis would likely be difficult to impossible due to the existence of MetroLink on the former L&N rihgt-of-way - unless the EVWR could engineer a short cross-country connection with either NS (possible because they've done this elswwhere) or CN (former IC) to gain trackage rights over their lines into East St. Louis. CN might be the better bet as their line isn't as heavily trafficked as the NS, but who knows??
bob811 Dare I add to this list, The Washington & Old Dominion right-of-way (now known as the W&OD Trail, under the auspices of the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority). This old ROW runs from Purcellville VA to Alexandria VA, through some of the most densely built suburban development AND the heaviest and intense traffic in the mid-Atlantic region. Oh that they could ever bring tracks back to that corridor! What a boon to the commuting. More's the pity.
Dare I add to this list, The Washington & Old Dominion right-of-way (now known as the W&OD Trail, under the auspices of the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority). This old ROW runs from Purcellville VA to Alexandria VA, through some of the most densely built suburban development AND the heaviest and intense traffic in the mid-Atlantic region. Oh that they could ever bring tracks back to that corridor! What a boon to the commuting. More's the pity.
kgbw49 Fred's Lacrosse option could be the key. The Kanakee Belt could turn into a very valuable piece of railroad real estate. Any deal would have to be beneficial to Norfolk Southern as well as BNSF. If they worked out a Meridian Speedway-type of deal, maybe NS throws in the route to the partnership, and BNSF contributes the capital to upgrade the speed of the line, loop the line to the south of Streator to elimate the 14 degree curve, and add the 15,000 foot passing sidings every 10 miles or so. The advantage of this connection for NS is that it jumps right on to the former NKP to Fort Wayne, and from there they can run up the former Wabash to Detroit, up the NKP to Cleveland and Buffalo, as well as the former Pennsy south from Fort Wayne to Cincinnati. Also at Cleveland they switch back to the multi-track Pennsy to Pittsburgh, and if they want to get all the way to Philly and the New York Metro area they of course keep rolling. It would probably only make sense if they could cut a lot of time off of expedited intermodal schedules, but about 12-15 months ago CP cut a full day out of their schedules from Vancouver to Toronto. Financially it would have to make sense but if they want to continue to compete with the post-Panamax ships going to the Gulf and East Coasts, one way to do that is take a day out of transit times from LA to the Upper Midwest Mega Region. Very interesting indeed - I wonder how the price tag would compare to one of the CREATE contributions up in Chicago? The Meridian Speedway deal, if I recall correctly, included KCSR contributing the track and right of way and Norfolk Southern contributing something like $300 million. Distance-wise this would have to be shorter but it would also require land acquisition for new right of way as Fred mentioned, but it would be an interesting case study, for sure.
There has been quite a lot of activity on the old Kankakee Belt Route lately.
Quite a bit of traffic...aside from NS traffic, many BNSF oil & manifest trains.
All my life in Kankakee, the NYC-PC-CR-now NS West Yards had been allowed to deteriorate, tracks removed, etc. This past autumn saw several additional new rails added to accommodate more trains waiting for crew changes and clearance through the city of K3 onto Schneider, IN where it heads north. As I write this, maintenance crews are trenching in wiring and installing equipment lockers and new signal mounts.
A couple of decades ago the bolted rail was all replaced on the mainline with heavy welded rail. Old bridges were rebuilt & the route is in first class condition.
Several years ago, traffic was much lighter...a few trains a day. However, I live in the country about 5 miles east of Kankakee and the K3 Belt Route passes north of me about 2 miles across open fields. I can hear the whistle blows at the grade crossings and there are several trains just at night.
It would be interesting to know what the future holds for the Kankakee Belt Route. It is, at least, being kept pretty busy with the present status quo...and is well tended to.
The SP used trackage rights on the UP to avoid the cost of rebuilding the CRIP line between KC and StL after promising to rebuild it when they sought ICC approval. Years later, UP sued SP for tracking rights payments that were supposedly just miscalculated - the amount SP owed would have easily paid for the rebuilding.
The line is now being abandoned by the Missouri Central, a wholly owned subsidiary of Ameren UE. Ameren officials told me personally that the only reason they bought the line in the first place was to get a competitive carrier into their Labadie power plant, a move that would pay off the MOC investment in 3-4 years in all likelihood. Unfortunately they would not allow the MOC to reopen the line to Gerald and then perhaps as far as Belle, cities that had excellent freight potential. Corporate politics, not economics and common sense seemed to prevail there.
The CRIP had potential for bridge traffic of up to 2 trains a day each way from identified potential shippers. A UPS contact was interested in one overnight train StL-KC and KC-StL because the Class 1s weren't interested and highway traffic was getting to be more of an issue each year. It might have also been a backup for UP during the Missouri River floods that periodically shut down part of their StL-KC route. Unfortunately, though it could be rebuilt, the removal of the track makes it much less likely and the economics would require an owner that understood railroads and public good.
