Why is it that it behooves Americans that thing can be done, and done well, on a timetable. Passenger systems do it with a certain amount of reasonablness: look at commuter operations today, like NJT, MNRR, and the real test of time (pun?) the LIRR. Most all railroads in the US used to work on timetable and train orders and did well at it with very precise execution. Europe schedules departures on the half minute! So, put away the excuses, the what if this or that, the what happens when, and we can't beacuses and actually work at running trains to provide a service that customers will pay for. No it doesn't have to be on the half second or blowing out the markers of the guy that takes the siding, but do set up a reasonable timetable and work at making it happen. And don't scrap the timetable because it gets missed one day and you end up operating a half a day off until next time when you fall back to not catch up to a semblence of schedule. It can't be done because everybody says it can't be done then all set out to prove the negative! For the most part, infact, it has proven to work and customers do pay for the good service. It is just unremarked. As I said, it doesn't have to be precise to the second but, for freight, within a reasonble window.
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I can't speak for other Class I carriers, however, my carrier has tried virtually every performance enhancing process that rises to the top of the Buzzword lexicon ... we probably have as many Six Sigma graduates as we have locomotives.The Six Sigma analysis has been applied to all forms of processes that the company uses from servicing locomotives, repairing cars, calling crews, scheduling trains and any and every other kind of process that the company uses. In the monkey see, monkey do, world of rail management I am certain all the other carriers have done similar things.
While T&E personnel view 'Quality of Life' as a laughable buzz word....the carriers are actually trying to improve it....it is not a simple task. especially since not everyone view quality of life through the same sightlines....what is one persons desired quality, is not necessarily someone else's. While the carriers strive for perfection....the definition of perfection changes based up who is asked and when they are asked.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD The problem with scheduling transportation is that reality always throws the best schedule out of whack. Something, anything, happens and throws one element of the schedule seriously off schedule and then all the disruptions cascade down the system. . . . My carrier has ID runs . . . Ever since man began moving from one point to another, the journey has been fraught with unexpected peril which makes accurately forecasting the arrival at destination a crapshoot. I have not devised that system and it is not for the lack of 40+ years of trying.
. . . My carrier has ID runs . . .
Ever since man began moving from one point to another, the journey has been fraught with unexpected peril which makes accurately forecasting the arrival at destination a crapshoot. I have not devised that system and it is not for the lack of 40+ years of trying.
"ID" = "Inter-Divisional" (long) crew districts - correct ?
I hear you, BaltACD - keep trying, will ya ?
I suspect that if a railroad were to hire a bunch of efficiency and process control experts of the "Just-In-Time", W. Edward Deming, "Six SIgma" kind to try and bring more order and predictability to the chaos - such things as surprise trains from other railroads, unreliable and malfunctioning locomotives, track inspectors finding defective rails, etc., the demands of those experts for more precision and less 'slack' would quickly drive the railroad operating people nuts.
Conversely, a fine-tuned scheduled operating plan could be turned into recycling paper and confetti by just a single grade crossing accident on a multi-track main line, or a tree down across a pole line, or a washout - none of which involve any 'fault' or anything reasonably preventable on the railroad's part - and that kind of random-chance event would drive those guys nuts as well.
That said - merely because perfection cannot be achieved does not mean that the industry should not be striving for a better level of operational predictability.
How does that aspect of operations today compare to how it was done in 1999-2000, right after the ConRail split-up ? 1990, just as the industry was starting to rebound ? 1980, when the industry was kind of surprised to find that it was still alive ? 1970, in the midst of the Penn Central and other NorthEast RR bankruptcies, and at least the B&O was just barely hanging on (at least as it seemed to me then) ? I'll be surprised if the trend hasn't been towards more scheduled and predictable operations - slowly, perhaps, but headed in that direction.
