Time to revive this thread?
December 28:
Tay Bridge disaster.
Arizona, November 25th:
In 1926, Southern Pacific trains from Tucson through Yaquai country in Mexico began operating on daylight schedules only, and with Mexican military guards to protect them from Indian attack.
Arizona, November 11th:
In 1926, an attempt by train robbers to cause a head-on collision between the Golden State Limited and the Sunset Express on the Southern Pacific line near Gila Bend was foiled by an alert engineer.
Arizona, October 18th:
In 1893, hundreds of unemployed men from California moved east along the railroad tracks. Tucson police patrolled the tracks, giving each man a loaf of bread and ordering him to move on.
Arizona, October 8th:
In 1878, Southern Pacific Railroad received a charter from the Territory of Arizona and permission to cross the Military Reservation at Yuma.
In 1908, the announcement was made that as a result of the failure of the reverbatory furnace at Helvetia to give the proper results, 100 tons of ore would be shipped daily from Helvetia to the Old Dominion smelters at Globe. The ore would be freighted to Vail Station, shipped on the Southern Pacific to Bowie, then on to Globe over the Gila Valley, Globe and Northern Railroad.
In 1914, the Apache Trail Stage Company was chartered to haul passengers from the railroad station at Globe to Phoenix, where passengers could resume their rail journey.
Arizona, October 2nd:
In 1924, thousands of Phoenix citizens gathered at Union Station to celebrate the arrival of the Southern Pacific mainline.
Arizona, September 30th:
In 1894, the eastbound Southern Pacific Express was held up by train robbers at Maricopa. The robbers were unable to open the safe, and took only a small amount of cash and a gold watch from the train crew.
In 1924, the Interstate Commerce Commission approved the Southern Pacific Railroad plan to acquire control of the El Paso & Southwestern R.R. and build a main line through Phoenix.
Arizona, September 29th:
In 1877, the first Southern Pacific engine on a regular run entered Arizona at 11 p.m. in Yuma.
Today (September 12) is the 5th anniversary of the Chatsworth, CA crash.
Arizona, September 9th:
In 1899, the Southern Pacific train was held up at Cochise and $10,000 stolen. Two Cochise County law enforcement officers were later caught and convicted of the crime.
Arizona, September 8th:
In 1886, Geronimo and his band were assembled and marched from Fort Bowie to Bowie Station, where they were loaded on trains bound for Florida. The 4th Cavalry Regimental Band played "Auld Lang Syne" as the Apaches boarded the trains.
Arizona, August 14th:
In 1898, a violent storm swept through Gila Bend, demolishing the school, tearing the drug store off its foundation, wrecking the Southern Pacific roundhouse and overturning freight cars.
On this day 130 years ago the Texas & St. Louis Railway was completed at Rob Roy, Arkansas. President of the road Colonel James Paramore drove a silver spike on the Arkansas River Bridge to complete the road. Now complete the Texas & St. Louis had a narrow guage route from Birds Point, Missouri to Gatesville, Texas. From the Cotton Belt News October 1957 issue "History of the Cotton Belt".
Arizona, August 8th:
In 1930, cloudbursts over the state caused extensive damage. A trestle gave away near Winslow and the Santa Fe eastbound passenger train dropped into a wash. Two were killed and 39 injured.
Arizona, August 5th:
In 1931, the Southern Pacific passenger train, The Argonaut, derailed east of Yuma, killing two passengers and injuring 15.
Arizona, August 2nd:
In 1929, passengers on transcontinental trains, which were delayed by washouts, cleaned out the entire food supply of many small towns. The town of Bowie reported nothing left but coffee.
Arizona, July 21st:
In 1903, a severe rainstorm between the Dragoon Mountains and Tombstone washed out six El Paso and Southwestern Railroad bridges and flooded Fairbank with six feet of water.
July 13, 1877. The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad cut wages 10 per cent for all employees making over $1.00 per day. Almost immediately the firemen struck. By the end of the day tracks were blockaded and freight trains were not allowed to pass through to Baltimore. The strike spread throughout the nation. Ultimately the strikers lost but a fair amount of damage was done to a number of railroads. Other strikes would follow before the turn of the century.
Arizona, July 3:
In 1887, the first railroad line to Phoenix began operation. Crowds gathered at the depot as the first engine pulled into town with three little girls ringing the bell.
June 21, 1970. The Penn Central Railroad declares bankruptcy. This is the largest single American company to go bankrupt up to that time.
If you are interested in this part of railroad history, may I recommend The Wreck of the Penn Central by Joseph R. Daughen and Peter Binzen.
