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The Trackside Lounge--Fourth quarter, 2011

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:50 PM

We try to use hand signals where possible for our run-arounds, etc.  Frustrates the dickens out of the folks who like to hear themselves talk on the radio...

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:40 PM

I can only imagine how complicated the air waves got (and get) at times down there Carl. 

Up here, in the land of CN...someone complained at Neenah about crowded airwaves...with three crews in the yard!  There are still a few "old heads" that use bell/whistle/hand signals at times.  Saw one such crew today, in fact...they were faster than the guys on the radio.

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:29 PM

CShaveRR

Proviso had nine of them by the time I left, so there's the "busy area".

Each switch has an assigned number, so to throw it you needed to tone four digits.  A different code will just inform you as to the position of the switch. Or switches...some of these switches, at crossovers, are tied together.  Presence-detection circuits prevent throwing a switch underneath a locomotive or car, and the switch will let you know if it can't throw for whatever reason (e.g., ice or rocks in the point) and advise you to stop and inspect the points.

The biggest complaint I heard about them was the increase in radio traffic that they caused.


Now, another improvement would be automatic coupling and uncoupling, using existing couplers and air hoses.Smile

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:28 PM

CShaveRR

Proviso had nine of them by the time I left, so there's the "busy area".

Each switch has an assigned number, so to throw it you needed to tone four digits.  A different code will just inform you as to the position of the switch. Or switches...some of these switches, at crossovers, are tied together.  Presence-detection circuits prevent throwing a switch underneath a locomotive or car, and the switch will let you know if it can't throw for whatever reason (e.g., ice or rocks in the point) and advise you to stop and inspect the points.

The biggest complaint I heard about them was the increase in radio traffic that they caused.


Now, another improvement would be automatic coupling and uncoupling, using existing couplers and air hoses.Smile

Johnny

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:23 AM

zugmann

 mudchicken:
VMAX=e((Ea + 3)/ 0.0007D)= SQRT((Crosslevel Elevation)+ Unbalance)                                                               0.0007 D
Hope Bill Gates has friends in Witness ProtectionSuper Angry

 

 Zugs: trying to begin to answer the rationale to the curve/speed thing, but can't get past trying to figure out why competing software butchers the results when you try to cut and paste....didn't even get to the wonky part of looking at the 3" unbalance assumption used by passenger trains vs the 1.75-2 inch used for freight trains....Sigh

umm... is the answer 1-800-Hulchers?

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:17 AM

They are generally hydraulic switches and are using "garage door opener" technology pioneered by  Charlie Barenfanger on the Vandalia RR (part of old IC original land grant rr) to control crossing protection. (ATSF used the same thing to control a private crossing for UPS at Hobart Tower in LA).

The BNSF Boise City Sub (Las Animas to Amarillo portion ) has several of the tone controlled switches whose operating instructions also apppear in the employee timetable.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:56 AM

Great; thanks again to you all!!

Make it a great week!!

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:50 AM

Proviso had nine of them by the time I left, so there's the "busy area".

Each switch has an assigned number, so to throw it you needed to tone four digits.  A different code will just inform you as to the position of the switch. Or switches...some of these switches, at crossovers, are tied together.  Presence-detection circuits prevent throwing a switch underneath a locomotive or car, and the switch will let you know if it can't throw for whatever reason (e.g., ice or rocks in the point) and advise you to stop and inspect the points.

The biggest complaint I heard about them was the increase in radio traffic that they caused.


Carl

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:57 PM

I know the WSOR uses a couple around Horicon and on some of their branchlines.  It saves a crew a little time when switching.  I know BNSF, CN, CP have a couple around in WI. 

I can think that the usage may be limited as anyone in range can "accidentally" tone the switch so in a busy area it may not be advisable.  There are probably a few specific instances where they're very useful which someone who has more insight than I can share.

I recall the first time I heard one 'talking' over my scanner...I was confused thinking I misheard a detector...then I realized what I did hear.  Kinda neat IMO.

Dan

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:04 PM

Oh OK, great; thanks!

Are they in fairly widespread use or limited? Are they growing in popularity or their use is limited by _____? Thanks again.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:53 PM

They exist and are in use.  I don't have any on my territory, but from what others that do tell me, you use the radio to "tone" the switch and it throws (And announces whether it is normal or diverging over the radio). 

 

Same technology is also employed on some drawbridges.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:51 PM

OK, so with all the advancements in technology, I find it quite surprising that they have not yet come up with switches that can be thrown from inside the loco.

I can see there might (probably would?) be a cost issue, yet possibly somewhat offset by some other factors. Security would also need to be considered, as we don't want the local hoodlums tampering with them.

Does anyone know of any attempts at this? Are they in the works? Thanks!

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, December 1, 2011 6:43 PM

That is the law here in Illinois as well.  It could be better enforced than it is.  Quite often we have people starting across as soon as the gates start to go up.  Actually, that's not unsafe...if another train were coming the gates would drop again and give 20 or so seconds' worth of protection.  But it is the law.  I'm not sure if respect for railroads will ever be successfully legislated.