Someone once wrote that man consistently over-estimates what he can accomplish in the short-term, but under-estimates what he can accomplish over the long term. That principle seems applicable to this conundrum, and may be helpful in maintaining efforts at improvement over the long haul, even though it seems to some people that there's nothing more that can be done about it now, so it's not worth trying (that was John Kneiling's definition of a pessimist - in his world, an optimist found problems that could be fixed to improve matters).
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr Georgia Railroader: [ snipped and rearranged - PDN] Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes . . . Tough issue, especially since all people can have "good days" and "bad days" as both you and BaltACD have pointed out. Even with a much more predictable schedule, some people will still have some problems with alertness on some days. But as I point out below, the total magnitude of the problem can be reduced considerably, and that perhaps makes it less necessary to separate the two groups. Georgia Railroader: I've been called with no rest when there was no train scheduled. I've also sat first out on the board for five straight days, not knowing when to sleep. But that kind of practice only aggravates the problem. Minimizing this counter-productive scheduling then leaves us with mostly the 'people' problem mentioned above - instead of the present mix of a problem that results from both scheduling and people problems. Getting rid of the 'poor scheduling' part of the problem - might it be as much as half of the total problem ? - would be a good start. - Paul North.
Georgia Railroader: [ snipped and rearranged - PDN] Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes . . .
Georgia Railroader: I've been called with no rest when there was no train scheduled. I've also sat first out on the board for five straight days, not knowing when to sleep.
Sure I think getting everything on some sort of schedule would certainly help. It would be nice to know when I'm going to work so I can plan my day and rest accordingly. Sure we all have bad days. There's times when no matter how much rest you're running on it feels like a battle just to stay awake. The job can get very boring at times, and unlike some class 1 RR's we are not allowed to nap while stopped. A power nap can work wonders, but we'll get fired if a TM thinks we're sleeping.
The problem with scheduling transportation is that reality always throws the best schedule out of whack. Something, anything, happens and throws one element of the schedule seriously off schedule and then all the disruptions cascade down the system.
In the railroad environment the standard 2 hour call figure is only accurate about 90% of the time...if you are figuring operations on a 50 MPH railroad that 2 hour call represents 100 miles...a lot can happen in 100 miles to throw the call seriously off the figure. My carrier has ID runs that require a 3 hour call...that is 150 miles of potential pot holes and delays....some have mentioned 10 or 12 hour call figures....that is 500 to 600 miles and don't forget....the problem that ties up the line need not be with the train that is the one being called.
Were anyone to devise a scheduling system that
1. Had the crew ALWAYS on duty just as it's train arrived
2. Had the crew ALWAYS leaving their away from home terminal on their legal rest.
3. Always permitted crews to spend their maximum time at home knowing when their next duty cycle would begin 12 or more hours in advance.
Not only would the railroads beat a path to your door carrying bags of gold - so would all other forms of transportation where their manpower moves between points and have rest provisions concerning when they can be on duty. Ever since man began moving from one point to another, the journey has been fraught with unexpected peril which makes accurately forecasting the arrival at destination a crapshoot. I have not devised that system and it is not for the lack of 40+ years of trying.
But as has been pointed out, simple sleep patterns are not the whole story...compounded stress factors over long periods of time add to fatigue problems.
Paul: Good strategy to try to sort out the various contributing variables in order to come up with a "solution."
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Georgia Railroader[ snipped and rearranged - PDN] Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes . . .
Georgia Railroader I've been called with no rest when there was no train scheduled. I've also sat first out on the board for five straight days, not knowing when to sleep.
zugmann Georgia Railroader: I am fully aware of my limitations. Yeah, they all say that.
Georgia Railroader: I am fully aware of my limitations.
I am fully aware of my limitations.
Yeah, they all say that.
Yea that aint all they say.
Georgia Railroader I am fully aware of my limitations.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Georgia Railroader: Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes, but so does just being incompetent, and the carriers hire a steady crop of those. They want warm bodies out here doesn't matter if you have the IQ of a fence post. But it's not just new hires that make mistakes, we all do at some point, we're human. That's the whole thing. This whole "I'm macho and can handle it attitude" is not helping manners any. Yes, we're humans and humans need rest. Basic science 101. There are also incompetent people out here - but that is another issue entirely.