If I were the US Czar of Rail Operations, the following lines would be nice to have in 2015 reality, purely for operational reasons (although I'd personally like to see the old PRR Zanesville branch rebuilt and elevated to mainline status!):
1/(with a bullet) the Seaboard Air Line main from Richmond VA to Raleigh, NC (what WERE they thinking???) - this would allow CSX to use their non-ACL network west of the fall line to handle the horrifically overwhemed A-Line;
2/ the Kankakee Belt (although I can understand why this one was let go at the time), particularly if could have been upgrade further west/north;
3/ the Rock Island Choctaw route from Tucumcari, NM to Memphis;
4/ The Milwaukee Road from Tacoma east to a connection with the ex-Northern Pacific main in the vicnity of Easton, WA
Future FUBAR concern - I worry about CSX downgrading their line from Cincinnati south to Corbin and Atlanta in favor of moving the traffic to a routing via Nashville so closely after shutting down the ex-Clinchfield route. It would not take much of change to make Nashville the black hole of CSX were this to take place.
CatFoodFlambe If I were the US Czar of Rail Operations, the following lines would be nice to have in 2015 reality, purely for operational reasons (although I'd personally like to see the old PRR Zanesville branch rebuilt and elevated to mainline status!): 1/(with a bullet) the Seaboard Air Line main from Richmond VA to Raleigh, NC (what WERE they thinking???) - this would allow CSX to use their non-ACL network west of the fall line to handle the horrifically overwhemed A-Line; 2/ the Kankakee Belt (although I can understand why this one was let go at the time), particularly if could have been upgrade further west/north; 3/ the Rock Island Choctaw route from Tucumcari, NM to Memphis; 4/ The Milwaukee Road from Tacoma east to a connection with the ex-Northern Pacific main in the vicnity of Easton, WA Future FUBAR concern - I worry about CSX downgrading their line from Cincinnati south to Corbin and Atlanta in favor of moving the traffic to a routing via Nashville so closely after shutting down the ex-Clinchfield route. It would not take much of change to make Nashville the black hole of CSX were this to take place.
I understand that a great-uncle of mine assisted in the surveying, but he may well have been no more than a carrier of the chain. In later years, he and the two other men who ran a certain sugar plantation in Louisiana did make a name for themselves when a mosaic disease was destroying the sugar cane growing in Louisiana--they introduced a new variety of cane that was resistant to the disease.
CatFoodFlambe4/ The Milwaukee Road from Tacoma east to a connection with the ex-Northern Pacific main in the vicnity of Easton, WA
To those that may not be familiar with this area, this is the former Snoqualmie Pass line. While it would have been nice to see it saved, really, with Iron Triangle, it or Stampede Pass would be redundant. It could bypass Seattle if the Monroe line also survived, but Stevens Pass could also fill that role.
Someone mentioned B&O and the C&A a while back. My understanding of that affair was that B&O purchased it cheaply in bankruptcy, thinking that further westward expansion would help compete with the larger eastern roads. The western roads didn't like this as it involved shorthauling themselves and didn't interchange much traffic with the C&A. As a result, it went bankrupt again and B&O divested it.
The Alton line to Kansas City was a low-density route for a long time. I'm curious to find out how much traffic it carries now that it is owned by KCS.
The line through Corbin to Atlanta will be CN's "competitive access" to the south as a condition of UP acquiring CSX in the final round of mergers. In order to increase competition, CN will be given access from Chicago and Detroit through Cincinnati to Atlanta, and trackage rights on the CSX former B&O-NYC mainline through Cleveland to the greater NYC and Boston areas.
That is the view from a very cracked and cloudy crystal ball.
cudjoebob bob811 Dare I add to this list, The Washington & Old Dominion right-of-way (now known as the W&OD Trail, under the auspices of the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority). This old ROW runs from Purcellville VA to Alexandria VA, through some of the most densely built suburban development AND the heaviest and intense traffic in the mid-Atlantic region. Oh that they could ever bring tracks back to that corridor! What a boon to the commuting. More's the pity. I had to burst out laughing at that suggestion! you would be drawn and quartered by the No.Va. NIMBYs within minutes of mentioning that out loud! and I remember the traffic snarls on Shirley Highway when the rare W&OD train would ramble across during morning rush hour!
I had to burst out laughing at that suggestion! you would be drawn and quartered by the No.Va. NIMBYs within minutes of mentioning that out loud! and I remember the traffic snarls on Shirley Highway when the rare W&OD train would ramble across during morning rush hour!
calzeph Is this by chance the route that also went through Belmont County, Ohio? when we went to Bethesda, Ohio to visit my grandparents when I was growing up, my dad, brother and I would take an occasional walk dow the tracks. I don't remeber that line having much traffic at all.
NorthWest CatFoodFlambe 4/ The Milwaukee Road from Tacoma east to a connection with the ex-Northern Pacific main in the vicnity of Easton, WA To those that may not be familiar with this area, this is the former Snoqualmie Pass line. While it would have been nice to see it saved, really, with Iron Triangle, it or Stampede Pass would be redundant. It could bypass Seattle if the Monroe line also survived, but Stevens Pass could also fill that role. ...
CatFoodFlambe 4/ The Milwaukee Road from Tacoma east to a connection with the ex-Northern Pacific main in the vicnity of Easton, WA
...
I also would like to have seen the Snoqualmie Pass line saved. It saved about 500' elevation vs. the Stampede Pass route. BN bought the MILW route apparently for the lower elevation. However, falling traffic levels caused them to rethink things, and they ripped up the line, and might have ripped up Stampede also, had not traffic levels picked up again.
I appreciate the new and knowledgeable contributors this thread has brought out. May they stick with us!
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