Carl

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, December 1, 2011 6:06 PM

....I've watched the Netherland's cam now for several years and the auto drivers pay strict attention to those crossing gates.  Trains fly thru there and occasionally, one going each way.

Pedestrians, and bike riders do the same....Strictly.

Quentin

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Posted by The Butler on Thursday, December 1, 2011 5:17 PM

zugmann

First, check out this crossing video from the Netherlands.  You only have to watch the first 10 seconds or so:

 

http://youtu.be/LRmV9V1EKt0

 

 

 

Is it just me, or does it sound awfully familiar?


http://youtu.be/gqg3l3r_DRI

 

I think it's kind of cool....

I caught the connection as soon as I saw "Sabre Dance."  I have enjoyed that piece of music since I was a kid living in Buffalo, NY.  The Buffalo Sabers hockey team used it in their commercials. 

I watched the whole train video.  Did any one else notice the drivers did not proceed until the gates were fully up and the lights stopped flashing? Surprise

James


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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, December 1, 2011 5:06 PM

zugmann

First, check out this crossing video from the Netherlands.  You only have to watch the first 10 seconds or so:

 

http://youtu.be/LRmV9V1EKt0

 

 

 

Is it just me, or does it sound awfully familiar?


http://youtu.be/gqg3l3r_DRI

 

I think it's kind of cool....

This is a strange one....Don't know if I should even comment, but what the heck....

I listened to both:  If I have to make a comparison to the two sounds....I'd say this:  if I try hard, I see..{hear}, a similarity to the "beat" of the sounds....Or I might say the: "Timing".

Quentin

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, December 1, 2011 4:35 PM

mudchicken
VMAX=e((Ea + 3)/ 0.0007D)= SQRT((Crosslevel Elevation)+ Unbalance)                                                               0.0007 D
Hope Bill Gates has friends in Witness ProtectionSuper Angry

 

umm... is the answer 1-800-Hulchers?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, December 1, 2011 4:13 PM

VMAX=e((Ea + 3)/ 0.0007D)= SQRT((Crosslevel Elevation)+ Unbalance)                                                               0.0007 D

Hope Bill Gates has friends in Witness ProtectionSuper Angry

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by AgentKid on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:33 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr

Don't know that I'd of made the connection without the hint - but you've either got a good ear for sound patterns, you listen to certain music too much, or "You need to get a life" . . . Smile, Wink & Grin 

You do that often ?  Ever with US railroad sounds ?  What similarities might you hear in a GE loco's burbling ?  The clatter of wheels over rail joints ?  Did you ever play the drums or study percussion instruments in school ? 

Little Richard said the sound of the snare drum all the way through his song Lucille is the sound L&N steam engines made running past his family's farm at 40 mph. Z isn't the only one with a good ear.

Bruce

 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:19 PM

Paul_D_North_Jr
 

Don't know that I'd of made the connection without the hint - but you've either got a good ear for sound patterns, you listen to certain music too much, or "You need to get a life" . . . Smile, Wink & Grin 

You do that often ?  Ever with US railroad sounds ?  What similarities might you hear in a GE loco's burbling ?  The clatter of wheels over rail joints ?  Did you ever play the drums or study percussion instruments in school ? 

- Paul North. 

 

Good ear?  Don't know.

Listen to certain types of music too much?  Yep.  I listen to just about anything and everything.

I need a life?  Hell yeah.

 I don't really notice too many similarities with the work I do.  And I couldn't carry a tune with a gondola and a SD40-2, so I never played an instrument.   Although I would like to learn a little guitar.. on the bucket list, I guess.

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 8:06 PM

You know, when I was watching the first one, I kinda thought the crossing bell and alternating flashing lights were a little fast-paced by US standards . . . but I couldn't figure out what you wanted us to notice, other than maybe no horn from the train (Dutch version of a "Quiet Zone" crossing ?) . . .

But then about 10 seconds into the second one I could hear the similar pattern right away ! 

Don't know that I'd of made the connection without the hint - but you've either got a good ear for sound patterns, you listen to certain music too much, or "You need to get a life" . . . Smile, Wink & Grin 

You do that often ?  Ever with US railroad sounds ?  What similarities might you hear in a GE loco's burbling ?  The clatter of wheels over rail joints ?  Did you ever play the drums or study percussion instruments in school ? 

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:20 PM

First, check out this crossing video from the Netherlands.  You only have to watch the first 10 seconds or so:

 

http://youtu.be/LRmV9V1EKt0

 

 

 

Is it just me, or does it sound awfully familiar?


http://youtu.be/gqg3l3r_DRI

 

I think it's kind of cool....