Georgia Railroader: Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes, but so does just being incompetent, and the carriers hire a steady crop of those. They want warm bodies out here doesn't matter if you have the IQ of a fence post. But it's not just new hires that make mistakes, we all do at some point, we're human.
Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes, but so does just being incompetent, and the carriers hire a steady crop of those. They want warm bodies out here doesn't matter if you have the IQ of a fence post. But it's not just new hires that make mistakes, we all do at some point, we're human.
That's the whole thing. This whole "I'm macho and can handle it attitude" is not helping manners any. Yes, we're humans and humans need rest. Basic science 101.
There are also incompetent people out here - but that is another issue entirely.
It's not a matter of being "macho" as you like to say, it's a matter of being able to do your job. Thanks for the science lesson though. Read my post again, I never said I was a machine that can keep going day after day with no rest. I am fully aware of my limitations.
Georgia Railroader Most of us can handle this lifestyle. Some can never get used to it and continue to come to work tired and worn out. So what do you do? How do you seperate the two groups? Fatigue leads to mistakes, but so does just being incompetent, and the carriers hire a steady crop of those. They want warm bodies out here doesn't matter if you have the IQ of a fence post. But it's not just new hires that make mistakes, we all do at some point, we're human.
BaltACD As gets proved here daily, when it comes to governance, those with no first hand experience with the issues always believe they have the answers. The carriers can have every possible rule and procedure in place and if the FRA or Congress want to implement their hair brained 'solution' they will. Zug - how are the revised Hours of Service and rest rules working for you in keeping you alert and paid. The consensus from the crewmen on my territory is that the revised rules are doing nothing to enhance their 'real rest' and are stealing money from their bottom line. Fatigue occurs, when it occurs. I have woken up and been totally fatigued after having had 9 hours sleep. I have been awake for 36 straight hours and set a personal best time at the race track. Time off is no guarantee of being alert. Our alertness ebbs and flows through our day...the less stimulus we have to respond to, the less alert we become....the more stimulation, the more alert. Under the right circumstance, the operation of a train (or any other form of transportation) can be one of the most monotonous and least stimulating activities going. Thousands of motor vehicle accidents occur yearly because of the operator falling asleep, and the operation of a motor vehicle has many more stimuli to the operator than does the operation of commercial transportation mediums other than buses & trucks. We can do many things in this world....legislating alertness is not one of them. zugmann: My point was that Graniteville and Chatsworth were the landmark incidents that brought to light two major issues (dark territory and electronics). Will a similar incident that highlights fatigue follow? I don't have a crystal ball - but if it does happen, then I would bet a week's paycheck that the railroad will NOT like the rules the government will enact. My opinion is that it would behoove the industry to start working on its own rules - instead of standing by with their thumbs up their SD70Aces.
As gets proved here daily, when it comes to governance, those with no first hand experience with the issues always believe they have the answers. The carriers can have every possible rule and procedure in place and if the FRA or Congress want to implement their hair brained 'solution' they will.
Zug - how are the revised Hours of Service and rest rules working for you in keeping you alert and paid. The consensus from the crewmen on my territory is that the revised rules are doing nothing to enhance their 'real rest' and are stealing money from their bottom line.
Fatigue occurs, when it occurs. I have woken up and been totally fatigued after having had 9 hours sleep. I have been awake for 36 straight hours and set a personal best time at the race track. Time off is no guarantee of being alert. Our alertness ebbs and flows through our day...the less stimulus we have to respond to, the less alert we become....the more stimulation, the more alert. Under the right circumstance, the operation of a train (or any other form of transportation) can be one of the most monotonous and least stimulating activities going.
