Good puzzle!
zugmann I posted one or two more a year or 2 ago... I'll have to dig around the board to see if I can find them - if they still exist.
I posted one or two more a year or 2 ago... I'll have to dig around the board to see if I can find them - if they still exist.
Searching, I see you had a thread called "Professor Zug's Switching School" in december 2011 (http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/200183.aspx), but the pictures must have been deleted, moved or renamed on photobucket .
zugmann I could probably create some more if there is interest. Actually that is the part I miss most about switching around in the yard: the planning. The actual work wasn't bad, but I always enjoyed when I could create a plan that worked like clockwork. And I had the bosses and yardmasters that allowed me the freedom to switch as I mostly wanted to, as long as the cars ended up in the right spots at the right time.
I could probably create some more if there is interest. Actually that is the part I miss most about switching around in the yard: the planning. The actual work wasn't bad, but I always enjoyed when I could create a plan that worked like clockwork. And I had the bosses and yardmasters that allowed me the freedom to switch as I mostly wanted to, as long as the cars ended up in the right spots at the right time.
I'd like to see some more, if you have the time to make any.
Smile, Stein
steinjr . Cool scenario with a good learning effect. Got any more? Smile, Stein
.
Cool scenario with a good learning effect. Got any more?
I posted one or two more a year or 2 ago... I'll have to dig around the board to see if I can find them - if they still exist. I could probably create some more if there is interest. Actually that is the part I miss most about switching around in the yard: the planning. The actual work wasn't bad, but I always enjoyed when I could create a plan that worked like clockwork. And I had the bosses and yardmasters that allowed me the freedom to switch as I mostly wanted to, as long as the cars ended up in the right spots at the right time.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Train B's conductor is the only one who needs to hit the ground at any time and that is to make the cut on his train at Tree after hind end clears Balt and head end goes into the clear at yard...
Five thousand feet is almost a mile and would take 20 minutes to a half hour to walk in one direction, so why waste time having conductors walking.
With B on the siding between Tree and Balt and head end in the clear on the yard lead (which the diagram inedicates is three miles in length) both other trains can move on...or just the priorityy train then get B out of the yard as fast as possilbe, then let the other go.
Not only do you not want to waste the time of walking, anytime you put a man on the ground you increase the chance of injury at least.
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zugmann You're making the conductor walk to the rear and back to the head end again. The other way (pulling the head end 1000' of train into the yard), means the conductor only has to walk 1000' total.
You're making the conductor walk to the rear and back to the head end again. The other way (pulling the head end 1000' of train into the yard), means the conductor only has to walk 1000' total.
Yep. He gets off the loco at the point where the cut is to be made, wait while engineer pulls past him until the rear is in the clear at CP Balt, make the cut, rides the end of the front cut down onto the yard lead, rides the end of the front backing up, and only has to walk the 1000' back to the front.
Ironically, I did consider that solution, but dropped it because I figured that it still would put a train (the front 1000 feet of train B) on the yard lead, and I (mistakenly) thought you would have to do a brake test after reconnecting - with the conductor walking the whole train. Cool scenario with a good learning effect. Got any more?
I missed the distance part...the joy of posting from my Android in the woods. I like puzzles like this, thanks to you for this example & the OP for the thread.
More!
Dan
CNW 6000 True...but this one has the least walking involved & might be quickest.
True...but this one has the least walking involved & might be quickest.
You're making the conductor walk to the rear and back to the head end again. The other way (pulling the head end 1000' of train into the yard), means the conductor only has to walk 1000' total. Like I said, no correct answer to this...
CNW 6000 Why mess with the yard?
Why mess with the yard?
'cause it's there.
Train A's conductor walks to his rear end to protect his shove completely back to the main behind C and clear of the CP. Train B pulls ahead to occupy as much space as is needed. While thats going on A's conductor walks back to the head end. Once B clears the main, C goes on its way. Then A, then B. Why mess with the yard?
Interesting puzzle. Makes me glad that I rarely have to do much switching, and then it's usually only a car or two.
