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Trackside Lounge--second quarter, 2011

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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, June 10, 2011 6:36 PM

Actually, I wanted to earlier give a rousing two thumbs up to Jeff for the line "your CNW is showing"

In the last few months as far as I can tell, from what I read in some Train Order related threads and and in the Rear End Collision thread, as regards modern hiring practices, railroading is a whole new ballgame. The equipment may appear somewhat the same, but how they operate it is entirely different. Far from me to say which is, in whole or in part, better but it is different.

I am increasingly thinking maybe it is time to sit back and just watch it all roll by. History becomes less relevant every day.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, June 10, 2011 6:55 PM

All the TT&TO rule are gone.  No longer do GCOR users need to understand or worry about Right, Class and Direction.  The first GCOR still had those rules, but the second (1989) and subsequent editions didn't.  Now it's signal indication or track warrants on most lines.  Even Amtrak schedules appear in the back of the time table (UP) but have no authority, only given as information.

Interestingly, until recently new UP engines built by GE had a position (blanked out) for a toggle switch marked "Class Lights" on the back cab wall.

Jeff 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, June 10, 2011 7:47 PM

Giggles to Jeff!

To Nance:  "90" is green, "45" is yellow.  If you know why, you're doing fine!

Johnny, we railroads haven't had any class since CCOR became GCOR.  However, when the article about the Falcons that Jeff cited was written, the C&NW's Falcons were shown in the employee timetable with schedules, and designated as first class trains.  Whether that was for employee pride or publicity is probably a moot point, because more often than not the schedule was annulled and the train run as an extra--not because they couldn't maintain the ambitious schedule, but so they could run ahead of it!

Carl

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, June 10, 2011 7:54 PM

There's still places I work where 90 is yellow, 45 is yellow, 180 is yellow...

 

But "waycar" is a funny name for a cabin.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, June 10, 2011 8:24 PM

CShaveRR

Giggles to Jeff!

To Nance:  "90" is green, "45" is yellow.  If you know why, you're doing fine!

Johnny, we railroads haven't had any class since CCOR became GCOR.  However, when the article about the Falcons that Jeff cited was written, the C&NW's Falcons were shown in the employee timetable with schedules, and designated as first class trains.  Whether that was for employee pride or publicity is probably a moot point, because more often than not the schedule was annulled and the train run as an extra--not because they couldn't maintain the ambitious schedule, but so they could run ahead of it!

I have an ETT for the Iowa Railroad (IRRC. pre Iowa Interstate) from 1982.  They show one scheduled freight in each direction.  They named their trains the "Vulture." A twist on the CNW's Falcons and a kind of reference to picking the bones of the former RI that had sat mostly dormant for a year or so.

Jeff

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Friday, June 10, 2011 9:30 PM

zugmann
  There's still places I work where 90 is yellow, 45 is yellow, 180 is yellow... 

   Laugh  (See:  http://www.railroadsignals.us/signals/pl/pl.htm#the_Aspects_ )

zugmann
   But "waycar" is a funny name for a cabin.

  Smile, Wink & Grin  See:  http://www.whippanyrailwaymuseum.net/index.php/exhibits/equipment/cabooses/penn-n5c-cabin-car 

- Paul North.

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Friday, June 10, 2011 9:56 PM

Thanks everybody!

BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!)

Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!! SurpriseSadCryingAngryGrumpy

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

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Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, June 10, 2011 10:36 PM

cabin is a flippin weird name for a waycarMischief

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by AgentKid on Friday, June 10, 2011 11:26 PM

Now why would you call it a Cabin or Waycar when everybody knows it is a Van? At least in Ontario and eastern Canada!Smile, Wink & Grin

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:22 AM

AgentKid
Now why would you call it a Cabin or Waycar when everybody knows it is a Van? At least in Ontario and eastern Canada!Smile, Wink & Grin

Bruce

Can't believe what a crummy turn this discussion has taken!MischiefLaugh

Nance, John Armstrong's book has a diagram about where you could expect to find which signals.  It may make things a bit clearer to you.

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:48 AM

WMNB4THRTL

Thanks everybody!

BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!)

Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!! SurpriseSadCryingAngryGrumpy

It's a hard task to just memorize signal names and indications.  Easier if you figure out the system.  For example, take your slow approach and approach slow.  The second word in each is the action that you must take for the next signal.  Slow approach:  When the second word is approach, then you are going to be preparing to stop at the next signal.  The word in front has to do with the interlocking, switches, etc you are currently going through on your way to the next signal. 

 

Approach slow.  The slow is the second word.  So you will be reducing your speed to slow for the next signal.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:30 AM

CShaveRR

 

 

Can't believe what a crummy turn this discussion has taken!MischiefLaugh

I knew it was going to be a fight to the death to see who was going to be first to work that word into the thread, but I can't believe poor Carl had to get up at 3:22 AM EDT to do it!

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, June 11, 2011 9:44 AM

I was up because I was coughing (or perhaps hacking Wink) in the middle of the night.  Most of the conversation about caboose names had taken place after I'd retired for the evening.

