RE:
5 Hunter asks what he, the condr is doing, getting off after the train stops. If not a taunting question, does it mean he did not know the operating rules which derive their authority from him? A twit....rhymes with--
6 inter terminal transfers, between Toronto and Montreal? But seriousely, 15 mph is dangerous on jointed-track; 12 t0 22 mph on jointed track provides more rock-n-roll than those enshrined in that Cleveland museum gave us. Provide enough hp per ton to get a transfer drag to 25mph....sure.
7 All hump operations in Canada. That means, I guess, that Canadians aren't able to make a humpyard perform; some genetic difference between them and the rails('roaders) who work at North Platte, Clearing, Pig's Eye, Selkirk, Roseville,....?
Looks like they are thinking of moving down to the Shepard Intermodal Yard. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't think it will make all that much difference.
When is the last time you ever heard of a corporate, or home move for that matter, that didn't incur unexpected additional costs. I don't see this idea making all that much of an improvement to the OR.
If the current landlord of Gulf Canada Square has someone chomping at the bit to move into that space and are willing to pay CP a premium for quitting their lease, that might be a worthwhile incentive.
We are going to need to see a lot more than this to get the big changes to the OR they have been promising.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Ok the hammer is comming down for the new year and the plan will be announced the first week of December.
http://www.bnn.ca/News/2012/8/20/CPs-sweeping-plan-to-come-in-December.aspx
Other than that it has been quiet. The only change that affects me is the getting on and getting off moving equipement rule has been removed and replaced with a 4mph rule.
I suspect this is the calm before the storm.
cptrainman I would like to explore the KCS/CP merger idea a bit more. I have read what others have said about it and I think only one person touched on what I believe is the critical point. That is, if the STB would approve or not. Historically, CP was untouchable as the Canadian government used the CPR to block possible American expansion into Canada. That was a long time ago. Today the CPR is owned by an American. The CEO is American. Historical arguments don't hold ground anymore. CP is already American in my eyes. To me CP/KCS is a perfect marriage. It would be a powerhouse. Vancouver to Montreal to Texas and Mexico. No other class 1 would have that kind of reach. Even CN doesn't have direct access to Mexico. As a possible merger, money doesn't matter. If the two CEOs can agree and the shareholders can agree, and they will, they will find a way to make it happen financially. The critical point is the STB. After the last round of mergers, SP/UP, ATSF/BN, CN/IC and the breakup of Conrail, the STB said that is it. Anymore mergers would reduce competition and thus create all kinds of monopolistic problems for shippers. CP and KCS are the two smallest class 1s. I believe the merger of these two roads can be argued as an increase in competition. How? CN basically has a monopoly on North/South movements from Canada to Texas, Yes, other roads have North and South mains, but only CN reaches as far north. This is the critical selling point: A CP/KCS merger will create competition for the North/South traffic which is becoming more important than the traditional East/West flows. A properly designed submission to the STB using this angle could pass the sniff test. I think the payoff is worth the risk. Ok, this brings us back to my view of the railroad at the switch stand level. I don't know what is going on at such high levels. I don't know what CEOs are thinking about and I don't know the regulatory considerations for such merger. I might have some of my historical facts wrong, but that is ok. You guys know what I mean. I am happy we have a place like this where we can bounce our ideas off each other for validity. I hope that someone with the clout to make my vision come true is here reading our posts. Unfortunately, I might have the dream and the vision, but I don't have the skill to put together a merger plan to the STB. I have no idea what these government agencies require. Again thanks for letting me rant.
I would like to explore the KCS/CP merger idea a bit more. I have read what others have said about it and I think only one person touched on what I believe is the critical point. That is, if the STB would approve or not.
Historically, CP was untouchable as the Canadian government used the CPR to block possible American expansion into Canada. That was a long time ago. Today the CPR is owned by an American. The CEO is American. Historical arguments don't hold ground anymore. CP is already American in my eyes.
To me CP/KCS is a perfect marriage. It would be a powerhouse. Vancouver to Montreal to Texas and Mexico. No other class 1 would have that kind of reach. Even CN doesn't have direct access to Mexico.