Another way you could practice such moves would be via most any of the simulation programs. I know both MSTS and Trainz have a building mode that lets you create your own "layout." Determining precise distances is something I haven't worked out to my own satisfaction yet, but it's not hard to duplicate most plants.
You can then assemble trains of your choice whereever you want them on the plant itself, or perhaps in staging yards from which the desired trains could then be moved.
I don't know how to run the signals in Trainz like a CTC plant, but you can put in signals that will indicate clear routes when all the switches (and stars) align.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
steinjr jeaton (This assumes that there is no need for a brake test observed at the rear of Train B). What's the rule on when you need to do a new brake test? Smile, Stein
jeaton (This assumes that there is no need for a brake test observed at the rear of Train B).
(This assumes that there is no need for a brake test observed at the rear of Train B).
What's the rule on when you need to do a new brake test?
When the train - or part of it has been off air for more than 4 hours.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
henry6 1) B pulls train to clear Balt but is headed into the yard at Tree, , cuts train so that only what fills Balt to Tree reamins on sidng and takes head end and enters yard. C moves east thru Balt... B returns to Tree, retrieves his hind end and goes to Carl crossing over at Tree. When B clears Tree, A can go to main via Tree or Balt. and follow C. 2) All of B goes to yard at Tree, C goes to Balt,anc clears A, goes to Balt. After C clears Tree, B back out on main b locking siding at Balt.,then reseumes west to Carl...when B clears Balt, A follows C.. There are probably about a half dozen other combinations but I believe these two are the two quickest and clears the yard lead the quickest...#1 being the least obtrusive to the yard in both time and train length.
1) B pulls train to clear Balt but is headed into the yard at Tree, , cuts train so that only what fills Balt to Tree reamins on sidng and takes head end and enters yard. C moves east thru Balt... B returns to Tree, retrieves his hind end and goes to Carl crossing over at Tree. When B clears Tree, A can go to main via Tree or Balt. and follow C.
2) All of B goes to yard at Tree, C goes to Balt,anc clears A, goes to Balt. After C clears Tree, B back out on main b locking siding at Balt.,then reseumes west to Carl...when B clears Balt, A follows C..
There are probably about a half dozen other combinations but I believe these two are the two quickest and clears the yard lead the quickest...#1 being the least obtrusive to the yard in both time and train length.
1) won't work unless it is a really large interlocking. When the head end of B backs out of the yard to retrieve the rest of his train, his head end will still most likely be in the yard. He has to do the zig-zag move out on the main (alongside his cars), then across Tree to get on the siding. If the interlocking is really big, then you may be able to do it, but you will probably need dual-controlled switches so you can take them out of power mode.
2) is the obvious choice, but it means the conductor will have to protect the shove of train B, then walk 5000' to the head end. Personally, I'd rather make a cut and only walk 1000'.
zugmann Someone say switching puzzles? This one comes from a very sharp RRer, and I'll share it here: In this puzzle, we have a passing siding with an interlocking in the middle. This interlocking allows access to a stub-ended yard. As you can see, the siding (and main) hold 6000' between CP-Carl and CP-Tree. The siding and main can hold 4000' between CP-Tree and CP-Balt. All switches and signals are dispatcher controlled. This day, we ended up having to meet 3 trains at this siding. Train A's length was reported to be 5900'. Train B was reported to have a length of 3600'. Train C was reported as 5500'. You, as the dispatcher, held Train A at CP-Tree on the siding. Train B then arrived, and you put him on the siding to hold at CP-Tree, in order to clear the main for Train C, which was the last to arrive, and also had the greatest priority of the 3. As train B pulled into the siding, we find that his length as reported is wrong (lousy computer). He is actually 5000 feet. He will not fit in the siding, no matter how close he gets to the signal at CP-Tree. Uh-oh. Now nobody can pass anyone.
Someone say switching puzzles?