By the way, I never heard "crummy" applied to cabooses in my railroad career.  I did hear "crumb-box" a few times. 

Carl

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CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:35 AM

CShaveRR

By the way, I never heard "crummy" applied to cabooses in my railroad career.

That doesn't surprise me. The way Dad told it, he only heard that expression early in his career, say at the end of the forties. Much before your career started.

Take care of that cough.

Bruce

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:58 AM

I think it's funny that the word "caboose" was hardly used by the railroads. 

 

Hey.. it's the weekend.  Just came off a week of working 12s (except last night).  Once again, due to manpower issues (the lack of).  But I did go up 5% in my step rate.  I'm now 95% railroader.  Well, at least on paper.  In reality, I'm probably like 2%.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, June 11, 2011 12:05 PM

CShaveRR

I was up because I was coughing (or perhaps hacking Wink) in the middle of the night.  Most of the conversation about caboose names had taken place after I'd retired for the evening.

By the way, I never heard "crummy" applied to cabooses in my railroad career.  I did hear "crumb-box" a few times. 

I was going to say that Carl seemed to be off his feed, but realized, after reading this post, that he simply was asleep at the switch. He's in excellent form--once he woke up!Wink

As I recall, the AT&N men spoke of the "cab."

 

Johnny

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Posted by Modelcar on Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:27 PM

Deggesty

 CShaveRR:

I was up because I was coughing (or perhaps hacking Wink) in the middle of the night.  Most of the conversation about caboose names had taken place after I'd retired for the evening.

By the way, I never heard "crummy" applied to cabooses in my railroad career.  I did hear "crumb-box" a few times. 

 

I was going to say that Carl seemed to be off his feed, but realized, after reading this post, that he simply was asleep at the switch. He's in excellent form--once he woke up!Wink

As I recall, the AT&N men spoke of the "cab."

 

As most of you know, I've not been a railroader, but the name "Crummy", seems to be no stranger in my life time...Not uncommon at all.  As applied to Cabooses.

Quentin

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:57 PM

Thanks everybody.

I'm currently reading (mostly) in "Rails Across America" by Wm Withuhn and can't help but post this quote, "Indeed, it took Congress until 1918 to adopt as standard for the United States the railroad system of time. By then, virtually the entire country was already using it."

Gee, some things never change!!! Devil

BTW, on a more serious note, for what it may or may not be worth, this book is particularly useful for the info I'm currently seeking. This on the off chance anyone else is interested in any of the same topics. (I guess I'm thinking esp. of our 'readers/lurkers' bc I know many/most of our 'posters' would know this material, most likely.)

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:52 PM

OK, so I know (of course) what a tie plate is but I've never heard of a fish plate (in railroading!!)??! What is that? Thx.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by AgentKid on Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:08 PM

You wondered about life in Depots for the Agent and their families? This question reminds me of the time my brother and me got into trouble for messing around with the Section Foreman's Tool shed.

As I remember fish plates are a different name for the joint bars that hold the rails together on jointed track They are bars that are contoured to fit up against the rail and have either four or six holes that line up with the bolt holes on the end of the rail to fasten them together.

We had a lot of fum fooling around with that stuff, but unfortunately couldn't repeat the experience.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:07 PM

A "fish plate" is a type of rail joint bar or splice bar that is pretty much just a thin flat and longish slab or bar of metal.  In a cross-sectional view, it is essentially just a vertical rectangle between the underside of the head of the rail, and the slanted upper surface of the rail's base.  Notably, it does not have a lower leg over the rest of the rail's base to make it into an L-shape, or angle bar.  Also, the top of this bar - under the head of the rail - does not have the heavier rolled section, or the horizontal fin or rib to make it thicker and stronger there - see this photo for a general idea: http://www.smrhaus.com.au/fish%20plate%20huck%20bolts.htm   

The distance/ dimension at the vertical center-line of the rail between the inward-sloped underside of the rail's head, and the downward-sloped top of the base of the rail, is called the "fishing" distance or dimension - which may partially explain the derivation of the name.  See also this brief discussion on 'fishplate' from the "Central Pacific Railroad Photographic History Museum":   http://discussion.cprr.net/2005/08/question-fishplate.html 

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:21 PM

Good evening.  I thought I'd share what I caught today.
 
The day started on a high note.  I got word that the CN/AC 105 was on the move so I headed to Neenah to see if it was there.  My timing was just right as luck would have it as I managed to get a couple shots of train M335.  It should've been gone by the time I got there.
 
CN/AC 105 Hogger's Window:
http://flic.kr/p/9Szue3
 
I decided then that some altitude might help gain some perspective on the neat lashup:
http://flic.kr/p/9SwB8K
 
As they passed the overpass (is that a double positive?) the hogger notched up a bit:
http://flic.kr/p/9SzuE5
 
Then some other business took me away from the tracks for a bit - that's ok too.
 
