CJtrainguyCollege students: run by the dorms on any given friday afternoon and watch the exodus for the weekend. Those students do not just stay put all semester long. As for how well it worked for the Rock Island's passenger trains, that is historical data. Passenger rail all across the US was dying in the 60's. Has no real bearing on what today's or tomorrow's traveling public will need. Back then car driving was increasing every year. Now it's going down. It's a different world.
As far as college students and transportation goes, check out UI in Urbaba on a Thursday or Friday; many students head back to the Chicago area by car, many by bus. Even in the 1960's as passenger rail declined, a lot of UI students (also EIU and SIU) took one of the IC's regularly scheduled trains north on Friday, and at break time, might have taken one of the student special consists of old heavyweight cars. Believe me, they were packed. If Amtrak ran more convenient trains (now they leave at 6:10 am, 10:14 am and 7:59 pm), they would be better patronized as well. Given the large number of Iowa City students from metro Chicago, the service would be used if the schedules were convenient for that market.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Anyone else chuckling at the irony of the Chicago boogie men not patronizing this proposed passenger train, preferring to use more flexible automobiles driving on subsidized roads instead?(Sorry man- the made me do it.)
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I'm guessing I'm included in the "out of state" category since I don't make any secret of the fact that I don't currently live in the great state of Iowa. Would love to move my business there some day. And access to passenger rail will have an impact on that decision. Maybe it will sway it and we'll land in Illinois…
I do see that there is widespread support in Eastern Iowa for passenger rail to Iowa City, including in the business community. The point is, they realize that the crowded I-80 isn't the end-all for transportation. Neither is Greyhound or Megabus. Flying in and out of Cedar Rapids is what it is. When I lived in Iowa City, I only went there to pick up or drop off somebody once or twice. Much more likely scenario was to drive to O'Hare to pick up or drop off. It's a regional airport after all
College students: run by the dorms on any given friday afternoon and watch the exodus for the weekend. Those students do not just stay put all semester long. As for how well it worked for the Rock Island's passenger trains, that is historical data. Passenger rail all across the US was dying in the 60's. Has no real bearing on what today's or tomorrow's traveling public will need. Back then car driving was increasing every year. Now it's going down. It's a different world.
Semper Vaporo We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade. Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood. Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade.
Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood.
Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
That logic has been used before. I know I've seen it used by at least some counties surrounding Chicago when it came time to expand commuter rail across a county border (and of course have the new county share in paying for it).
Just a couple of problems:
If the headlines already state that (almost) all criminals in Eastern Iowa come from Chicago, I don't think adding passenger rail will change anything about that. Apparently they already know how to get to Iowa's pristine corn fields. So if you want to solve that problem, not only turn down passenger rail, but cut all the bridges across the Mississippi for any kind of road traffic, cancel all flights from Chicago to Iowa and get the Iowa Coast Guard to patrol the river for folks trying to use speedboats to get across.
Second, the increase in meth labs in the Iowa countryside goes back at least to the farm crisis in the '80s. Back then when driving around Iowa, if there was any issue with the car, all you had to do was walk to the nearest farm house and the friendly inhabitants would help you. But lots of folks who used to live on farms don't any more, or work in town and as a result of population changes one now has a higher likelihood of running into either empty dwellings or ones occupied by folks to are involved in clandestine operations. That's not to say there aren't still friendly people in the Iowa countryside. Just that things have changed, as things have changed in rural areas all across the US in recent decades.
Now I do like the idea of light rail for the corridor Cedar Falls/Waterloo-Cedar Rapids-Iowa City. But that's a different thing than passenger rail on the Quad Cities-Iowa City-Des Moines-Omaha line. All very much needed. And in the current political climate in Iowa, not so likely to happen. If Gov. B and his folks don't want to pay (relatively) peanuts for passenger rail to Iowa City in the next 2 years, I don't see them wanting to pay much more (with no Federal funding) for light rail inside the state, especially if it doesn't include Des Moines.
Murphy Siding Semper Vaporo We are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade. Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood. Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west. I think I just had a flashback to the train scene in the The Music Man.
