Does anyone know how many women currently work for Class I railroads as locomotive engineers, conductors, and trainmen? Does anyone know where I can find that information?
CP_RAILFAN Does anyone know how many women currently work for Class I railroads as locomotive engineers, conductors, and trainmen? Does anyone know where I can find that information?
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Household Data, Employed Persons by detailed occupation, sex, race, or Latino ethnicity, which is drawn in part from the U.S. Census Bureau 2010 data, in 2011 the U.S. had 45,000 locomotive engineers and operators, 5,000 railroad brake, signal and switch operators, and 52,000 railroad conductors and yard masters. These numbers, which are derived from statistical samplings, have been rounded when projected to the population as a whole.
Nothing is simple when it comes to wading through government reports. Another BLS table for May 2010 shows 39,300 locomotive engineers. I suspect the difference is a function of timing, as well as classification parameters. It appears that the 39,300 figure consists of engineers who are driving trains, although not necessarily for Class I railroads, whereas the 45,000 figure includes those who may have been working engineers, i.e. they have a license, but have moved on to supervision, management, or have left railroad employment.
The job classification system used by the BLS is probably somewhat different than what you have in mind. Because the BLS classifies a broad spectrum of jobs, it may included in locomotive engineers people that you would not classify as such. Nevertheless, the BLS numbers provide a reasonable picture.
The BLS numbers do not show the percentage of locomotive engineers and operators or railroad brake, signal and switch operators who are women. This probably means that less than one per cent of the sample was women. As a rule the BLS does not show percentages of less than one per cent. However, 6.6% of the railroad conductors and yard masters were women.
In January I rode a San Joaquin train from Emeryville to Bakersfield enroute to Santa Barbara. Southbound the locomotive is pushing the train, which means if one gets a front seat in the first car and the engineers leaves the door open, which was the case on my train, he has an "engineers" view of the ride. As it turned out, on the leg from Fresno to Bakersfield the train was operated by the Road Foreman of Engines. I had a chance to talk with him. Amongst other things I asked him why he was running the train. He told me that he was short six engineers, i.e. Amtrak was looking for six engineers in that area. He also told me that approximately 30 per cent of his engineers are females. In fact, from Emeryville to Fresno, I believe that is where they change crews, a rookie engineer was being supervised by a woman, who I later found out has been with Amtrak for more than 20 years.
Here is a little bonus that you did not ask for. The mean wage for locomotive engineers in 2010 was $50,870 per year, whilst the median wage was $46,630. To determine the total compensation package, HR people normally add another 25 to 35% for overheads, i.e. pension, healthcare, payroll taxes, etc. Using 30% as a rough estimate, the mean compensation package for a locomotive engineer would have been $66,131 and the median would have been $60,619. The top ten percentile had average annual wages of $74,600 plus overheads whilst the first or bottom 10 percentile had average annual wages of $33,550 plus overheads. I suspect many of those in the bottom 10 percentile were rookies or working for small regionals.
I wonder why the low number of female train employees? Is it still discrimination or do women simply not view working for the railroad as an employment option? Look at other operator positions...women account for at least 30% to 40% of bus drivers now. Truck drivers...I'd say the percentage is 15 % or so now and growing rapidly. Many female airline pilots too although not sure of the percentage.
Ulrich I wonder why the low number of female train employees? Is it still discrimination or do women simply not view working for the railroad as an employment option? Look at other operator positions...women account for at least 30% to 40% of bus drivers now. Truck drivers...I'd say the percentage is 15 % or so now and growing rapidly. Many female airline pilots too although not sure of the percentage.
I don't believe that it is discrimination. I worked for one of the largest electric utilities in the United States. We went out of our way to open up opportunities for women as line persons, plant operators, heavy equipment operators, etc. We even offered them special training. Most of them quit, especially after children came along, because of shift work.
According to the BLS data cited above, women make up just 4.3% of airline pilots, but they account for 77.4% of flight attendants. They make up 43.4% of bus drivers. I suspect most of these are employed by local transit agencies, which means that they can be home with their families every day. Women make up 6.7% of industrial and truck operators and 4.8% of drivers/sales and truck drivers. I believe the latter category includes over the road, long haul truck drivers.
Overall women make-up 14.9% of the Transportation and material moving occupations. They make up 22.1% of the supervisors in this category, which suggests that they are not the victims of discrimination.
It's not discrimination, it's just not appealing to most I guess. Besides, lawsuits cost companies lots of time and money. I have not ran across many ladies who have given this lifestyle a second thought. We only have a few on our district.
NS has recently had 2 women working the Pittsburgh East Dispatcher's desk, which includes Altoona, Horseshoe Curve, and Johnstown - Hannah and Jennifer.
- Paul North.
Probably not discrimination although women often have to make the choice between having a career OR having a family, thus the preference for jobs and careers that provide regular hours and time at home. That's especially true if the marriage goes kaput and the women is single with kids...
We have a number of women working as Road Conductors as well as several that have been promoted to Engineer.
