Technical Problem with "Runaway Train Type Movies"

[Anonymous]

A few years ago a New Jersey Transit morning commuter train was a "runaway." The overworked engineer fell asleep. Too bad. He was killed along with a few passengers when it ran into another commuter train.

Happened in the Jersey swamps just west of the Bergen Tunnels. A real b*tch for emergency personnel to get to the crash site.

[Anonymous]

All this makes me wonder, how are locomotives or for that matter, trains designed to react in a collision? Are cabs or frames somehow assimetrical to deflect a collison to one side or the other? Are cars also designed this way?

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfinder22

1. Why does not anyone ever think of using the Dynamic Brake?

You can't fully stop a train using dynamic brakes but they will get you down to about 10-12 Mph which, then, you could probably jump off safely.

But hey, afterall its just a movie.[:)]

that is not 100%... depending on if thier is small terrain diffrances such as a gentel hill.. going up it..you can bring the train to a stop with Dynamics... also on a level hunk of rail road..you can damn near bring it to a stop... to within a mile per hour or 2...i do it all the time...but the slower you go in speed...the less affective your dynamics are...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

If there are so many technical problems with a runaway train how come the CSX had one not so long ago. I remember another locomotive chasing the runaway to grab it and slow it down and I remember something about the police shooting guns at the EFCOs trying to shut it down (yea right). I also remember the engine # was 8888
Randy

yes i remember that day very well too.... i got a call from my inlaws asking me if csx pays goast engineers the same as liveing ones.... also got a funny email about 2 days later with a pic of csx 8888 in the side of a milk car....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

I recall that "True" runaways are really things to fear. Alot of technology goes to prevent them. There is a bit of too much "Hollywood" in some of these movies.

I too recall the runaway desiels in ohio a few years back, the only problem they had to worry about is "Is the coupler open on that runaway engine?"

On areas where trains threaten to runaway the railroad takes trouble to install derails and procedures for communication in case of trouble. Of course these are not really visable in the movie.

The GG1 with the passenger train into Washington Station was a true runaway. I believe that they actually built a temporary platform over the sunken engine to accomodate the people for several days.

[dehusman]

By the way, steam engines don't have dynamic brakes.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Steam engines used there valves to everse the steam so steam would build uo presuere and slow down the train

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

I recall that "True" runaways are really things to fear. Alot of technology goes to prevent them. There is a bit of too much "Hollywood" in some of these movies.

I too recall the runaway desiels in ohio a few years back, the only problem they had to worry about is "Is the coupler open on that runaway engine?"

On areas where trains threaten to runaway the railroad takes trouble to install derails and procedures for communication in case of trouble. Of course these are not really visable in the movie.

The GG1 with the passenger train into Washington Station was a true runaway. I believe that they actually built a temporary platform over the sunken engine to accomodate the people for several days.

they built a platform over it for the President of the US...something with him giveing a speach or something thier.... later that GG1 was cut into pieces...taken back to altoona...reasembled..and put back into service....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

And how about "The Fugitive" with Harrison Ford when the train crashed into the over-turned bus. It was filmed on the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad in North Carolina and took a lot of work to setup the crash and everything. Been a long time since I've seen it, but it seemed to be fairly realistic.

[trainfan1221]

One of the things I like about these movies as a train fanatic is picking out all the inconcistencies. There are several, including a pretty good film called "Disaster on the Coastliner." Runaway Train was pretty good, but its hard when you realize that the female character was supposed to be some kind of railroad employee and seemed relatively clueless.
One thing I like is the way horsepower ratings are always exaggerated on diesels. I have seen a 3600hp RS3 on CHiPS, and there was a movie about a runaway ski train where they were saved by a new super locomotive, a GP40, which had I believe 8600hp. I guess they really beefed that one up.

[trainfan1221]

If I recall they were both scrap engines with little insides. What I didn't believe is that a train would fly off the tracks and become that wrecked by simply hitting a school bus type vehicle.

[egmurphy]

I think the temporary platform built at Washington Union Station was to accomodate all the visitor traffic expected to arrive in Washington by train for the presidential inauguration a few days later (Eisenhower's first term). Here's a link to an account of that runaway and wreck:
http://www.dcnrhs.org/union_station/union_wreck.htm

Ed

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I think the temporary platform built at Washington Union Station was to accomodate all the visitor traffic expected to arrive in Washington by train for the presidential inauguration a few days later (Eisenhower's first term). Here's a link to an account of that runaway and wreck:
http://www.dcnrhs.org/union_station/union_wreck.htm

Ed

yea..thats what it was..i knew it had some connection to the president in some way.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Is it just me, or do film makers have a fetish with Ex BC Rail MLW M-420Ws? Like in "Atomic Train."