Thousands of motor vehicle accidents occur yearly because of the operator falling asleep, and the operation of a motor vehicle has many more stimuli to the operator than does the operation of commercial transportation mediums other than buses & trucks.
We can do many things in this world....legislating alertness is not one of them.
zugmann: My point was that Graniteville and Chatsworth were the landmark incidents that brought to light two major issues (dark territory and electronics). Will a similar incident that highlights fatigue follow? I don't have a crystal ball - but if it does happen, then I would bet a week's paycheck that the railroad will NOT like the rules the government will enact. My opinion is that it would behoove the industry to start working on its own rules - instead of standing by with their thumbs up their SD70Aces.
My point was that Graniteville and Chatsworth were the landmark incidents that brought to light two major issues (dark territory and electronics). Will a similar incident that highlights fatigue follow? I don't have a crystal ball - but if it does happen, then I would bet a week's paycheck that the railroad will NOT like the rules the government will enact. My opinion is that it would behoove the industry to start working on its own rules - instead of standing by with their thumbs up their SD70Aces.
BaltACD you absolutley nailed it. We get trainmasters fresh out of college who come out here and try to reinvent the wheel, when they have never laced up a pair of boots and spent two minutes out here in the real world. The carriers dont want to promote from within anymore, they would rather hire a college grad and brainwash them. Now I dont mean to knock them and be so harsh, they're just trying to make a living like we are. What I have a problem with is them pulling a 30 plus year vet out of service for what they thought was a rule violation when they couldn't buy a clue about rail operations, or operating rules if they had the CEO's money.
Here's the bottom line. We work in a dangerous industry, 15,000 tons of steel are unforgiving. We do our jobs to the best of our ability, but we also have lives outside the railroad. We have family, friends, events, games, and all the other great things in life that keep us sane when we're not working. We want to spend as much time doing those things as possible, and as a result our rest sometimes suffers. I can and have ran on as little as a couple hours sleep, hell I've worked 12 hours with no rest in the past 30 plus hours. I've been called with no rest when there was no train scheduled. I've also sat first out on the board for five straight days, not knowing when to sleep.
zugmann Georgia Railroader: Just accept that and move on, we're gonna be ok. Pay me now or pay me later. If the railroads refuse to address the issue themselves, then the feds will eventually ram it down their throats with a reactionary act after the next Chatsworth. The railroads like to claim the current system gives them "flexibility". More like it allows them to continue to be incompetent.
Georgia Railroader: Just accept that and move on, we're gonna be ok.
Just accept that and move on, we're gonna be ok.
Pay me now or pay me later. If the railroads refuse to address the issue themselves, then the feds will eventually ram it down their throats with a reactionary act after the next Chatsworth.
The railroads like to claim the current system gives them "flexibility". More like it allows them to continue to be incompetent.
I agree. It takes an act of congress to get the carriers to do anything.
Once again we have another RE collision at night with a crew apparrently passing signals, it's an unfortunate truth that the carriers have found so many loop holes in the new hours of service law that we are now working more hours than before! We're not quite at the middle of the year and I have grossed as much as I made all of last year. - Not really my goal. I have however missed uncles funeral,family gatherings, etc. etc. I work 6 days a week, and usually have Monday off when the pools pile up at home. I spend 12-15 hours at home and 25-35 at the hotel waiting for my next train home. No one knows when that will be, therefore I never know when to sleep and when to wake up.
I loathe meeting other trains at control points as I know they may be asleep and totally unaware. We've begun trying to run the railroad on a schedule and for originating trains it works pretty well when a remote R2D2 hasn't plowed into a train and stacked up cars in the middle of the yard. Through trains are a little tougher but we seem to be able to hold the "hot" stack trains to a predictable schedule. Those trains that have assigned crews are terrific for your sanity if you can hold them and if they don't just die both directions. Clearly assigned crews has to be the next step towards safety, along with the 10-12 hour call.