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, November 28, 2011 6:48 PM

Nance, draw a line somewhere...not a straight line, something with even gentle curves.  Now take a piece of string, and, while holding one end of the string, try and trace the line and see whether the entire string follows the line.  It will probably straighten out and attempt to cut off some of the curves.  That would happen to a train, too, save for the flanges holding it to the course of the track.  And sometimes the forces can overcome that little bit of flange, particularly when the cars on the curve are lighter than on the ends, or something is holding back one end when the other's trying to move.

Carl

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, November 28, 2011 5:55 PM

Hey Carl, on that derailmaent post for NS near Horseshoe Curve you wrote:

"Rumor says stringlining was the culprit; no pushers."

Will you pls explain that term, as it is new to me. Thanks! Huh?Dunce

(I'm asking here, as I hope I'm not the only Lounge reader-not necessarily poster--who does not know!!)

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by zardoz on Monday, November 28, 2011 4:15 PM

CShaveRR

I'm not faulting the company for attempting to weed out employees with drug use, criminal backgrounds, citizenship problems, and a basic grasp of the stuff they should have learned by graduation.

Some of that sounds like what we used to call (back in more enlightened days) discrimination. Of course, these days that's ok to do that., as long as the group being discriminated against is not yours.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, November 28, 2011 10:47 AM

This came from Railway Track and Structures magazine.  It's good news for the old Michigan Central main line east of Kalamazoo, which Norfolk Southern has downgraded in spite of the fact that Amtrak uses it.

It's great to hear that the work will start this coming spring, but I honestly don't know when we'll see the line they're envisioning, with 110 mph from Porter to Dearborn, nice, new cars and locomotives, and good, safe track to ride on.  I want to be around for it...

Along these lines, has anyone heard more about whether the ATCS was placed in service from Kalamazoo all the way to Porter, Indiana, as planned this fall?  It was supposed to happen around the beginning of this month, but I've heard nothing.  Until this summer, it had been 95 mph from Kalamazoo to Niles only, but it was supposed to be extended to Porter and the speed increased (perhaps incrementally) to 110.


Michigan receives $150 million to expand HSR in Midwest               
Wednesday, November 23, 2011

The Federal Railroad Administration awarded $150 million to the Michigan Department of Transportation for a high-speed rail project that will increase the safety and reliability of Amtrak's Wolverine and Blue Water services between Detroit and Chicago and put more than 800 Americans back to work this spring.

The grant will enable MDOT to acquire ownership over much of the Chicago-Detroit/Pontiac High Speed Rail Corridor within the state of Michigan and pave the way for them to begin a track and signal improvement project between Detroit and Kalamazoo, Mich., in the spring of 2012. These improvements will allow for speeds up to 110 mph on 77 percent of Amtrak's Wolverine and Blue Water services between Detroit and Chicago, resulting in a 30 minute reduction in travel times between those destinations.

Previously announced FRA investments in the line include new continuously welded rail and ties, fiber optic lines and infrastructure to support a positive train control system, rebuilding 180 highway-rail grade crossings and gates and flashers at 65 private highway-rail grade crossings.
 


The corridor will also benefit from next-generation American-made trains, funded as part of a previously announced $782 million grant that will pump new life into domestic manufacturing. States will purchase 33 quick-acceleration locomotives and 120 bi-level passenger cars to operate in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, California, Washington and Oregon.


 

Carl again...another thing I'd like to see here would be a connection between the Amtrak line and CSX at New Buffalo.  It might not be worth it for just one round trip, but such a connection would give the Pere Marquettes access to the current Amtrak station at New Buffalo, and just a bit of high-speed running between there and Porter.  That's already Amtrak's railroad, so traffic density shouldn't be a problem.  The two lines cross at a grade separation just north of New Buffalo now.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:32 PM

The reader comments on the fox news site are just generic political tripe.  Plus 50,000 "kids today!" posts from old geezers that forget that they once were new and had no experience. 

On the other hand, the comments on the Wall St. Journal site are much more interesting and  thought-provoking (well, most of them):

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203707504577010080035955166.html

 

PS. I hope mudchicken chimes in on this...

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, November 27, 2011 10:05 PM

I think the "problem", if it's perceived as such, is in that "winnowing" process.  I'm not faulting the company for attempting to weed out employees with drug use, criminal backgrounds, citizenship problems, and a basic grasp of the stuff they should have learned by graduation.  I think the poor lady's expectations were too high, especially if those prospects got wind of something about the job that wasn't so great to a normal human being.  We railroaders are a breed apart, for sure!

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by Modelcar on Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:47 PM

....No question....Future and current employment requires education / skills to fill available jobs now and more so, in the future.

It certainly looks like our education system in our country has fallen behind many others in the free world.  Somehow, we must overcome that.

Hopefully, that will be corrected soon....

Quentin

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:35 PM

"Jobs go unfilled" (RR-related)

 

Unfortunately you can't see the whole story without having a WSJ subscription, but fox news has a good chunk of it on their site (otherwise I'd give it its own topic):

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/26/help-wanted-in-unexpected-twist-some-skilled-jobs-go-unfilled/

 

Thoughts?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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