Now ya got it!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo Nearly every local newscast contains a line similar to: "Two men from Chicago were arrested in Eastern Iowa today for..." The number and genders of the arrestees varies on each newscast. The named locale varies from the biggest cities down to unincorporated rural areas. The charges range from Meth production in an apartment building, to robbing a liquor store/gas station/bank, to shooting up a neighborhood.
A tactic used by virtually every local news cast - we don't grow our own criminals, they come from the Big City (fill in the blank). Criminals, like manure are everywhere!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Semper VaporoWe are being asked to invest in quick transportation for hoodlums and meth addicts to come to Iowa to ply their trade.
I recall a presentation by FBI and DEA agents who indicated meth labs were more common in rural areas, run by locals. Isolation but with good Interstate access are key elements. But for folks with your attitude, maybe you can ban traffic from Illinois.
Semper Vaporo Personally, I think light rail between Waterloo, Cedar Rapids and Iowa City would be of more value to the residents of Iowa than interstate passenger rail to the east or west.
Sounds like bringing back the Waterloo, Cedar Falls and Northern merged with the Crandic...
schlimm Seige mentality. Hold on to whatever you have; don't invest because you fear change and the future..
Seige mentality. Hold on to whatever you have; don't invest because you fear change and the future..
You out-of-state crybabies need to listen to yourselves. $79 million to extend passenger rail 58 miles from Moline to Iowa City? Before the annual subsidy -- conservatively put at $3 million -- kicks in?
For the greater good of how many Iowa taxpayers?
Iowa City already has interstate, bus and (25 miles away) air. The Rocket wouldn't likely stop at any of the small communities between I.C. and Davenport. For Davenport-area residents, the train would be available just across the river.
Sure, a few people might dribble down to the station from Cedar Rapids, but otherwise?
People who see Chicago college students as a mainstay are kidding themselves. These are like other U of I students, going home at Christmas and spring break. Ask the old Rock Island railroad how well that fueled the original Rockets.
Would it be a creative solution if say the Iowa state legislator got California to pay for or they find out who is in favor of it and bill them for it. I guess Iowa's government waste account is empty.
Los Angeles Rams Guy If my home state of Iowa misses out on this opportunity to get passenger rail to Iowa City (and eventually Des Moines and Council Bluffs/Omaha) it will be an epic fail of monumental proportions and the blame will fall right into the lap of Governor Terry Branstad and the rest of the conservative cronies back home. It's an utter embarrassment that they can't find a creative solution to try and get this done.
If my home state of Iowa misses out on this opportunity to get passenger rail to Iowa City (and eventually Des Moines and Council Bluffs/Omaha) it will be an epic fail of monumental proportions and the blame will fall right into the lap of Governor Terry Branstad and the rest of the conservative cronies back home. It's an utter embarrassment that they can't find a creative solution to try and get this done.
Conservative and Creative - isn't the among the ultimate of oxymorons?
Sad news, but in light of the current climate in Des Moines, not surprising. Having traveled in all 100 counties in Iowa, I find the state has an interesting provincialism going.
In Eastern Iowa people understand the ties to Chicago. Plenty of students from Chicago land at the University of Iowa. Folks there see the benefit of connecting with Chicago. So in Eastern Iowa, there is a real desire to have better communications to Chicago.
Go over to Des Moines and the focus is on Des Moines. It's the capital after all. All roads in Iowa lead to Des Moines. Tends to lead to a view that if something doesn't benefit Des Moines and central Iowa, then it's not good for the state. So since Amtrak in Iowa was initially only going to Iowa City, then who needs it?
Go over to Council Bluffs on the western edge of the state and many people there would just as soon be part of Nebraska. After all, many of them work over there anyway.
Eventually there will be passenger trains rolling across Iowa again, Omaha (maybe Lincoln) to Chicago. It will happen. Just maybe not right now, due to local shortsightedness. In a few years, I-80 will be even more congested. And for the passenger trains to the Quad Cities to start making a difference in that area.