Some years ago, I helped a number of air traffic controllers try to manage the stress of their jobs better. Of course it is different than rail work, but probably even more stressful. Stress can come from both over-stimulation and from boredom. Chronic stress can interfere with memory, judgment, reaction times and attention, along with sleep (which can cause problems with all the preceding items) and emotional state. Hence the need for more predictability in schedules, so as to reduce at least one factor in "human error accidents." The world is interconnected and as zug pointed out, what affects engineers concerns the rest of us.
I haven't been "on call" for a while now. I made more money last year than all other years, though. When I first came here we had 6 for 8 and it sucked. I will never miss that crap. Come home at 6am to be called at noon. No thanks.
There are lots of people that can't handle their rest. But the new rest rules (As I pointed out before) are not helping. I like the 10 hour rule, but it is not addressing the fatigue issue. Hence the 5 pages of discussion.
zugmann My point was that Graniteville and Chatsworth were the landmark incidents that brought to light two major issues (dark territory and electronics). Will a similar incident that highlights fatigue follow? I don't have a crystal ball - but if it does happen, then I would bet a week's paycheck that the railroad will NOT like the rules the government will enact. My opinion is that it would behoove the industry to start working on its own rules - instead of standing by with their thumbs up their SD70Aces.
As I noted above, faulty judgement is a sign of fatigue. Thus, without having the complete reports on those two incidents and not knowing if the fatigue factor was really pursued (Chatsworth we know was all about texting and cell phoning but we don't know the mental state off hand). The ability to think, act, and react, goes down as time goes forward unless there is a rest or refreshing time period. Thus, the end of a shift is probably more likely to be when an "accident" might occur. This does not rule out the first hour when you are still removing the cobwebs from your mind, but by the time one is on the job one is more likely awake and alert.
And don't say management doesn't care. It does...accidents interrupt the flow of traffic and an interupption in the flow of traffic is an interruption in the flow of money. Some are shortsighted, yes, but, management and many others are coming around to understanding the wider signs and implications of fatigue beyond just being sleepy.
I knew a family that owned car dealerships. Breakfast meetings every morning at 6. Close of day meetings everyday at 9:30 in the evening. Then home for dinner, go over the day's happenings and get ready for the next day's 6AM meeting. Little sleep. Lots of confusion. Jail time. Fatigue is a major issue in so many different areas of our lives.
BaltACD The incidents that caused the Feds to move (Graniteville, SC & Chatsworth, CA) had nothing to do with fatigue and everything to do with simple failure to comply with existing rules and inattention to the requirements of duty.
The incidents that caused the Feds to move (Graniteville, SC & Chatsworth, CA) had nothing to do with fatigue and everything to do with simple failure to comply with existing rules and inattention to the requirements of duty.
Today's environment does not accept that one fails to comply with rules. Where a simple failure to comply with rules causes a incident, the response has become to write 10 more rules that in effect water down the seriousness of the one rule that was violated in the first place.
Anymore, rules are being written by lawyers and insurance actuaries and in the language of their craft...not in the language of those that must use the rules in the real world in a daily, practical basis. In the not too distant past, the Book of Operating Rules was printed in a 4 x 6 inch book of 150-200 pages, that fit in ones back pocket, written in simple, declarative language that left few ambiguities in what the rule stated and what was required to comply with the rule. In today's world crewmen risk getting a hernia lifting their grips containing all the required rule books onto the train and the books contain rules written in legalese that most likely would require ultimate adjudication at the level of the Supreme Court.
schlimm zug: That's telling it like it is! And since you're a railroad employee, you have the right to be critical, even if the rest of us do not. Some of the others' previous comments remind me of the slogans of Dr. Pangloss in Voltaire's Candide.
zug: That's telling it like it is! And since you're a railroad employee, you have the right to be critical, even if the rest of us do not. Some of the others' previous comments remind me of the slogans of Dr. Pangloss in Voltaire's Candide.