A491 came in town but I decided to pass up a wedgie of that train to get a reflection shot I've always wanted.  A416's SD60F peeks between some trees:
http://flic.kr/p/9SzuQE
 
L576 came to town with the IC 6204 leading.  I was pondering what to do when I heard the detector at MP 181.1 sound off...what the heck?  A quick trip up the embankment at Cecil street yielded the Q117 meet:
http://flic.kr/p/9Szv99
 
I headed back to Oshkosh and managed to catch both L576 and M342 but there's nothing special there.  Shortly after M342 cleared WOLF A447 came knocking, just as the clouds were breaking up:
http://flic.kr/p/9SzvC9
 
Finally, RTC called A447 to make sure he was clear of Neenah (meeting two at Anton, no less but it would be too dark).  A "through train" was coming down from Green Bay.  Given the time of day it meant either an empty Pulliam coal train or another empty coal/coke train.  Just before the light went too low C714 came calling with one SD70i and 92 empty HCSX 3-bay hoppers:
http://flic.kr/p/9SwCmR
 
Not a bad day at all!  C/C welcome.

Dan

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:07 PM

Good photos, but I need to ask:  what's the story on the CN/AC 105?

 

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by CNW 6000 on Sunday, June 12, 2011 7:45 AM

zugmann

Good photos, but I need to ask:  what's the story on the CN/AC 105?

 

 

Thanks Zug.  AFAIK that was an ex-Ski Train F40 that was repainted (but not yet lettered) for the passenger train in Sault Sainte Marie, ON.  Former Algoma Central turf as I recall.  Work was finished at Woodcrest, IL and it got sent north.  It spent a couple of days at Shops Yard in North Fond du Lac, WI and yesterday's M335 train took in north to Green Bay.  The L551 train heads up north to the UP so my guess is that'll take it north and then east.

Dan

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:03 AM

UP meaning Upper Peninsula, in this case.

You were much luckier yesterday than I was.  Hope the luck changes today--church is outdoors, with the tracks in the background!  Two scoots guaranteed, maybe there will be freights, too.

I think I'll have the fish plate for lunch after the railroadiana show.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, June 12, 2011 8:40 AM

Carl, Sigh

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

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Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, June 12, 2011 2:35 PM

Whaat?!BlindfoldMischief

Wish I was out on my bike today, but the necessary road trips are too long.  The railroadiana show at the Kane County Fairgrounds (used to be a big event--this one was small but easy to get through in a hurry) was worthwhile--got both volumes of Jim Kinkaid's books on tank car paint schemes.  This was about 20 miles west of us, and UP didn't send too much of interest through while we were along the tracks.

(Oh, I almost forgot...for less than an hour of church the tally was two scoots, two freights, and a two-piece surfacing gang.  An MofW crew with ballast to spread came past right afterwards.)

On the way home from the railroadiana show I was able to check out some standing freight equipment (very rare for me nowadays!)--got former numbers off three AEX covered hopper cars with ingredients for your next bowl of Kix cereal.

Couldn't get a decent fish plate where we had lunch.  Had to settle for a burger and a salad.  But their homemade cherry Diet Coke was amazing--far better than they put in the cans!

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:41 PM

For some diagrams of the various types and names for joint bars, see the following webpages - note that the terminology for these is not completely uniform, so some differences / discrepancies will appear:

http://www.harmersteel.com/catalog/tee-rails/splice-bars/ - To me, a "fish plate" is similar to the "splice bar" on the left, except that the fish plate would fit even closer in towards the vertical web of the rail, with perhaps less space between them than shown here; 

See also:  http://www.atlantictrack.com/connectors.html 

- Paul North.    

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, June 13, 2011 12:08 AM

I don't know how some guys do it.  How you can work for the railroad for any amount of time and still be a rail fan or have interest in it.  Must be a secret in there somewhere. 

 

 

Signed,

a very burned-out zug.

 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, June 13, 2011 1:15 AM

Zug, if I knew the answer to how or why I remained a railfan before, during, and after my career, I'd tell you.  I know that I am one of the lucky ones, and it probably had to do with landing in a job that I liked, one that seemed to be tailor-made for my interests and capabilities. 

I would be the last person on earth to tell someone I didn't know very well, "You got the wrong attitude!"  But attitude has a lot to do with it.  Being a railfan (not just a train-lover) gave me the knowledge I needed to get through my job, the eagerness to learn some things that I hadn't known, and the tenaciousness to do my level best at getting things done right (often in spite of those around and above me).

Obviously you're dissatisfied with the job.  You have to ask yourself why...no respect from fellow employees?  Are the working conditions something you hadn't expected?  Has one of your supervisors got it in for you (that happened to me often enough--I simply outlasted all of those guys!  I retired--they either got fired, demoted, or just plain quit, eventually)?  Getting too many cut slips for penalty claims?  You have to change what you can, and live with what you can't change.

Never stop looking for the better job that you can hold.  The only way to gain the seniority you need is to stick with it--we all went through our times when we were stuck with bottom-feeding.  It will improve.

Don't put too much into the fact that some of the rules you work with are just so much baloney.  That may be true, but if you follow them, and make them your friends, you'll stay out of trouble,  This is one place where you have to look out for Number One.

Respect has to be earned--that goes for your bosses as well as for you.

I hope you can climb out of the rut.  Just don't try to climb out by pulling somebody else in.


Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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