To anyone who reads the above post:
I have proposed to Greyhounds that we stop the exchange of personal attacks because I think such quarrelsome posts are at best tiresome to others. I intend to stick to my proposal. Greyhounds speaks for himself. You may draw your own conclusions.
John WR greyhoundsAs usual, I find your interpretations of historical facts to be rather imaginative. Well, Greyhounds, if this is true you seem to be no slouch yourself when it comes to imagination. We are really saying the same thing. The only difference is that I prefer to avoid emotional language but beneath it there is no difference in what we are saying except, perhaps, you point out that Gould wanted to make money for himself. That is true and Jay Gould pointed it out when he testified to the Congress. He was President of the Erie Railroad. If the Railroad profited by hauling grain he too would profit and he would make money. In an earlier post you argued that is was desirable that Collis Huntington should become wealthy. So what is wrong if Jay Gould became wealthy too? John
greyhoundsAs usual, I find your interpretations of historical facts to be rather imaginative.
Well, Greyhounds, if this is true you seem to be no slouch yourself when it comes to imagination. We are really saying the same thing. The only difference is that I prefer to avoid emotional language but beneath it there is no difference in what we are saying except, perhaps, you point out that Gould wanted to make money for himself. That is true and Jay Gould pointed it out when he testified to the Congress. He was President of the Erie Railroad. If the Railroad profited by hauling grain he too would profit and he would make money. In an earlier post you argued that is was desirable that Collis Huntington should become wealthy. So what is wrong if Jay Gould became wealthy too?
John
I am in a conudrum over this post.
For the record, I have never said that it was "desireable" that Collis Hungington should become wealthy. You may check my postings. Niether did I ever say that it was wrong for Jay Gould to become wealthy. You may also check my postings on that one.
So why is this guy out here making these false claims? I don't know.
My first inclination is to believe that he's a manipulative, ideologial driven, liar. But no, never attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance.
He's consistently demonstrated a lack of knowledge regarding transportation, railroading, economics, and commerce. So I just believe he doesn't understand this stuff. I believe he reads without comprehension. I really think that's why he falsely writes that I "argued" that " it was "desireable" that Huntington should become wealthy when I did no such thing.
What I said was that Huntington and the others of the "Big Four" who built the Central Pacific and the Southern Pacific became wealthy. "Good for them". Heck fire, becoming wealthy would be good for anybody. I certainly don't support becoming wealthy through selling cocaine, but building and operating railroads is beneficial. Unlike cocaine distribution.
I'm not about to let this guy continue to post falsehoods. But I won't pick a fight unless he does. Unfortunatly, he seems Hell bent on rewriting history (and my posts) and I will call him on that every time.
Unless I'm on vacation or something.
June 20, 1862. The United States Senate passed the Pacific Railroad Act. The House would pass it on June 24 and President Abraham Lincoln would sign it into law on July 1. There would be more laws including the second Pacific Railroad Act but this act began America's railroads to the west coast.
John WR greyhoundsAs usual, I find your interpretations of historical facts to be rather imaginative. PS. Greyhounds, I propose that we stop posting to each other. My experience is that other people's quarrelsome posts are tiresome and I don't want to inflict that on other posters. Besides, it would really be a shame if we caused this whole thread to be locked. Have a good day. John
PS.
Greyhounds,
I propose that we stop posting to each other. My experience is that other people's quarrelsome posts are tiresome and I don't want to inflict that on other posters. Besides, it would really be a shame if we caused this whole thread to be locked. Have a good day.
Nope.
I place a high value on the truth. Too much of railroad history is wrapped up in myth. I don't intend to remain silent and let people pervert history to suit their own agenda.
JUNE 17, 1953:
The final run of steam locomotives on Southern Railway. 60 years ago today!