As a possible merger, money doesn't matter. If the two CEOs can agree and the shareholders can agree, and they will, they will find a way to make it happen financially.
The critical point is the STB. After the last round of mergers, SP/UP, ATSF/BN, CN/IC and the breakup of Conrail, the STB said that is it. Anymore mergers would reduce competition and thus create all kinds of monopolistic problems for shippers.
CP and KCS are the two smallest class 1s. I believe the merger of these two roads can be argued as an increase in competition. How? CN basically has a monopoly on North/South movements from Canada to Texas, Yes, other roads have North and South mains, but only CN reaches as far north. This is the critical selling point: A CP/KCS merger will create competition for the North/South traffic which is becoming more important than the traditional East/West flows. A properly designed submission to the STB using this angle could pass the sniff test. I think the payoff is worth the risk.
Ok, this brings us back to my view of the railroad at the switch stand level. I don't know what is going on at such high levels. I don't know what CEOs are thinking about and I don't know the regulatory considerations for such merger.
I might have some of my historical facts wrong, but that is ok. You guys know what I mean.
I am happy we have a place like this where we can bounce our ideas off each other for validity. I hope that someone with the clout to make my vision come true is here reading our posts. Unfortunately, I might have the dream and the vision, but I don't have the skill to put together a merger plan to the STB. I have no idea what these government agencies require.
Again thanks for letting me rant.
Dan
UP had their problems with on and off congestion long before they bought SP - and those "problems" continued on for another dozen years to one degree or another until the recession "solved" their capacity, crew, power, and congestion "problem".
Dick Eisfeller
Balt.
Thanks for the discussion. I think we can both agree that hindsight is 20/20.
Around here when the YM is in touch with the dispatcher, things go rather smoothly. Some YMs have not figured this out yet. During briefings I will suggest to the YM that he calls the dispatcher so we can get updated train arrival times. Sometimes, if we need the main for some work, we can tell the dispatcher we will be using the main until "x" time. That way he/she can plan his movements. Sometimes the dispatcher will tell us don't block the main at "x" time because I have a crew short on time. We work together to keep the wheels turning.
There definitely needs to be better communication between YMs and dispatchers.
I respect dispatchers totally. I have to. I don't know how they do it sometimes. Like you mentioned, mechanical failure, crews out of time, are just two of the common problems they need to deal with. Not to mention the emergency calls from grade crossing accidents that must be very stressful. The dispatchers I deal with regularly are good people. I don't know what they look like, but I know them by voice and by name. When time permits, we even joke around a bit.
I respect what you do, and your part in the big picture is critical.
I've got a migrane.
CMStPnP Hunters appointment at CP Rail has really driven the stock price up.
Hunters appointment at CP Rail has really driven the stock price up.
The stock price went up in anticipation of his coming, he has to produce for it to rise further, that will take some time.
I was wondering if any railroader would pick up on that famous ds phrase...
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Remember to take the story you are hearing with a grain of salt, as talked about before, there are many times reasons that management makes a decision, that has little to no logic to the union employee, only because the union employee does not have the big picture.
Remember to take the story you are hearing with a grain of salt, as talked about before, there are many times reasons that management makes a decision, that has little to no logic to the union employee, only because the union employee does not have the big picture.
Spoken like a true dispatcher.
Sometimes, I think I don't want to see the "big picture." I'm afraid it would like something done by Picasso.
Jeff
Different opinions.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm Good managers, whether on railroads, factories, hospitals, high-tech corporations, retail operations,or government agencies have open, two-way communication with their employees that is marked by respect and an attitude that says the employees often know a lot that I can learn from and I may need to explain the "big picture" to them when that isn't immediately obvious.
Good managers, whether on railroads, factories, hospitals, high-tech corporations, retail operations,or government agencies have open, two-way communication with their employees that is marked by respect and an attitude that says the employees often know a lot that I can learn from and I may need to explain the "big picture" to them when that isn't immediately obvious.