The working environment for a woman in railroading is daunting, even when you dismiss the personal issues in dealing with men, Middle of the night, middle of nowhere and you have a brakeman's lantern to walk almost 4 miles of train (9000 feet out and back) on main track ballast to resolve a mechanical issue - secure a brake beam, change a air hose, change a knuckle etc. etc. etc. It takes a dedicated individual - male or female - to do this day in and day out. Throw in being on call around the clock and many if not most women don't want it.
It's not discrimination - it's just most women don't view railroad field level jobs as something they want to do.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I don't think the job itself, as daunting and demanding as it is, is the real reason. Walking four miles with a lantern in sub zero temperatures..I know women who can do that.. but throw in family obligations that are normally a women's responsibility and you've gone from hard to pretty near impossible.
It was probably easier to attract women 'back in the day' (1960's to 1980's) of 4 or 5-person "full crews" and when the engineer craft was more more rigidly separated from the conductors and trainmen. They could then count on mostly staying on the locomotive, and not having to walk the train or do some of the heavy lifting or field repairs by themselves, etc. - the conductor and trainmen would do that instead. Even if women hired out into those trainmen crafts, there would usually be another person around to help out or at least 'cover their back'. (But see the several articles in Trains about 10 years ago by Linda Grant Nieman. [sp?])
Probably harder now that several railroads - such as NS - essentially require that a new hire be a conductor for a few years before any chance of being promoted to engineer, and expect to do those kinds of tasks.
As a result of the factors listed above by myseklf and others, I expect that there are many more women (as a percentage of the workforce) working for Amtrak, commuter agencies, regional railroads and shortlines, switching and terminal roads, industrial and intraplant railroads, etc., than the 7 Class 1 freight railroads (BNSF, CN, CP, CSX, KCS, NS, and UP).
Paul_D_North_Jr It was probably easier to attract women 'back in the day' (1960's to 1980's) of 4 or 5-person "full crews" and when the engineer craft was more more rigidly separated from the conductors and trainmen. They could then count on mostly staying on the locomotive, and not having to walk the train or do some of the heavy lifting or field repairs by themselves, etc. - the conductor and trainmen would do that instead. Even if women hired out into those trainmen crafts, there would usually be another person around to help out or at least 'cover their back'. (But see the several articles in Trains about 10 years ago by Linda Grant Nieman. [sp?]) Probably harder now that several railroads - such as NS - essentially require that a new hire be a conductor for a few years before any chance of being promoted to engineer, and expect to do those kinds of tasks. As a result of the factors listed above by myself and others, I expect that there are many more women (as a percentage of the workforce) working for Amtrak, commuter agencies, regional railroads and shortlines, switching and terminal roads, industrial and intraplant railroads, etc., than the 7 Class 1 freight railroads (BNSF, CN, CP, CSX, KCS, NS, and UP). - Paul North.
As a result of the factors listed above by myself and others, I expect that there are many more women (as a percentage of the workforce) working for Amtrak, commuter agencies, regional railroads and shortlines, switching and terminal roads, industrial and intraplant railroads, etc., than the 7 Class 1 freight railroads (BNSF, CN, CP, CSX, KCS, NS, and UP).
A snip from some of the figures posted by Sam 1:
"... I suspect most of these are employed by local transit agencies, which means amongst other things that they can be home with their families every day. Women make up 6.7% of industrial and truck operators and 4.8% of drivers/sales and truck drivers. I believe the latter category includes over the road, long haul truck drivers.
Overall women make-up 14.9% of the Transportation and martial moving occupations. Interesting, they make up 22.1% of the supervisors in this category, which seems to suggest that they are not the victims of discrimination..."
Followed by a succinct analysis by BaltACD:
"...We have a number of women working as Road Conductors as well as several that have been promoted to Engineer.
It's not discrimination - it's just most women don't view railroad field level jobs as something they want to do..."
The 24/7/365 work environment takes a very dedicated personality type. Being able to deal with the idiosyncracratic nature of the people that work in that kind of environment; is telling on the human psyche. Each person has to measure their own gains, and losses by the job and then preform that balancing act to get the job done. It is a physically and mentally harsh environment to work in,
I was fortunate to work most of my working career in the Trucking industry. The last few years in administrative functions. Working with Truckers is the equivalent of trying to herd cats. They are independent, free thinkers, who balk at administrative functions related to driving, all is lost if you get them mad at you for them to perceive that they are being 'lied to' for any reason.Usually, they will react explosively, and that at least costs the employer money and time by abandoning a load enroute, missing a delivery, well you get the picture.
The one thing that my employer found that made things go smoothly were women dispatchers. They got the job done with minimum reactions; their fleets managed to their goals, and generally, had willing drivers who would do their jobs without the back lashes given to the male dispatchers.
There are some ladies who post around here, and hold various jobs in railroad field and office positions?????
