Technical Problem with "Runaway Train Type Movies"

[Anonymous]

Well, there are two different types.  Standard Range which gets you down to I believe 10 or 15, and then you have the extended ranged which will bring you to stop.

Noooo.  First, there are D.C. and A.C. locomotives.  D.C. locomotives have standard or extended range dynamic brakes.  A.C. do not have the feature as their dynamic brakes are controlled quite differently.  With D.C. locomotives dynamic brakes will not stop a train unless the train is going upgrade or is on perfectly level track, and no one cares within +/- a mile or so where the train comes to a stop.  A.C. locomotives can stop a train with DB alone, assuming the maximum braking effort provided by the locomotives is sufficient.  But the engineer still generally applies some train air or independent brakes for fine control as Wabash pointed out.

For D.C. locomotives, as speed falls (the traction motor turns at a slower speed) the voltage falls, and thus braking effort diminishes (P = I2 * R).  Standard dynamic brakes have a designed speed at which maximum braking effort occurs; generally around 20 mph.  From 20 to 0 mph braking effort goes to zero proportionately.  Extended range uses contactors to short out sections of the dynamic brake grid step-wise in order to decrease the resistance of the grid down to about 7-8 mph.  Below that speed, dynamic braking effort goes to zero proportionagte with speed, just as with non-extended range dynamic brakes.  (There was apparently an option to obtain extended range brakes that would decrease the minimum speed for maximum effort to ~ 3-4 mph, but I don't if any railroad ever bought it; I've never seen it on a locomotive.)

Scroll to the bottom of the page linked below for a graph that shows braking effort vs. speed for an A.C. locomotive and a D.C. locomotive equipped with extended range DB:

http://www.unisa.edu.au/misg/2000/NRC/index.html

S. Hadid 

[Anonymous]

Well, there are two different types.  Standard Range which gets you down to I believe 10 or 15, and then you have the extended ranged which will bring you to stop.

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfinder22

1. Why does not anyone ever think of using the Dynamic Brake?

You can't fully stop a train using dynamic brakes but they will get you down to about 10-12 Mph which, then, you could probably jump off safely.

But hey, afterall its just a movie.

well i wonder what im doing differant to stop my train when using dynamic brakes? I seem to stop and then apply independant to hold it. I use dyanamic 98% of the time to stop my train in the winter time.

[wabash1]

What I like is how they ignore the fact of the "deadman control" when the engineer is "incapacitated", or better yet, the engineer goes on when communication is lost, etc...

in modern day engines there is no dead man pedal or controll, and is not required. the alerter as it is called is not required and is not on all engines

[Ham549]

"Vic, I laways liked the scene where Steven Segal slides open a window on a Superliner car." must have never ridden amtrak thoes were defenetely not superliners at all. In fact thoes were real railroad cars custom made for the movie by colorido railcar. Also if the brake line snaps but there is no air in the resevor the train will keep going.

[cprted]

1. Why does not anyone ever think of using the Dynamic Brake?
2.Even Steam engines has some form of Dynamic Braking
3. When cars are cut loose the brakes always snap on not off as the air pistons seperate the brakes

Suspend your disbelief.

[Anonymous]

Did you see Back to The Future 3, where they destroy a steam loco by driving it off an uncompleted bridge? That isn't so bad, plausability-wise, but I hate to see an operating steam loco destroyed.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

What did you guys think of the movie "Tough Guys"?

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=2041

It seemed pretty believable to me

One of my all time favorites (and not just because of the trains either). Some great shots of 4449 with Doyle himself at the throttle. It was filmed around Taylor yard in LA and on the old Eagle Mountain mine railroad north of the Salton Sea.

I read that Doyle was shown at the throttle of 4449 because it was easier to make him an actor (he had a line or two) and pay dues to the Screen Actors Guild than to try to teach some dues-paying actor how to run a steam locomotive.

[Texas Chief]

I always sort of liked the Gene Wilder/Richard Pryor comedy, "Silver Streak," shot with VIA equipment. The interior of the train looked like everything an Amtrak train should but doesn't, and when it comes to the inevitable runaway scene, there IS a deadman's pedal (a heavy tool box holds it down) and the brakes on the passenger cars DO set when the coupling is broken.

Did you also notice that the engineer was on the wrong side of the engine??

Dick

Texas Chief

[Anonymous]

The Atomic Train was the last runaway I wanted to watch. Im sorry I did.

I dont do runaways much these days, Ive survived a few in trucking. (And no, no ramps neither)

[Jack_S]

For 30 years my hobby was working as a volunteer auto racing official and track worker.  Don't get me started on racing movies.  Only "Le Mans" and "Grand Prix" are accurate.  And TV shows with a racing theme are uniformly horrible. 

There was one "Quincy" that was particularly bad, but "Quincy" was noted for that in all fields.  Quincy once showed a scene at a general aviation airport that was supposed to be on Long Island, NY.  There was a line of palm trees clearly visible in the middle distance.

Jack

[Anonymous]

Was there two weeks ago doing some research, and yes, the two locomotives are still there.  I met and talked with the trainman who helped set up the wreck.  His story is an interesting one.  They had set explosives under the tracks to get the locomotives to roll.  The charges were encased in PVC pipes.  Well, the Hollyweird greensmen saw the white pipes on the ground and covered them up with dirt and ballast.  This had the effect of "shaping" the explosion, so that the engines didn't roll, but derailed.  Nobody wanted to do a second take, and my GSMR trainman was really disappointed at the results... 