And leadership in Des Moines will change…
The Des Moines Register a while back, probably about the time Iowa had to decide to take the Federal funds or not, had a statement from Sen. McCoy about moving on. He knew that Iowa wasn't going to do anything for passenger rail.
It really isn't surprising when you think about it. They can't agree on how to adequately fund public highways or bridges, even when most seem to think they are necessary. There are some who don't want to pay for anything, even things they do use.
Jeff
Victrola1, thanks for your periodic updates on this subject. It will be interesting to see how long cash-strapped Illinois is able to sustain its end of this operation; also Chicago-Dubuque.
It looks like the Corn Belt Rocket will not reach the tall corn state.
This latest analysis not only pushes the overall cost up, but the state’s (Iowa’s) share would now be $72 million. That’s triple what the state projected its part of the cost would be three years ago.
That increase is in large part because of the diversion of $34 million in federal money from Iowa to Illinois to help pay the costs of the Chicago-to-Quad-Cities link, according to the Iowa DOT.
Now, even one of the chief legislative advocates says there’s no reason to keep pushing for the Iowa portion.
“Ultimately, as I view things, I think it’s an insurmountable lift for passenger rail,” said Sen. Matt McCoy, D-Des Moines. “It’s time to cut our losses and move on.”
http://thegazette.com/2013/12/19/iowa-rail-project-costs-balloon-lead-advocate-throws-in-towel/
This latest analysis not only pushes the overall cost up, but the state’s share would now be $72 million. That’s triple what the state projected its part of the cost would be three years ago.
jrbernier Anyone have figures for the startup cost and yearly operating costs? We seem to have lots of input here on why this route should go into operation, but as they say - 'Talk is cheap'. The current Powerball Lottery tonight is $216 million dollars($125 million cash out). Lets say after taxes that is about $78 million. If that was enough to fund this project, and if you were the winner - Would you invest you winnings in this train service?
Anyone have figures for the startup cost and yearly operating costs? We seem to have lots of input here on why this route should go into operation, but as they say - 'Talk is cheap'. The current Powerball Lottery tonight is $216 million dollars($125 million cash out). Lets say after taxes that is about $78 million. If that was enough to fund this project, and if you were the winner - Would you invest you winnings in this train service?
First off, if that 78 million landed in my pocket, I'd be happy to pay for getting passenger service extended from the Quad Cities to Iowa City. I always wanted a 1:1 scale train layout
For numbers, here are a few numbers and details about the Iowa City extension. The price tag appears to be about $33 million for upgrading the track to 79mph.
http://www.qcrail.com/Amtrak%20Feasibility%20Studies.htm
pdf feasibility study
Based on past Amtrak performance, I have not seen any profit in the operation of these state sponsored trains. I really like the concept of rail passenger, but the reality is that my $78 million may just be more sand down a rat hole.
In Minnesota, there has been some interest in 'high speed' rail between Rochester and the Twin Cities. The proponents cannot agree on the route, or if it should go to the MSP airport or Mpls or St Paul. Some want it to start at the RCH airport. In the meantime, we have two competing shuttle van companies providing direct service multiple times per day. They have been in business for several years, so they must be making money.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Have to disagree with DakotaFred as well. Remember, you're not just drawing from online communites such as Quad Cities, Iowa City, Grinnell and the like. You're also drawing from Clinton, Cedar Rapids, Anamosa/Monticello, and Marshalltown just to name a few.
Dakotafred: WIth all due respect, I think you have made up your mind that passenger rail in Iowa is a loser proposition. At least that's how you stated it earlier in this thread. So not sure what arguments will convince you that passenger rail across Iowa is a good idea and worth the investment.
As to Mr. Branstad, everything I've heard and read indicates the decision to block passenger rail was motivated by concerns other than what's in the best interest of the state of Iowa. Your opinion obviously differs.
As to the I-80 corridor, it is congested in places and well on its way in other. It's not going to handle much more traffic. Buses: if you refer to Megabus, they came on the scene quickly, are cherry picking their routes and will be gone the moment they don't feel they are making the profits they want. There is no investment in the community on their part. Planes: Des Moines to Chicago? Cedar Rapids to Chicago? Not really worth it, unless you are going someplace else from Chicago.