You have every right to be critical. The railroads do not operate in a bubble. Incidents/wrecks/collisions caused by fatigue do not just risk the lives of those on the train only.
zugmann If the railroads refuse to address the issue themselves, then the feds will eventually ram it down their throats with a reactionary act after the next Chatsworth. The railroads like to claim the current system gives them "flexibility". More like it allows them to continue to be incompetent.
If the railroads refuse to address the issue themselves, then the feds will eventually ram it down their throats with a reactionary act after the next Chatsworth.
Georgia Railroader Just accept that and move on, we're gonna be ok.
schlimm Georgia Railroader: That's not what I'm saying at all. One fatality is one too many. It's not nor will it ever be a perfect system, but it is what it is and for those of us who actually do this for a living we are fully aware of the dangers that go with this job. I knew what I was getting myself into when I hired out. The company gave a discripton of the job and told me what was to be expected of me and if I couldn't hack it I wouldn't be out here. "it is what it is" and all the rest of what you say sounds like a complacent acceptance of the status quo. Sure you knew what you were getting into, but the same could be said for everybody who has ever worked in a hazardous environment. Your rail union brothers worked hard to get many improvements, as did those who worked in coal mines, etc. Clearly American railroads are safer than ever before, as I stated, based on hard data. But that statistic makes it difficult to make useful comparisons to see if they are as safe as other systems. If they are, excellent. If not, maybe changes need to be sought.
Georgia Railroader: That's not what I'm saying at all. One fatality is one too many. It's not nor will it ever be a perfect system, but it is what it is and for those of us who actually do this for a living we are fully aware of the dangers that go with this job. I knew what I was getting myself into when I hired out. The company gave a discripton of the job and told me what was to be expected of me and if I couldn't hack it I wouldn't be out here.
That's not what I'm saying at all. One fatality is one too many. It's not nor will it ever be a perfect system, but it is what it is and for those of us who actually do this for a living we are fully aware of the dangers that go with this job. I knew what I was getting myself into when I hired out. The company gave a discripton of the job and told me what was to be expected of me and if I couldn't hack it I wouldn't be out here.
"it is what it is" and all the rest of what you say sounds like a complacent acceptance of the status quo. Sure you knew what you were getting into, but the same could be said for everybody who has ever worked in a hazardous environment. Your rail union brothers worked hard to get many improvements, as did those who worked in coal mines, etc. Clearly American railroads are safer than ever before, as I stated, based on hard data. But that statistic makes it difficult to make useful comparisons to see if they are as safe as other systems. If they are, excellent. If not, maybe changes need to be sought.
Well if you have ever spent any time out here on the rr you would know how things are done. Maybe walk a mile in my shoes and then try to tell me about how things are and who done what for me. I'm very thankful for everything that has been done over the years. This industry would be a lot worse off if those folks had not fought for what we now have. I understand that, I live it everyday.
Complacent? That's a word I dont identify with. Why? Because it gets you killed, end of story. I'm not saying there is not room for improvement. One death is too many out here, but there is no one size fits all solution to fatigue and crew scheduling. Just accept that and move on, we're gonna be ok.
I am sorry if it seems I was replying directly to you Schlimm...but it seemed to me that there was a trend to isolate "fatigue related" accidents from other types, implying that the crews came to work with the intent of falling asleep once out of the yard.
It seems as if these recent accidents were somehow perceived as being different than other accidents.
They are not, of course, but in reality you could chase every single accident down to the finite point and cause and find it is the result of some type of man failure.
A track maintainer fails to adjust a switch correctly, and the train picks the switch...or a engine service employee fails to find that one sharp flange, a signal maintainer fails to bond a wire correctly, and a signal blinks at the wrong time, or the dumbest one of all, a crew shoves blind.
Fatigue is a real issue, and most of us have to make a choice at some point in our careers.
Almost every railroader I know, both male and female, have been divorced at least once during their career.