The locomotives used in the film were brought in by the production company, and GSMR was allowed to strip the engines of useable parts that weren't visible.  The shot was done by a third locomotive pushing the first two along, and that was a GSMR locomotive.

Incidentally, the shot of Harrison Ford wandering out of a railroad tunnel was also shot on the GSMR.  That particular tunnel was hand cut in the 1880's by state prisoners, and is just west of Dillsboro on the GSMR main.  The only "smooth" part of the tunnel is where it collapsed at one point, and it has been blocked and bricked over to make a smooth interior. 

[videomaker]

It dont work.Danny

A real Runaway. http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/index.html

[chad thomas]

What did you guys think of the movie "Tough Guys"?

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=2041

It seemed pretty believable to me

One of my all time favorites (and not just because of the trains either). Some great shots of 4449 with Doyle himself at the throttle. It was filmed around Taylor yard in LA and on the old Eagle Mountain mine railroad north of the Salton Sea.

[traintownofcowee]

And how about "The Fugitive" with Harrison Ford when the train crashed into the over-turned bus. It was filmed on the Great Smoky Mountains Railroad in North Carolina and took a lot of work to setup the crash and everything. Been a long time since I've seen it, but it seemed to be fairly realistic.

I just saw it last month. Its all still there.

The track they used to run the train off is now used as a siding by the GSMR.

[Anonymous]

Most run away train movies run in parallel format side by side are idenical. Little plot and plemty of situations that happen as they figure out how they are to get out of one mess into another.

[espeefoamer]

In the Gene Wilder movie,someone in the dispatcher's office remarks that the train will run "all the way to Marshal Fields." Marshal Fields is east of Union Station and the tracks are on a north south axis.

[corwinda]

QUOTE: Originally posted by blaze
the part about the female conductor being clueless isn't too far fetched, a number of conductors have no clue.

Actually my memory is she was a clerk or something like that. Not an operating employee. As for dynamic brakes; they couldn't get to the lead unit to set them.

[Anonymous]

What did you guys think of the movie "Tough Guys"?

http://entertainment.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=2041

It seemed pretty believable to me

[tatans]

The answer of course lies with "Petticoat Junction" there was always a runa way coach or train on every second show.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fairportfan

QUOTE: the controls on that locomotive and how they were on the left instead of the right.

Does anyone know if the cab interior that they used was the actual cab of the locomotive seen in the film?

Since someone has said that the station is the NorthWestern Madison STreet station (of which i have fond memories from my time stationed at Great Lakes in 1968), could they have used a CNW locomotive or a cab mockup of one (since CNW was a left-hand runner last i heard).

The approach to the bumping post was indeed filmed in the CNW station in downtown Chicago (I was working there that day). They mounted the camera on a hi-rail truck and backed the truck into the depot on track 2.

The CNW F&E units did not have any cab controls (other than an emergency brake valve) on the "fireman's" side of the locomotive.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: the controls on that locomotive and how they were on the left instead of the right.

Does anyone know if the cab interior that they used was the actual cab of the locomotive seen in the film?

Since someone has said that the station is the NorthWestern Madison STreet station (of which i have fond memories from my time stationed at Great Lakes in 1968), could they have used a CNW locomotive or a cab mockup of one (since CNW was a left-hand runner last i heard).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfinder22

2.Even Steam engines has some form of Dynamic Braking

Ummm -- hello? Unless i'm rather confused, dynamic braking involves using the traction motors as generators and then dumping the resulting current into Great Big resistor loads. (On trolley lines, the dynamic brakes pump power back into the line).

I question if this would be possible while current is being applied to drive the motors; and i have never seen or heard of a steam locomotive with traaction engines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CliqueofOne

A real Runaway. http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/index.html

Kurosawa's original script foir "Runaway Train" was inspired by a real runaway -- a cut of locomotives parked idling on a siding that somehow throttled up and ran something like 50 miles or more; i forget exact date and location, but i believe it was in either New York State or somewhere else in the Northeast, and that the date was sometime in the 50s

[Anonymous]

my favorite part in Runaway Train is when they sma***he caboose, run through the switch, and keep going. the part about the female conductor being clueless isn't too far fetched, a number of conductors have no clue. and when the engineer pets the train in emergency before he crokes, come on, i don't even remember hearing the air blow when he done that.

[Anonymous]

Is it just me, or do film makers have a fetish with Ex BC Rail MLW M-420Ws? Like in "Atomic Train."

Case in point:
http://elclip.net/642.JPG

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I think the temporary platform built at Washington Union Station was to accomodate all the visitor traffic expected to arrive in Washington by train for the presidential inauguration a few days later (Eisenhower's first term). Here's a link to an account of that runaway and wreck:
http://www.dcnrhs.org/union_station/union_wreck.htm

Ed

yea..thats what it was..i knew it had some connection to the president in some way.....
csx engineer

[egmurphy]

I think the temporary platform built at Washington Union Station was to accomodate all the visitor traffic expected to arrive in Washington by train for the presidential inauguration a few days later (Eisenhower's first term). Here's a link to an account of that runaway and wreck:
http://www.dcnrhs.org/union_station/union_wreck.htm

Ed

[trainfan1221]

If I recall they were both scrap engines with little insides. What I didn't believe is that a train would fly off the tracks and become that wrecked by simply hitting a school bus type vehicle.