Please see my sticky request that these observations about the slowness of the forum cease. The IT folks are on it, but it has so far stumped them. Let's (slowly) move on.
Crandell
[locked]
Pages are again loading very, very slowly.
I think I'm on my third life, and the page still hasn't changed yet!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Pages are loading within a couple of seconds on Sunday morning with a reported 78 online, but note that "Who is online" only reports members and not guests.
When pages are loading slowly, the slowness seems to be more a l-o-n-g time between a request for a page and the start of data transfer. Once the transfer starts, the page appears to load quickly, suggesting that there is a long queue of pages to be sent, or there is a lot of outbound traffic on the pipes that connect the server to the internet.
It would be safe to assume that the forums are hosted on the same server as the rest of Trains.com and one of the features of Trains.com is streaming videos. I would also guess that the most popular time for watching the videos is in the evenings, which could lead to contention on outbound bandwidth.
- Erik
blue streak 1 My geek step son it may be the server set up. If the server is a - sncynocrous that means up load from server is much slower and downloadds faster. Says maybe server needs to be sncynocrous (please excuse spelling) meaning upload and download speeds are same. Trains staff take note:
My geek step son it may be the server set up. If the server is a - sncynocrous that means up load from server is much slower and downloadds faster. Says maybe server needs to be sncynocrous (please excuse spelling) meaning upload and download speeds are same.
Trains staff take note:
My understanding is that asynchronous in the forum discussion world means that the exchanges have to be iterative, and not simultaneous or near-instantaneous as it would be on chat lines, facebook, etc. You don't know when I am posting, and I don't know when you are posting. I must refresh in order to see when you have replied.
Basically, if you go to another similar site and it loads quickly, you can be sure it isn't your IP or your computer. It must be the site that is experiencing problems.
What I experience later in the evening is most frustrating because it seems to be slowest then, and that is when I do much of my moderating in relief of those further east,/earlier on the clock. Briefly reading and approving, or moving, or deleting posts should be quick, a few seconds. But it takes 30 seconds for the server to close off my function just done, and then I must sometimes backpage out to get to the next post awaiting approval. More time awaiting for the back-page to load!!
I have a life!! Or maybe I should say I want one.
I'm having some of the same on again/off again problems with Facebook today. But not so much with this fourm.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
tree68The Kalmbach folks have indicated here that they are aware of the issue. It could well be that the solution is outside what they want to or are able to spend on this freebie (bold emphasis mine).
IMO the combination of overloaded (hosting ISP?) servers combined with the unusual commercial forum software are the culprit. Public facing web servers are often 'virtual' instances sharing resources with other customers on the same physical server.
The next level of service likely is cost prohibitive, not sure about 'tuning' the performance of the back end forum software. I have noticed that most of the delay seems to be retrieving or storing core content, not waiting for the web page clutter / ads to be pushed to me.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
K. P. Harrier Paul D. North Jr. (Email on 4-7): [snipped] Is it OK if I respond to it with the email address I have on file for you?
And it might not be Kalmbach's servers at all - it could be their ISP, who may well provide access/space to other customers as well.
I think many assume that the server(s) that host the forum are physically located at the Kalmbach building. I seriously doubt that. We may be competing with the underwater basket weaving forum, or whatever, and probably are competing with such forums as may exist for other Kalmbach publications as well.
E-commerce may be a culprit as well - folks shopping on-line at a site hosted by the same ISP/servers that host this forum.
The Kalmbach folks have indicated here that they are aware of the issue. It could well be that the solution is outside what they want to or are able to spend on this freebie.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
While it is possible that Kalmbach runs a lot of business critical stuff on the server that hosts the forums, I would have serious questions about the judgment of anyone who would run business critical applications on a publicly accessed sever.
FWIW, the forum seems to be running well tonight - it was slow around 7PM PDT, but is really snappy now - though it might help that there are only 21 people online.
Paul D. North Jr. (Email on 4-7):
Greetings Paul:
Your personal email via Kalmbach WAS received, but something (????) will not allow me to respond. Is it OK if I respond to it with the email address I have on file for you?
It is best to always contact me (and feel free to do so) via kpharrier@yahoo.com instead of via the forum process, which very seldom allows me to reply.
Best wishes,
K.P.
Another forum I participate in has many thousands of users and generally several hundred are on line at any time...some of the threads extend to a thousand pages and more including images contained on the forum's server. Forum usage varies in accordance with meteorological events with a core of user 'regulars' that on line under most any circumstance. The forum does experience some slowing when several thousand users are on line and the operators apply some internal 'streamlining' tactics to keep response time at acceptable levels. In my 3 years experience with that forum it's response time has never sunk to the levels that are experienced on the Trains Forums during the evening hours on weekdays.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD and Paul North:
My guesss you guys are pretty accurate in your assesments of what has slowed down the FORUM responses.
Most every system runs, at some point of the day/ or week a program to archive the preceeding work period. Some ot that may be housed inside the Base system, or it may be acrhived to a disk or tape for long term storage off site, usually to save the data in case of a catastrophic event at the Base system's location (ie; fire, flood, earthquake) it is just sound business practices. Point is qhwn that 'housekeeping' program is running, as BALT ACD pointed out the system gets noticeably slower ( or is taken completely off line to accomplish the acrhiving of data).