Wives and husbands think they can handle the separation and the stress of being a one parent family, and those without kids think they can handle the loneliness, but the truth is you get tired of meeting each other on the way out the door.
Somewhere along the way, the railroader decides he or she can't keep up both ends of the deal...either he stays awake to participate in family stuff, or he gets enough sleep to keep his head in the operation at work, but one or the other has to suffer, and most of us have that one incident, usually two or three years in, that by sheer luck we manage to not get killed or hurt, and that wakes us up to the danger of burning the candle at both ends.
The only way you can have any semblance of a normal life is if you have enough seniority to hold an assigned daylight job with assigned days off, (which never correspond with your spouse's days off)
I got lucky and hit the industry at the right time on the right railroad to only have to ride the board a few years, but they were very tough years.
I still have days off that don't match my wife and kids weekends off, but I do have one day a week where we have quality time together at my daughter's softball games.
But most guys, especially those on the class 1 roads live on pool service or extra board time, all the assigned jobs are held by guys old enough to have had morning coffee with Jesus.
So we choose the railroad life, let the home front try and handle itself, and we do get enough rest to be safe.
The recent numbers bear this out, we move more stuff farther, with less men and material than before, and we do it safer than ever.
The idea that we are happy with the "status quo" is not close to the facts.
If technology came up with a better way, or crew rules and sleep rules could be adjusted to allow better rest, without a loss in income, we railroaders, union and other wise, would jump on it with both feet.
I get the impression, right or wrongly, that a lot of people outside the industry think we are paid handsomely, and we are willing to work 12 hours a day for the overtime.
Truth is, we make a little less than your average automobile assembly plant worker, and they get to work inside out of the rain.
Don Phillips wrote a OpEd for Trains a few years back, and in it he pointed out the real truth of why we get paid...we get paid to show up in the rain, snow, blazing heat day after day and to do our jobs safely each time.
We take each fatality personally, even if we never met the person, because we all recognize the fact that one little slip, one moment of distraction or inattention and it could be me in that body bag.
All of us, even those who swear otherwise, are rail fans at heart.
Why else would anyone come out in the middle of the night to get soaking wet and freezing feet simply to ride a train or switch out cars in a yard?
We take pride when we do it right, and take it personally when it goes south.
And all of us knew what we were getting into right from the start....railroads spend a great deal of time in the training process to remind us that the call of duty will keep you away from every birthday, every holiday and every special event...that's why they have 90 day probationary work, so the guys who can't separate the home front from the work can be weeded out.
Is there ever going to be 100% rules compliance?
I doubt it.
Is there ever going to be a time when the accident rate is 0?
I doubt that also, but we are getting better and better every year.
23 17 46 11
Well said, Ed. I particularly like your statement, "I doubt any of these crews mounted up, and then decided to rear end another train on purpose, ...." As Larry (tree68) says, "Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you"
Johnny
1. tree68: The stat you mention (accidents per million train miles) is the one the FRA uses and I cited (on the other thread).
2. ed: Who said or implied these weren't accidents? Who suggesting any were caused deliberately? Examining the causes and trying better systems to prevent the occurrences or reduce the severity of injuries doesn't mean these were not accidents.
Highway incident stats are almost always given as "per million(s of) miles driven." This tends to make the stats a little more comparable over the years.
F'rinstance, on graphing the highway stats around the great oil embargo of '74, I found that the death rate on our highways actually went up with the establishment of the 55MPH speed limit, reversing a 10 year downward trend. Total deaths went down as a result of a substantial drop in miles driven.
If there is a similar set of stats for RRs, we'll have something to work with.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
But fatigue manifests itself in so many ways...sleeping is, of course, the most noticable. But slow response times, longer overall timings, unprecise work leading to lack of quality, poor attitudes, disrespect for authority, rules, and fellow workers. It is an overall effect on workmanship, quality of work, and attitude that can bring a whole group of people or an entity down. It's defnitely not just lack of sleep.
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