Good managers get what is assigned to them done, at or under budget. How they get there is irrelevant, be it by having communication with their employees, or running their department with an iron fist. I have worked for both kinds, and both ways can work. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if your employees like you, as long as your bosses like you and your work.
Reading this I am reminded of the line from the book Fiasco:
"One rises to the level of ones incompetence"
On the serious side. One thing that has always struck me about transportation is this. By and large as long as you are able to provide the service, ie moving goods and materials from point a to b, it is relatively easy to make money doing so(ok sometimes not so easy). And if your not making money you go out of business.
Thx IGN
tatans Many of the replies to this forum are from C.P.R. and (ex) employees and management seems to be the crux of many problems, Years back I worked a summer job for 2 years with CP and always heard full-time employees refer to the company as the "SLEEPY R", I'm beginning to see the reason.
Many of the replies to this forum are from C.P.R. and (ex) employees and management seems to be the crux of many problems, Years back I worked a summer job for 2 years with CP and always heard full-time employees refer to the company as the "SLEEPY R", I'm beginning to see the reason.
Union employees, for the most part will lay blame on mangegment for all the railroad problems. Management will lay blame on the union for the majority of the railroads issues. It does not matter which railroad you are speaking about, the above seems true no matter what paint scheme is on the side of the locomotive. Remember to take the story you are hearing with a grain of salt, as talked about before, there are many times reasons that management makes a decision, that has little to no logic to the union employee, only because the union employee does not have the big picture.
DwightBranch tatans: Many of the replies to this forum are from C.P.R. and (ex) employees and management seems to be the crux of many problems, Years back I worked a summer job for 2 years with CP and always heard full-time employees refer to the company as the "SLEEPY R", I'm beginning to see the reason. Isn't that funny? We are used to hearing about how private firms will eliminate that sort of thing, inefficiencies, but what is being described reminds me of the old Soviet system.
tatans: Many of the replies to this forum are from C.P.R. and (ex) employees and management seems to be the crux of many problems, Years back I worked a summer job for 2 years with CP and always heard full-time employees refer to the company as the "SLEEPY R", I'm beginning to see the reason.
Isn't that funny? We are used to hearing about how private firms will eliminate that sort of thing, inefficiencies, but what is being described reminds me of the old Soviet system.
A great analogy fore sure, except the Canadian Government almost lived in fear of the C.P.R.- - - they were like an entity of their own, seeing that they owned half the country (and the mineral rights) and did what they pleased.
BaltACD Remember - there are virtually no absolutely correct answers and by the same turn there are virtually no absolutely incorrect answers. Every situation presents its answers in varying shades of gray. Sometimes the 'correct' answer is easy to discern, sometimes it is counter-intuitive. If all the decisions to be made in railroading were between right and wrong - a 10 year old could thrive in the business, however, the decisions to be made are never that clear. Sometimes the decision to be made is to find the least bad of multiple bad choices. These decisions occurr at all levels of railroad supervision, and they are second guessed by all those affected by the decision both above and below the level that the decision is made - it is a fact of human nature.
Remember - there are virtually no absolutely correct answers and by the same turn there are virtually no absolutely incorrect answers. Every situation presents its answers in varying shades of gray. Sometimes the 'correct' answer is easy to discern, sometimes it is counter-intuitive. If all the decisions to be made in railroading were between right and wrong - a 10 year old could thrive in the business, however, the decisions to be made are never that clear. Sometimes the decision to be made is to find the least bad of multiple bad choices. These decisions occurr at all levels of railroad supervision, and they are second guessed by all those affected by the decision both above and below the level that the decision is made - it is a fact of human nature.
I think both you and CPTrainman are closer in outlook than you might think. The duty of the manager is to work out the best compromise solution as frequently as possible. The good managers can be considered artists in rail operation. But you absolutely have to have a good basic understanding of how the entire railroad works at a practical level. One of CPR's problems has been the proliferation of managers who are rather more comfortable in an office making power point presentations to like minded individuals. Understanding the sometimes ugly realities of keeping a network fluid was never covered in their university courses, and some are too proud to admit and correct their ignorance. Not all; there are some really good people out there too, of course.
