Kerry Campaign Train In Lawrence KS. Who Goofed?

[Anonymous]

Ladies,Gentlemen, Railroaders, Railfans, Republicans, Democrats, Independants, Americans: Discuss the humor of the campaign if you will, the commonality of attitudes (or Lack of) of the parties, or even the way their (the candidates) have their hair cut. But do not lapse into incivility or rancor.As it is said in the hills of North Georgia; "Remember that political discusion is best held quietly and with gentlity if the listeners mind is to be changed to your persuasion. [2c]

[UPTRAIN]

Good [2c] piouslion.

[garr]

Wayne,

Just read your profile---welcome back to the hobby.

Question from your 20:10 post. Is a person interjecting his/her opinion in the mentioned places if one places a bumper sticker for his/her favorite politician on his/her car and drives it to the church, city hall, grocery store, or library?

After seeing that mother of all bumper(or loco) stickers on the Amtrak loco leading the campaign train, I believe normal bumper stickers are passe.

Jay

[UPTRAIN]

I still wonder it Teresa Heinz Kerry has a clue what a train is, she didn't know what CORN was. Boy, this airplane is flying low. This is a long bus!!!

[jeffhergert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....I just heard part of the story today on radio....and something that the train was about 4 hrs. late and arrived after midnight at that location and then only did a slow pass through there, etc....I don't know why it didn't stop if there were people waiting there but one thing I do know....Rush Limbaugh was milking it to no end today and playing it for all it was worth....One would think [by hearing his almost panic criticism on it], that he had complete control of it.......I have not heard why the decision to roll through the previous planned stop was not honored. Sounds like someone really goofed.

First to get the my politics out of the way, (R) no matter who wins, we all lose in the long run. Now for the not stopping part.
Last spring during a campaign trip thru Iowa, my wife went to Boone to a event where Kerry was supposed to appear. He made his scheduled appearance at Ames, but for some reason, I think he was running late, he skipped the Boone stop. Sent his brother instead. So if the train was running late Kerry's handlers may have decided Lawrence wasn't worth stopping for. Now, running thru Lawrence turns out to have been a mistake so we need a scapegoat. I'm sure everyone involved with the train would know where the stops were scheduled. I doubt a conductor could run a stop on his own. Someone told them to keep going. Probably turn out to be a "misunderstanding" between the campaign staff and the railroad.

[Mookie]

It's the railroads fault! Just like the 3985 getting into Fremont early! (Yes I am still miffed about it!)

They were probably late and had to make up time, forgetting they were on a whistle stop tour! See, no politics involved, just good old-fashioned railroading at it's best!

Mookie

[Anonymous]

Didn't Edwards backtrack to some of the missed stops. yesterday??? Thought i heard that on Fox.
And you know the conductor is in charge of the train, no matter who is on it.

[Modelcar]

...And on another railfan opinion....still not knowing about the facts of why the train was not permitted to stop....Understand it was running up to 4 hr. late and don't we continuously hear of lines being filled up to capacity...so I suppose there was possibly not "room" to have it come down from road speed and make a stop with speeches, etc....without clogging the time schedule of traffic behind it...hence, ordered to eliminate one stop to open back up a "window" for it to operate in....

[Mookie]

See! Perfectly logical explanation! No politics involved!

Thanks Modelcar!

Jen

[AntonioFP45]

Re: The train

Was it a single or double header? How many cars? What type? I'm assuming by some of the responses that there's an observation car on the tail. What's the history on it?

I'm actually dissappointed that the train is Amtrak. Some of you might remember that back in 1992, George H.W Bush was doing a "train run" (pictures in TRAINS MAGAZINE) with a sharp looking CSX unit in the lead. I was hoping that one of these candidates would charter a train made up of the old streamliner cars. They're a lot more attention getting than "Amfleet" cars. CSX's and UPs "officers specials" trains look very sharp! Guess using Amtrak equipment was more practical and readily available.

I'm more conservative, but what aggravates me is that neither candidate has shown any commitment to improve passenger rail travel. Inspite of the critics, demand is rising!

[Anonymous]

Correct me if i am wrong but is not the ex governer of Montana on the board of UP?

[vsmith]

Well since everyone here INSISTS on their right to be bashing Kerry ...I'm gonna throw in my two cent worth and ba***he knucklehead we currently call the Commander in Chief, (or Thief)

[banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead]

Whatta bout' Dubya's campaign stops being TICKET ONLY, and they are only giving tickets to die-hard supporters. I saw the tape, the questions being asked were not even questions! Soft marshemellow "We support you Mr President" type of fluff.

[%-)][%-)][%-)][%-)][%-)]

What are they affraid of? That someone might actually ask a HARD question? I think so, they dont want to see Dubya's start hacking up a pretzel trying to wriggle out of a tough question like, "Dude where'd my job go?" (Those national employment numbers released on Friday musta stung a bit) or "Why is Osama still running around, anything to do with your father's business connections to his family?" or "If America is safer because Uncle Saddam is in custody, why are in immenant danger of another attack from Al Quida?" This guy cant HACK the tough questions or dealing with the public in an open manner, his lackies are shielding him so he doesnt goof up an answer on national TV.