I'd agree with that...I work in trucking also, and having a good gender mix makes for a better workplace I find. Employers are realizing that customizing the job to the person where ever possible also helps..i.e. someone with a young family is more likely to need stable hours and more home time than a single person with no family responsibilities. As for the job itself, we specialize in steel, and I find there's no difference in the capability of men and women, at least none that could be attributed to gender. We treat them the same...the women aren't coddled and perform as well as the men do and are paid equally.
It would be nice to have a woman's perspective on the subject.
I know women who have positions in train service and as dispatchers.Just ask Janet at the IE desk in Indianapolis.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Would you say the physical demands in the trucking industry are equal to the demands in the railroading industry? I know that truckers have to put on chains in wintery conditions. How might that or having to change a blown tire equate to having to replace a knuckle coupler?
There is a world of difference between office environment jobs and field jobs. Despite the shift work hours of railroad office environment jobs, there are many women pursuing careers in these type jobs. There are far fewer women pursuing careers in Train & Engine service, Car Department, Signal Department and all the other 'outdoor' crafts.
While shift work makes demands upon a woman's 'family time'; the relatively regular schedules of office type jobs makes such jobs manageable to meld into a family schedule. The total on call nature of Train & Engine service makes these positions less amenable to having a active and meaningful family life.
I agree with BaltACD. Field jobs without set schedules are not attractive to most women. Most women who work for the rail industry can be found in the office with set schedules offering a more dependable lifestyle. And not trying to sound politically incorrect but also because the office environment is a heck of a lot cleaner than filthy, dirty and grungy locomotives and freight cars!
At least three women on this forum are involved with railroad operations - one is a conductor, one is (I believe) training as an engineer, and another used to drive the cab, and is now doing administrative work for a railroad.
On our tourist line, I was trained by a female conductor, and we've had several female engineers, conductors, and trainmen.
CSX has at least one female dispatcher at Selkirk, and the head dispatcher for GVT is a woman.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
.....I can hear a female dispatcher here in Muncie, on my hand held scanner, and believe she is located in New Castle, In. Norfolk Southern. {At least I hear her say.."New Castle District"}.
Quentin
Half of our dispatchers are women.
Ulrich Probably not discrimination although women often have to make the choice between having a career OR having a family, thus the preference for jobs and careers that provide regular hours and time at home. That's especially true if the marriage goes kaput and the women is single with kids...
Its definitly not descrimination. If anything about now a days compineis get pushed into hireing women and minorites, but BIG RAILROAD very rarely gets picked on by people in big busness hating(excluding muckrakers and Rossevelt of the early 1900), even though they turn huge profits. Political veiws aside though, I just think Girls aren't interested. I don't think they even think about, most people think Trains are toys now a days, but thats my personal opinion.
"Mess with the best, die like the rest" -U.S. Marine Corp
MINRail (Minessota Rail Transportaion Corp.) - "If they got rid of the weeds what would hold the rails down?"
And yes I am 17.
gabeusmc Its definitly not descrimination. If anything about now a days compineis get pushed into hireing women and minorites, but BIG RAILROAD very rarely gets picked on by people in big busness hating(excluding muckrakers and Rossevelt of the early 1900), even though they turn huge profits. Political veiws aside though, I just think Girls aren't interested. I don't think they even think about, most people think Trains are toys now a days, but thats my personal opinion.
Railroads are always being attacked by watchdog groups (sometimes rightfully so).
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann gabeusmc: Its definitly not descrimination. If anything about now a days compineis get pushed into hireing women and minorites, but BIG RAILROAD very rarely gets picked on by people in big busness hating(excluding muckrakers and Rossevelt of the early 1900), even though they turn huge profits. Political veiws aside though, I just think Girls aren't interested. I don't think they even think about, most people think Trains are toys now a days, but thats my personal opinion. Railroads are always being attacked by watchdog groups (sometimes rightfully so).
gabeusmc: Its definitly not descrimination. If anything about now a days compineis get pushed into hireing women and minorites, but BIG RAILROAD very rarely gets picked on by people in big busness hating(excluding muckrakers and Rossevelt of the early 1900), even though they turn huge profits. Political veiws aside though, I just think Girls aren't interested. I don't think they even think about, most people think Trains are toys now a days, but thats my personal opinion.
Yah but i mean publicly. You see news stories attaking BIG DRUG and BIG BANk alot, but not BIG RAILROAD
Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad.
Murray Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad.
Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"!
RRKen Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"!
Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad.
What if they were embittered?
Murray RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered?
RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"!
They still would not be appealing!
RRKen Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered? They still would not be appealing!
Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered?
Even if they were off lurking somewhere else???
Murray RRKen: Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered? They still would not be appealing! Even if they were off lurking somewhere else???
RRKen: Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered? They still would not be appealing!
Lurking in Minnesota????????
RRKen Murray: RRKen: Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered? They still would not be appealing! Even if they were off lurking somewhere else??? Lurking in Minnesota????????
Murray: RRKen: Murray: RRKen: Murray: Lots of women named Karen working for the railroad. Yes, but not all of them have a "secret package"! What if they were embittered? They still would not be appealing! Even if they were off lurking somewhere else???
Embittered lurking.....
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.