John
dakotafred To be fair to Balt, this is revised from my earlier post as of 8:30 p.m. CDT: Sounds like those "above your level" are always right. So, where do all these problems come from? And I'd like to know how a train dispatcher located hundreds of miles away is familiar with the kinds of local problems CPtrainman describes.
To be fair to Balt, this is revised from my earlier post as of 8:30 p.m. CDT:
Sounds like those "above your level" are always right. So, where do all these problems come from? And I'd like to know how a train dispatcher located hundreds of miles away is familiar with the kinds of local problems CPtrainman describes.
Railroads are living, breathing organisms. With anything that is alive, things happen, sometimes the things are planned for, sometimes the things are not planned for - irrespective of what happens you have to act and/or react and make and implement decisions based on the information that becomes available, when it becomes available. Rarely will you get ALL the information until after the decision has been made and implemented.
Division end terminal, under the control of another division states their division has a curfew and can't handle a train that has 3 hours to work, for 8 hours because of their own curfew, that they just told you about when they said they couldn't handle the train. What do you do? Head out train of 4 being run - all yarded on the same track by the other division, Train has 1 engine with a inoperative air compressor and a mother-slug combination that is 5 days overdue for their scheduled 92 day Q inspection - What do you do?
The issues keep 'walking' in over the Dispatchers wire, minute to minute, hour to hour, they also go the Yardmaster in minute to minute basis..
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I do not want to answer for BaltACD, but my current job is the Assistant Chief Dispatcher for a class one, and you would be surprised what local terminal issues we get involved with. Many times if I am involved, the trick train dispatcher siting in front of me has to get involved as well. It doesn't matter if the terminal is the one that is 10 miles from the operation center, or on the other side of the division, so distance does not play a factor. As for where are the problems coming from, in my experience, it comes from when people manage the numbers, instead of the railroad. It happens, and it is something that railroaders just have to come to terms with.
dakotafred Sounds like those "above your level" are always right. So, where do all these problems come from?
Sounds like those "above your level" are always right. So, where do all these problems come from?
They are not always right - but they are above my level. You deal with it and move on.
dakotafred BaltACD: cptrainman: I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient. If you have the better answers, bid in the next Yardmaster or Train Dispatcher bulletin that comes around and give your carrier the benefit of your expertise. I think this snottiness is totally uncalled for. And I suspect most of what CPtrainman has been telling us of would be invisible to a yardmaster and especially to a train dispatcher.
BaltACD: cptrainman: I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient. If you have the better answers, bid in the next Yardmaster or Train Dispatcher bulletin that comes around and give your carrier the benefit of your expertise.
cptrainman: I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient.
I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient.
If you have the better answers, bid in the next Yardmaster or Train Dispatcher bulletin that comes around and give your carrier the benefit of your expertise.
I think this snottiness is totally uncalled for. And I suspect most of what CPtrainman has been telling us of would be invisible to a yardmaster and especially to a train dispatcher.
If it is invisible to the Yardmaster - the Yardmaster needs to be fired for incompetence. In the yard these are the Yardmaster's crews, his responsibility for knowing who is doing what, where and when. If he doesn't know he has a crew on OT working and preventing a ST crew from working he is not doing his job.
Snottiness - everyone that is not the supervisor always believe they have all the answers when they haven't even seen a portion of the questions. I was guilty of this in the past for decisions up to my present level, and I am guilty of this at present for the decisions that are made above my level. All those who don't have to make the decisions for real, always believe they have the better idea. It is human nature.
BaltACD cptrainman: I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient. If you have the better answers, bid in the next Yardmaster or Train Dispatcher bulletin that comes around and give your carrier the benefit of your expertise.
Sorry I knocked your comment from the top CPtrainman, I really like your view.