Case in point:
http://elclip.net/642.JPG

[Anonymous]

my favorite part in Runaway Train is when they sma***he caboose, run through the switch, and keep going. the part about the female conductor being clueless isn't too far fetched, a number of conductors have no clue. and when the engineer pets the train in emergency before he crokes, come on, i don't even remember hearing the air blow when he done that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CliqueofOne

A real Runaway. http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/index.html

Kurosawa's original script foir "Runaway Train" was inspired by a real runaway -- a cut of locomotives parked idling on a siding that somehow throttled up and ran something like 50 miles or more; i forget exact date and location, but i believe it was in either New York State or somewhere else in the Northeast, and that the date was sometime in the 50s

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfinder22

2.Even Steam engines has some form of Dynamic Braking

Ummm -- hello? Unless i'm rather confused, dynamic braking involves using the traction motors as generators and then dumping the resulting current into Great Big resistor loads. (On trolley lines, the dynamic brakes pump power back into the line).

I question if this would be possible while current is being applied to drive the motors; and i have never seen or heard of a steam locomotive with traaction engines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: the controls on that locomotive and how they were on the left instead of the right.

Does anyone know if the cab interior that they used was the actual cab of the locomotive seen in the film?

Since someone has said that the station is the NorthWestern Madison STreet station (of which i have fond memories from my time stationed at Great Lakes in 1968), could they have used a CNW locomotive or a cab mockup of one (since CNW was a left-hand runner last i heard).

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fairportfan

QUOTE: the controls on that locomotive and how they were on the left instead of the right.

Does anyone know if the cab interior that they used was the actual cab of the locomotive seen in the film?

Since someone has said that the station is the NorthWestern Madison STreet station (of which i have fond memories from my time stationed at Great Lakes in 1968), could they have used a CNW locomotive or a cab mockup of one (since CNW was a left-hand runner last i heard).

The approach to the bumping post was indeed filmed in the CNW station in downtown Chicago (I was working there that day). They mounted the camera on a hi-rail truck and backed the truck into the depot on track 2.

The CNW F&E units did not have any cab controls (other than an emergency brake valve) on the "fireman's" side of the locomotive.

[tatans]

The answer of course lies with "Petticoat Junction" there was always a runa way coach or train on every second show.

[Anonymous]

What did you guys think of the movie "Tough Guys"?

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=2041

It seemed pretty believable to me

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by blaze
the part about the female conductor being clueless isn't too far fetched, a number of conductors have no clue.

Actually my memory is she was a clerk or something like that. Not an operating employee. As for dynamic brakes; they couldn't get to the lead unit to set them.

[espeefoamer]

In the Gene Wilder movie,someone in the dispatcher's office remarks that the train will run "all the way to Marshal Fields." Marshal Fields is east of Union Station and the tracks are on a north south axis.

[Anonymous]

Most run away train movies run in parallel format side by side are idenical. Little plot and plemty of situations that happen as they figure out how they are to get out of one mess into another.

[traintownofcowee]

And how about "The Fugitive" with Harrison Ford when the train crashed into the over-turned bus. It was filmed on the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad in North Carolina and took a lot of work to setup the crash and everything. Been a long time since I've seen it, but it seemed to be fairly realistic.

I just saw it last month. Its all still there.

The track they used to run the train off is now used as a siding by the GSMR.

[chad thomas]

What did you guys think of the movie "Tough Guys"?

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=2041

It seemed pretty believable to me

One of my all time favorites (and not just because of the trains either). Some great shots of 4449 with Doyle himself at the throttle. It was filmed around Taylor yard in LA and on the old Eagle Mountain mine railroad north of the Salton Sea.

[videomaker]

It dont work.Danny

A real Runaway. http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/index.html

[Anonymous]

Was there two weeks ago doing some research, and yes, the two locomotives are still there.  I met and talked with the trainman who helped set up the wreck.  His story is an interesting one.  They had set explosives under the tracks to get the locomotives to roll.  The charges were encased in PVC pipes.  Well, the Hollyweird greensmen saw the white pipes on the ground and covered them up with dirt and ballast.  This had the effect of "shaping" the explosion, so that the engines didn't roll, but derailed.  Nobody wanted to do a second take, and my GSMR trainman was really disappointed at the results... 

The locomotives used in the film were brought in by the production company, and GSMR was allowed to strip the engines of useable parts that weren't visible.  The shot was done by a third locomotive pushing the first two along, and that was a GSMR locomotive.

Incidentally, the shot of Harrison Ford wandering out of a railroad tunnel was also shot on the GSMR.  That particular tunnel was hand cut in the 1880's by state prisoners, and is just west of Dillsboro on the GSMR main.  The only "smooth" part of the tunnel is where it collapsed at one point, and it has been blocked and bricked over to make a smooth interior. 

[Jack_S]

For 30 years my hobby was working as a volunteer auto racing official and track worker.  Don't get me started on racing movies.  Only "Le Mans" and "Grand Prix" are accurate.  And TV shows with a racing theme are uniformly horrible. 

There was one "Quincy" that was particularly bad, but "Quincy" was noted for that in all fields.  Quincy once showed a scene at a general aviation airport that was supposed to be on Long Island, NY.  There was a line of palm trees clearly visible in the middle distance.

Jack

[Anonymous]

The Atomic Train was the last runaway I wanted to watch. Im sorry I did.

I dont do runaways much these days, Ive survived a few in trucking. (And no, no ramps neither)