This one comes from a very sharp RRer, and I'll share it here:
In this puzzle, we have a passing siding with an interlocking in the middle. This interlocking allows access to a stub-ended yard. As you can see, the siding (and main) hold 6000' between CP-Carl and CP-Tree. The siding and main can hold 4000' between CP-Tree and CP-Balt. All switches and signals are dispatcher controlled.
This day, we ended up having to meet 3 trains at this siding. Train A's length was reported to be 5900'. Train B was reported to have a length of 3600'. Train C was reported as 5500'. You, as the dispatcher, held Train A at CP-Tree on the siding. Train B then arrived, and you put him on the siding to hold at CP-Tree, in order to clear the main for Train C, which was the last to arrive, and also had the greatest priority of the 3.
As train B pulled into the siding, we find that his length as reported is wrong (lousy computer). He is actually 5000 feet. He will not fit in the siding, no matter how close he gets to the signal at CP-Tree. Uh-oh. Now nobody can pass anyone.
jeaton Dispatch sets routing for Train B to yard. Conductor B drops off engine at CP Tree. Train B pulls through route to yard until rear of train clears CP Balt. (Approximately 1000 feet) Conductor B cuts train in the clear on the siding at CP tree, sets hand brakes on cut left on the siding, climbs on the last car of the head cut. Headend of Train B pulls onto yard lead to a point clear of the main. Trains A and C now have track available to proceed beyond the siding and depart. Train B now gets a route to back onto the main with conductor B protecting the shove. Once in the clear on the main and to the right of the switch at CP tree, Train B pulls forward to crossover to the siding. Once clear of the siding switch at CP Tree, the train backs down to make the joint with the rear of the train. Upon completing the joint and releasing handbrakes the conductor walks back up to the engine. (This assumes that there is no need for a brake test observed at the rear of Train B).
Dispatch sets routing for Train B to yard.
Conductor B drops off engine at CP Tree.
Train B pulls through route to yard until rear of train clears CP Balt. (Approximately 1000 feet)
Conductor B cuts train in the clear on the siding at CP tree, sets hand brakes on cut left on the siding, climbs on the last car of the head cut.
Headend of Train B pulls onto yard lead to a point clear of the main.
Trains A and C now have track available to proceed beyond the siding and depart.
Train B now gets a route to back onto the main with conductor B protecting the shove.
Once in the clear on the main and to the right of the switch at CP tree, Train B pulls forward to crossover to the siding.
Once clear of the siding switch at CP Tree, the train backs down to make the joint with the rear of the train.
Upon completing the joint and releasing handbrakes the conductor walks back up to the engine.
That's the solution I had in mind.
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Personally, I would just lift one of the trains off the track and put the cars back in their boxes, but I suppose you are not talking HO scale here, are you?
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
I picked a hell of a night to be drinking and try to figure that one out...
Adrianspeeder
USAF TSgt C-17 Aircraft Maintenance Flying Crew Chief & Flightline Avionics Craftsman
zugmann The other problem is that you are still delaying 2 trains by having them help each other. There's a way to avoid that.
The other problem is that you are still delaying 2 trains by having them help each other. There's a way to avoid that.
Hmmm, I suppose you could possibly put the conductor of train A on the ground, pull train A 4000 feet forward on the main between CP 3 and CP Balt, send the conductor on train A on a 1900 foot walk to the end of train A, back train A out on the main to the left of CP Carl, pull train B fully into the siding, have train C depart, then pull train A into the main between CP Carl and CP 3. Train B departs. Conductor train A will have a long (5900') walk forward again, but trains can depart from the yard while he does that.Stein
zugmann Remember - all the switches are controlled by the dispatcher. That's one way, but your yardmaster is going to be complaining about that train blocking his yard lead (that is a hint, BTW). But kudos for having the crews work together. No "correct" answer here, so anyone else want to give it a stab?
Remember - all the switches are controlled by the dispatcher.
That's one way, but your yardmaster is going to be complaining about that train blocking his yard lead (that is a hint, BTW). But kudos for having the crews work together.
No "correct" answer here, so anyone else want to give it a stab?