I do consider passenger rail across Iowa worth the investment and believe that once it's there, ridership will prove it, just like it has in many other corridors. For the sake of those who don't believe, I am all for an incremental approach: Quad Cities is coming soon. Iowa City next. Then Des Moines. Then Omaha. It will happen eventually. I'm fine with 79mph service to start with. Then upgrade incrementally to 110mph. Travel times will be competitive.
CJtrainguy dakotafred People who think Terry Branstad is a bum because he hasn't sprung for this loser should read the appreciation of his long stewardship as governor in The Economist magazine for Oct. 19-25. For the record, I don't think of Terry Branstad as a bum. I've met him many times and I lived in Iowa during his previous tenure in the Gov's Mansion and as I said before in this forum, he seemed a reasonable man. His decision to not pursue bringing passenger rail to Iowa though goes against bi-partisan and business community support for passenger rail certainly in Eastern Iowa (service to Iowa City) and also in Des Moines. It's hard to interpret his actions other than as a result certain political trends.
dakotafred People who think Terry Branstad is a bum because he hasn't sprung for this loser should read the appreciation of his long stewardship as governor in The Economist magazine for Oct. 19-25.
People who think Terry Branstad is a bum because he hasn't sprung for this loser should read the appreciation of his long stewardship as governor in The Economist magazine for Oct. 19-25.
For the record, I don't think of Terry Branstad as a bum. I've met him many times and I lived in Iowa during his previous tenure in the Gov's Mansion and as I said before in this forum, he seemed a reasonable man.
His decision to not pursue bringing passenger rail to Iowa though goes against bi-partisan and business community support for passenger rail certainly in Eastern Iowa (service to Iowa City) and also in Des Moines. It's hard to interpret his actions other than as a result certain political trends.
But CJ, what if his opposition to signing up for endless years of subsidies for passenger rail is also "reasonable" -- never mind "bipartisan and business community support" for state support of essentially local service?
Branstad is governor of the whole state, not just of Iowa City and Des Moines. It would be plain dereliction of duty for him to consult less than the interest of the state when it comes to expenditure of state money.
The IAIS corridor is presently well-served by I-80, buses and airplanes. The rail service contemplated would amount to slow, duplicative and very expensive surface transit for the "leavings" of places like Atlantic and Grinnell. Would you invest any of your money in that? If not, why should Branstad, on behalf of the taxpayers of Iowa?
Long term I am confident that passenger rail will return to Iowa. Once Amtrak gets to the Quad Cities, the pressure will increase and I don't see the folks in Eastern Iowa giving up until its coming to Iowa City. In the meantime, I-80 won't get any less congested…
dakotafred People who think Terry Branstad is a bum because he hasn't sprung for this loser should read the appreciation of his long stewardship as governor in The Economist magazine for Oct. 19-25. Iowa -- not exactly a Republican stronghold, otherwise -- likes him well.
Iowa -- not exactly a Republican stronghold, otherwise -- likes him well.
Maybe the larger urban/industrialized areas aren't Republican strongholds, but the rest of Iowa is.
Just because he won't spring for this doesn't make me think he's a bum, I've thought of him as bum way before this. Since towards the end of his first go around way before this ever came up.
CJtrainguy Tea party stand
Tea party stand
Please leave partisan politics out of the discussion.
Norm
Victrola1 Some local elected officials are criticizing Gov. Terry Branstad's decision not to renew Iowa's membership to a federal passenger rail advocacy group for next year despite the commitment by local entities to pay the membership fee. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110819/NEWS09/110819010/Branstad-turns-down-cities-rail-funding-
Some local elected officials are criticizing Gov. Terry Branstad's decision not to renew Iowa's membership to a federal passenger rail advocacy group for next year despite the commitment by local entities to pay the membership fee.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110819/NEWS09/110819010/Branstad-turns-down-cities-rail-funding-
The Headline here might read: "The Iowa Gov. turns the Corn Belt Rocket into a Corn Dodger"
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