[D)][D)][D)][D)][D)]

Kerry has been jeered at his stops, but the republicans ar not even allowing the curious to enter Dubya's speeches, I can image the Repub outrage if Kerry said "Only Democrats will be allowed into our campaign speeches" So why is Dubya allowed to behave this way?

[|(][|(][|(][|(][|(]

PS I'm hoping if we make this a full out flame-fest then it will get Nuked and we can get back to talking about TRAINS !

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]


PSPS Kerry's campaign train made an unscheduled stop for a small group of supporters in New Mexico who simply held up a sign that said "Please Stop and Listen, Give us 4 minutes and we'll give you 4 years" Kerry ordered the train to stop and talk to them...

Would Dubya do that? would his handlers allow him too?

[:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)]

"Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!" Beavis.... "Uh What!..." Butthead, from somewhere in the Bush campaign HQ...
[:p][:)][:D][;)][:I][8)][xx(][8][B)][:0][:X][dinner][C):-)][4:-)][2c][(-D][{(-_-)}][banghead][X-)][bow]

[vsmith]

Burn Baby Burn![:-,][(-D][:-,][(-D][:-,][(-D][(-D][:-,]

[dharmon]

So what is the consist of the Kerry train?

[vsmith]

It looked like Metroliner coaches, that would make sense for a cross country multi state tour, no worries about clearences like with the Superliner cars, but I havent seen enough video for the engines (Genesis?) or how many cars total.

Anyone seen the whole enchillada?

[dharmon]

Maybe they'll swing by Britt, Iowa on the way and pick up a few riders on their way to the hi-tech hobo convention......hehehe ......they can show them the manifesto...hehehe.........[;)][:D]



........by the way, I'm not making a political statement...........

[vsmith]

Dan,

Actually niether am I... you dont want to see what I'd write if I was...[:O]

I'm just heating up the needle if Mr Uptrain wants to keep on bashing Kerry instead of Kerry's train...[(-D]

I thought this was supposed to be about who screwed up the scheduled stop and did it have anything to do with UP's overall screwed up condition. [|(]

LOL, I'm just having some sport....[}:)]

I'm really quite an Angel [angel]

[UPTRAIN]

3 Genesis, I posted a link for photos on the "despite politcial affiliation this is still cool" topic. Some amfleets and some Rail Cruise America private cars. The lead unit was all covered up in a Kerry Edwards decal and looked worse than before. The rear car was built in 1914 if I'm correct. It was a heavyweight observation car.

Zach Pumphery (R)-MO

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

3 Genesis, I posted a link for photos on the "despite politcial affiliation this is still cool" topic. Some amfleets and some Rail Cruise America private cars. The lead unit was all covered up in a Kerry Edwards decal and looked worse than before. The rear car was built in 1914 if I'm correct. It was a heavyweight observation car.

Zach Pumphery (R)-MO

Thanks Zach,

I only saw the pic with the observaton car, not the rest of the train. Maybe I was doing it wrong.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

3 Genesis, I posted a link for photos on the "despite politcial affiliation this is still cool" topic. Some amfleets and some Rail Cruise America private cars. The lead unit was all covered up in a Kerry Edwards decal and looked worse than before. The rear car was built in 1914 if I'm correct. It was a heavyweight observation car.

Zach Pumphery (R)-MO

Zach, just playing a little hardball with ya.[;)][8D]

I remember hearing on the news that this was the same private observation car used by Harry Truman. In the days before Air Force 1, the Prez would travel by private rail car hooked up to the back of a regular scheduled train. Imagine trying that today with Amtrack!

"Oh, were sorry Mr President, but this train doesnt stop anywhere outside of Houston, You'll have to catch an Amtrack Bus to the Ranch..., and we'd be on time but UP has 3 frieghts on a siding ahead of us, and a derailed train behind us, so we'll be a few hours late...Enjoy the trip!"[:0][:D][8D][:p]

[espeefoamer]

Before this goes any furthur, go back and read my original question. That's all I needed to know.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

3 Genesis, I posted a link for photos on the "despite politcial affiliation this is still cool" topic. Some amfleets and some Rail Cruise America private cars. The lead unit was all covered up in a Kerry Edwards decal and looked worse than before. The rear car was built in 1914 if I'm correct. It was a heavyweight observation car.

Zach Pumphery (R)-MO

Thanks Zach,

I only saw the pic with the observaton car, not the rest of the train. Maybe I was doing it wrong.

Zach, I was looking at the wrong post in that thread. Now I found what you're talking about. - Dan

[vsmith]

Yeah, a big blue Genesis triple header with what looks like a rather motley assortment of older streamline cars and newer Amfleet cars. Theres even a dome car!