YM can complain all he wants - if this mess doesn't get resolved, he isn't going to be doing anything worthwhile anyway. He has to take one for the 'team'.
zugmann This day, we ended up having to meet 3 trains at this siding. Train A's length was reported to be 5900'. Train B was reported to have a length of 3600'. Train C was reported as 5500'. You, as the dispatcher, held Train A at CP-Tree on the siding. Train B then arrived, and you put him on the siding to hold at CP-Tree, in order to clear the main for Train C, which was the last to arrive, and also had the greatest priority of the 3. As train B pulled into the siding, we find that his length as reported is wrong (lousy computer). He is actually 5000 feet. He will not fit in the siding, no matter how close he gets to the signal at CP-Tree. Uh-oh. Now nobody can pass anyone. How do we get out of this mess with the least delay? Today's rule of the day is protecting all shove moves. So If we reverse someone, the conductor must walk back to protect the rear end, then walk back to the head end. Nobody else is around to help. We have to do it all with the 2 man crews on each train. And the engineer is pretty much stuck in the cab. The next passing siding is miles away. The yard down below is a stub, with no tracks available for any fancy run-around moves. And the yardmaster is not going to be happy if you block up his yard throat any longer than necessary. He has trains to run as well, and your mess is keeping his locals from getting out to the main. You have several bosses breathing down your neck asking how you are going to get out of this mess as quickly as possible. What do you do? It's 3am, so don't criticize the lousy diagram too much. Any questions, ask away. I'm sure someone will get this one pretty quick, so for all you railroaders, let the fanbase have a shot at it first. zug PS: the most obvious solution (and the one I thought of first when presented this problem) is not the best. It'll work, but you will owe the conductor a new pair of boots.
How do we get out of this mess with the least delay? Today's rule of the day is protecting all shove moves. So If we reverse someone, the conductor must walk back to protect the rear end, then walk back to the head end. Nobody else is around to help. We have to do it all with the 2 man crews on each train. And the engineer is pretty much stuck in the cab.
The next passing siding is miles away. The yard down below is a stub, with no tracks available for any fancy run-around moves. And the yardmaster is not going to be happy if you block up his yard throat any longer than necessary. He has trains to run as well, and your mess is keeping his locals from getting out to the main. You have several bosses breathing down your neck asking how you are going to get out of this mess as quickly as possible. What do you do?
It's 3am, so don't criticize the lousy diagram too much. Any questions, ask away. I'm sure someone will get this one pretty quick, so for all you railroaders, let the fanbase have a shot at it first.
zug
PS: the most obvious solution (and the one I thought of first when presented this problem) is not the best. It'll work, but you will owe the conductor a new pair of boots.
Wild guess - conductors on train C and train B line switches so train B can head towards yard. Conductor train B gets back in cab. Train B clears main. Conductor train C sets yard entrance switch so train C (highest priority) can depart through the path train B came in on. Train C departs.
Conductor train A line switches in front of train A can move straigh ahead later. Line yard entrance switch and next switch so train B can back out of yard onto lowermost track. Gets on rear of train B, train B backs up - stops at CP Balt. Conductor train A at rear of train B lines switch. Train B backs up further until clear of yard entrance switch. Conductor on train B gets off loco, line yard entrance for main, gets back on. Train B pulls forward until clear of switch at CP Balt. Stops. Conductor train A gets off the end of train B. Train B departs via CP Carl. Conductor train A lines switch at CP Balt for train A. Train A stops to pick up conductor at CP Balt and departs via CP Balt. How did you actually do it? Smile, Stein, curious
SFbrkmn This type of exercise doesn't even have to be done online. Just hand someone a track list or industry switch list and let the fun begin. Hopefully the industry list will have respots. Main objective is to do the work in the least amount of moves in least amount of time
This type of exercise doesn't even have to be done online. Just hand someone a track list or industry switch list and let the fun begin. Hopefully the industry list will have respots. Main objective is to do the work in the least amount of moves in least amount of time
Don't forget to set and release the hand brakes!
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