BaltACD cptrainman: I work a yard assignment as an engineer. I am talking about one yard relieving another yard. Same thing happened yesterday. Good for my pocketbook but hardly efficient. With all due respect, the view behind the control stand of a locomotive and the view in being responsible for the overall operation of a terminal and all the crews that work in it are vastly different. Having watched what happens when train and enginemen that 'knew it all' when beind the engines control stand and got into the office and found out they didn't know the questions, let alone know the answers to those question. If you have the better answers, bid in the next Yardmaster or Train Dispatcher bulletin that comes around and give your carrier the benefit of your expertise.
With all due respect, the view behind the control stand of a locomotive and the view in being responsible for the overall operation of a terminal and all the crews that work in it are vastly different. Having watched what happens when train and enginemen that 'knew it all' when beind the engines control stand and got into the office and found out they didn't know the questions, let alone know the answers to those question.
I agree, but ... My view is from the switch stand level where as a manager has a higher level view. My comments about management are fair in that I always consider the fact I don't know everything. I know they get pressures from above that causes them to make decisions that to me are wrong. Customers, personel, company policy, equipment, etc. are all considerations I have no idea about when I am looking at the target on a switch stand.
You, sir, are speaking from experience, I imagine. Let me draw you a picture and you tell me how I am wrong.
Four days this week we have one yard crew sitting and waiting for another yard crew, which, the former, is on overtime, to complete their work. Simple math here. The company is paying 6 people to do the work of 3 and 3 of them are at 1.5 times rate. There is nothing in our collective agreement that stops us from relieving the other crew. The problem, we need a 5 or 10 minute drive to get to the other crew and we can't get one. The solution. Put us in a vehicle and take us to the other crew's location. Drive the other crew back to the station. Do we need to do a cost benefit analysis here?
Enter the managers. First, the "yard master" is fully aware of the situation but his hands are tied because he is at a remote location. However, the trainmaster is in the office right beside me. He is getting into his personal car and driving home because it is almost time to go home. He is taking a "quit". The relief trainmaster may or may not show up on time and then usually just gets into the company truck and drives away. They don't know what is going on and if they do, they don't care.
On a more positive note, there are a couple of trainmasters that I have full respect for. They come to work on time and do a little extra if required. They are out and about asking how they can help to get things moving. They will bring you a coffee once in a while or maybe even a meal if you have been working 10 or 11 hours with little or no breaks. I respect these trainmasters fully and will do anything reasonable to help them out. They remind me of the good officers from my army days.
These other clowns who show up late, don't care about the crews and don't care about the operations of their district, I have no time for them. I cannot wait for them to be gone.
Sir, you don't know my past. Be rest assured my choice of being behind the control stand is mine. I am there because I enjoy the work. I like trains and I like moving them. After college I was a junior manager at Sears when I decided I did not like sitting behind a desk all day answering emails. Some people like driving a desk, I like driving trains.
So I give my ideas to the managers I like. Most of the time they are ignored and that is fine. However, I have seen my ideas implemented and it gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I am willing to give my expertise to anyone who will listen and I am able to shut my trap when they say I am wrong.
Why did Ackman enter this proxy battle and install an new CEO? He saw we were underperforming and realized that management at all levels were not able to perform their duties. What I have seen so far since Hunter has taken over as CEO is proof that the operating employees were right in their belief that management is/was not accountable. It started at the top with the former CEO and it was seen at all levels. Fred Green was paid quite well to almost run this company into the ground. He wasn't accountable! Plan after plan was propsed from upper management just to have them fail. Why? Because management would not buy into the plans coming from Calgary. Without buy in at all levels, plans will fail.
Why did lower managment disbelieve the plans from upper managment? In my opinion it is because we stopped railroading. Like I said at the very top of this thread we changed our core philosophy from "keep the wheels turning", to "nobody moves, nobody gets hurt." This situation became very demoralizing.
This is why the shareholders voted to oust the previous CEO and install a new CEO. I guarantee we will start to see accountability from all levels. The bums at all levels will be weeded out and fired. It is easy to fire someone, doesn't matter if they are union or not.
It will be amazing how fast our OR will start to drop. It will start to drop in 1 or 2 quarters.
Thanks for letting me rant.
More likely they decided that the equipment would make more money deployed elsewhere. Only competition is and always has been BNSF.
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