I disagree with those who say the "advertising" on the loco looks bad, come on guys that could have been a garish color mash of badly overdone patriotic laden images, instead its far more tastefully done, just simple letters. I'm sure more that a few people that that slogan was the name of the railroad...LOL...[:o)]

[dehusman]

The schedule for these trains is worked out months in advance for these trains. They are not spur of the moment. Lots of times a community hears a or there is a stop in their community and there isn't.
If a stop is run, it is on the direction of the campaign staff, based on what their downline committments are. A railroad doesn't just arbitrarily cancel the stops and an engineer or conductor just doesn't forget to stop.
If Kerry was running 4 hours late he might have canceled several stops to try and get back on schedule.
Why ask railfans? Ask the Kerry campaign.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

So many republicans on this forum, sad. Muddy's right, it would be nice if we could keep our political opinions aside -first, because it's not important, and second - because it reminds me of the unfortunate fact that so many in the railroad world tend to right-wingers. And right wingers tend to be self-involved, greedy, stingy, unsympathetic, and governed by fear and stubbornness. And that's sad, because I'd like to think of railroad folk as a bit wiser than that.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone

So many republicans on this forum, sad. Muddy's right, it would be nice if we could keep our political opinions aside -first, because it's not important, and second - because it reminds me of the unfortunate fact that so many in the railroad world tend to right-wingers. And right wingers tend to be self-involved, greedy, stingy, unsympathetic, and governed by fear and stubbornness. And that's sad, because I'd like to think of railroad folk as a bit wiser than that.

I am confused - you say it would be nice if we could keep our political opinions aside - then you go on a bash Republicans and right-wingers. You probably have an intense dislike for cats, too. Hmm?

Democat Mookie

[Overmod]

I can't let this go without comment.

vsmith alleges that "Kerry's campaign train made an unscheduled stop for a small group of supporters in New Mexico who simply held up a sign that said "Please Stop and Listen, Give us 4 minutes and we'll give you 4 years." Awww... aside from the smarmy sound of the thing, I've got a real clear idea how the logistics of such a stop would work. Kerry sees the sign... how fast is the train moving? He tells his boys 'stop the train'... by the time it gets stopped, it's *where* on the main line? And then backs up all the way to where the people are?

This sounds like a prefab campaign moment, and too much use of it smacks of propaganda. But...

This from the same trip, by the same guy, who blows off 150+ (their number) of people in a major academic town? Supposedly because 'the train was late'?

I remember Presidential-candidate Carter stopping to talk to me in Trenton Station about Amtrak. His train (Metroliner equipment IIRC) was late... and it got later. But he was interested, and didn't give excuses. THAT is a better example of how it should be done...

[dehusman]

These trains don't operate in a vaccuum. Wanna bet some of those people at that little town had cell phones? They call the local party, who calls the national who calls the people on the train and an unscheduled stop is created.

Dave H.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by joeyalone

So many republicans on this forum, sad. Muddy's right, it would be nice if we could keep our political opinions aside -first, because it's not important, and second - because it reminds me of the unfortunate fact that so many in the railroad world tend to right-wingers. And right wingers tend to be self-involved, greedy, stingy, unsympathetic, and governed by fear and stubbornness. And that's sad, because I'd like to think of railroad folk as a bit wiser than that.

I am confused - you say it would be nice if we could keep our political opinions aside - then you go on a bash Republicans and right-wingers. You probably have an intense dislike for cats, too. Hmm?

Democat Mookie

Me too...cause I'm a consevative far to the right of that liberal pinko Gengis Khan and I dislike cats............[;)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

I can't let this go without comment.

vsmith alleges that "Kerry's campaign train made an unscheduled stop for a small group of supporters in New Mexico who simply held up a sign that said "Please Stop and Listen, Give us 4 minutes and we'll give you 4 years." Awww... aside from the smarmy sound of the thing, I've got a real clear idea how the logistics of such a stop would work. Kerry sees the sign... how fast is the train moving? He tells his boys 'stop the train'... by the time it gets stopped, it's *where* on the main line? And then backs up all the way to where the people are?

This sounds like a prefab campaign moment, and too much use of it smacks of propaganda. But...

This from the same trip, by the same guy, who blows off 150+ (their number) of people in a major academic town? Supposedly because 'the train was late'?

I remember Presidential-candidate Carter stopping to talk to me in Trenton Station about Amtrak. His train (Metroliner equipment IIRC) was late... and it got later. But he was interested, and didn't give excuses. THAT is a better example of how it should be done...

This was during a very slow roll thru a town on the railline, so stopping the train for a few minutes wouldnt have been too hard, I suspect the reality for the unscheduled stop in New Mexico was that they wanted to try and make up for the Lawrence Kansas stop PR screw up. John Edwards took a bus trip back to Lawrence to try and make up for the brush off there...Oh Boy the logistics of a tour like this must be HELL!

Oh and BTW its ALL propaganda! Both sides 24/7, you should know that by now...[;)]