John WR What are we to think of Jay Gould? In his day he was reviled as satan incarnate. Today we have the benefit of historical perspective. He is well known for fighting and winning the Erie Wars with Cornelius Vanderbilt in the 1860's. Gould quickly adopted Vanderbilt's tactics; both men bribed judges and legislators. Before we judge either man too harshly, though, I think we should bear in mind that they were simply following the rules of their day. Most of all, after Vanderbilt, Daniel Drew and their cronies stripped the Erie of all of its resources Gould picked up the pieces, got it running again and substantially increased the value of its stock. Never the less he was secretive to the point where stockholders eventually pushed him out of the Presidency with a Federal lawsuit. While he was President of the Erie he also is known for the Gold Corner. He saw that President Grant's policy of maintaining the price of 100 gold dollars at 100 greenback dollars would cause great losses to wheat farmers in harvesting the bumper crop of 1869. He persuaded President Grant to hold gold from Fort Knox off the market to let the price rise so wheat farmers could make a profit. To obtain Grant's cooperation he made "loans" which were really bribes to Grants's brother in law, Abel Corwin, Grant's sister, Virginia Grant Corwin and Grant's wife Julia. Gould testified to the Congress that his interest, as President of the Erie, was in freight revenue from shipping wheat. Gould had bought gold on his own account. Ultimately, when the price of gold was above $160 in greenbacks Grant released gold from Fort Knox and over night the price dropped to $135 in greenbacks for $100 in gold. Whether Gould made money, lost money or came out even is not known. He went on to become President of the Union Pacific and then the Missouri Pacific as well as being involved in New York rapid transit and the telegraph business. When he died in 1892 he had the second largest fortune in America. My own sources of information are Maury Klein The Life and Legend of Jay Gould and T. J. Stiles The First Tycoon, a biography of Cornelius Vanderbilt.
What are we to think of Jay Gould? In his day he was reviled as satan incarnate. Today we have the benefit of historical perspective.
He is well known for fighting and winning the Erie Wars with Cornelius Vanderbilt in the 1860's. Gould quickly adopted Vanderbilt's tactics; both men bribed judges and legislators. Before we judge either man too harshly, though, I think we should bear in mind that they were simply following the rules of their day. Most of all, after Vanderbilt, Daniel Drew and their cronies stripped the Erie of all of its resources Gould picked up the pieces, got it running again and substantially increased the value of its stock. Never the less he was secretive to the point where stockholders eventually pushed him out of the Presidency with a Federal lawsuit.
While he was President of the Erie he also is known for the Gold Corner. He saw that President Grant's policy of maintaining the price of 100 gold dollars at 100 greenback dollars would cause great losses to wheat farmers in harvesting the bumper crop of 1869. He persuaded President Grant to hold gold from Fort Knox off the market to let the price rise so wheat farmers could make a profit. To obtain Grant's cooperation he made "loans" which were really bribes to Grants's brother in law, Abel Corwin, Grant's sister, Virginia Grant Corwin and Grant's wife Julia. Gould testified to the Congress that his interest, as President of the Erie, was in freight revenue from shipping wheat. Gould had bought gold on his own account. Ultimately, when the price of gold was above $160 in greenbacks Grant released gold from Fort Knox and over night the price dropped to $135 in greenbacks for $100 in gold. Whether Gould made money, lost money or came out even is not known.
He went on to become President of the Union Pacific and then the Missouri Pacific as well as being involved in New York rapid transit and the telegraph business. When he died in 1892 he had the second largest fortune in America.
My own sources of information are Maury Klein The Life and Legend of Jay Gould and T. J. Stiles The First Tycoon, a biography of Cornelius Vanderbilt.
As usual, I find your interpretations of historical facts to be rather imaginative.
To suggest that Jay Gould was acting out of an altruistic concern for farmers is quite a stretch. He was trying to make some big money for himself. That's it. That's all. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that.
But he did try to get President Grant to withold goverment gold from the market. He bought some access to Grant by cutting Grant's brother-in-law in on the deal. He also gave the US Treasury official in New York City, who was in charge of government gold sales, $10,000. (The treasury guy lost his job over this.) Gould pitched Grant that a higher price of gold would be good for the farmers And it would have been. So? Gould's pitch for the farmers was but a ruse to influence Grant.
Grant didn't bite. Neither he nor his wife were "IN' on the deal.
Gould was able to run the price of gold up to about $160/oz. before some guy named Brown (You may have heard of Brown Brothers Harriman) called his bluff and sold significant gold at that price. This shifted the market and the price trended down. Then Grant unfortunately brought the government in and began selling gold. This crashed the market and all kinds of bad things resulted. The market was taking care of itself until the government came in.
Instead of an orderly market work out we got a government instigated crash that hurt a lot of folks. Gould may have been a sharp operator, but he wasn't smarter than everyone. Mr. Brown showed that.
.
And what a train it was. For many years it was the New York Central's most famous train and, with the Pennsylvania's Broadway Limited, is one of the two most famous trains in America. In 1938 it covered 961 miles in 16 hours stopping at Harmon (to change engines), Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Toledo and Chicago. Today Amtrak's Lakeshore Limited covers the same route with many more stops.
1902 The 20th Century Limited, an express passenger train between New York and Chicago, began service.
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