Paul's point of note that there are several very large files running on the TRAINS FORUM. Is quite possibly the source of some slowing down as those files are loaded by users. It is his valid point, referencing the "CAFE" Thread and the other Thread of general topics that grow out with time to multiple pages, and are periodically cut back and then re-instituted; that certainly, proves the point Paul made referencing the ability of those large files to soak up speed.
A case in point might be the very excellent and over 100 page THREAD authored by KP Harrier and the other Posters from the Southwest and Southern Cal. It is a worthy read and truly, interesting. The pictures help to explain what is going on with that work.
Possibly, by further splitting it into a format consisting of various 'chapters' that might relieve the necessity to load the whole THREAD and pictures for each view(?). If that would resolve sdome of the problem; possibly KP and his fellow Posters on that THREAD might pick the points at which to break the THREAD? I tend to think that Paul is on traget with his reasoning and the rationale to find more speed(?)
I say that because, it seems that the IT folks at Kalmbach are seemingly, just ignoring the issues and problems we (as users are experiencing); while the "editorial staff" seems be be, by their silence on the TOPIC of this Thread, content tpo let the subscribers and users to twist in the wind and fret.
When using our mainframe applications at work....I can detect some of the slowdown's that occur when the IT people are running some of their Batch jobs that have to access multiple large databases. I don't know how our company's computers currently rank, but at one time we were the 7th Largest IBM shop in the WORLD.....so we run some serious computational horsepower.
Paul_D_North_Jr I'll now demonstrate that I do indeed have "The wisdom to know the difference", and hence will gladly defer to someone who has shown far more expertise in the subject than I. The husband of a friend of my wife's was - then retired, but now is again- an IT guy/ data-base manager for some major pharmaceutical companies (on-call 24/7 and all that, including during one of our recent Saturday night dinners . . . ). Next time we get together maybe I'll ask him to apply some of his acumen to this subject, and see what he thinks about it . . . - Paul North.
I'll now demonstrate that I do indeed have "The wisdom to know the difference", and hence will gladly defer to someone who has shown far more expertise in the subject than I.
The husband of a friend of my wife's was - then retired, but now is again- an IT guy/ data-base manager for some major pharmaceutical companies (on-call 24/7 and all that, including during one of our recent Saturday night dinners . . . ). Next time we get together maybe I'll ask him to apply some of his acumen to this subject, and see what he thinks about it . . .
- Paul North.
My experience in the IT world leads me to believe that the Business Programs that are running on the box in our 'background' and most likely in the foreground of the box itself are having priority on the available computer cycles....I have no idea of the daily computer routines that Kalmbach finds necessary to keep it's multiple businesses up to date and manageable....but whatever those processes are they must have priority over a bunch of people kibitzing about railroads and model trains.
From my personal experience I know one database call, although supported by the software, can hog ALL available computer cycles for several hours until it completes its assigned work. While our slow downs are not that bad.....they are much too close for a computer being used by the public.
Last night (Weds., 06 April 2011) from around 9:50 PM EDT to 10:30 PM EDT or so it was erratic - it took about 2 mins. to log on the 1st time, then some pages would load quickly, others much slower - maybe 30 to 60 seconds - so better, but not great . . .
Two possible causes occur to me, which I'll share here to demonstrate that I know next to nothing about this technology . . .
1) The last time this kind of thing was happening a year or two ago, one of the supposed remedies was to cut down the length of some of the busier threads - the "Diner", the "Lounge", the "Not So Improved Humor Thread", etc. by ending them from time to time and starting new ones every month or quarter to keep them from getting too bulky. Much as I like and occasionally participate in K.P. Harrier's "Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates" thread, it's now at 103 pages and 1,542 posts or "Replies" - most of which are "photo-heavy" - and which has been viewed 174,885 times now ! So I wonder if accessing and loading a file of that size could be bogging down the servers ? (The only other one of that length which I see anymore on this Forum is something like "British Rail Operations", and though it's about 125 pages if I recall correctly, it's not used near as often.) Perhaps the time has come to likewise start a "Vol. 2" of "Sunset Route Two-Tracking Updates" to help get rid of this problem ?
2) Somewhat similarly - would the recent increase in the number of threads listed on the 1st page of the Forum possibly be a cause of these delays ?
Just my "off-the-wall" worth . . . Yours for better and speedier Forum-ing . . .
86 users and falling, 5:30 Pacific Daylight Time, I clocked it at around A minute and a half. It's getting faster now, (around 13 seconds) but 5:30 here is about evening in the east, so it makes sense.
The Beaverton, Fanno Creek & Bull Mountain Railroad
"Ruby Line Service"
Having had part of my career in the IT world....IT 'professionals' tend to look down their nose at any part of a organization that are not 'IT professionals'. In more common terms, Geeks only respect other Geeks.
samfp1943 Do not understand why all IT Departments seem to house the characters they employ(?) as well as the hubris exhibited by others that they report to referencing their lack of any understanding of the how's, and why's of Computer related problems. It seems to be a 'Chicken Little' syndrome. Those that uses the system constantly start an alarm that there may be an issue. The IT department goes on the defensive, and insists there is no problem' management insists they know there is nothing wrong. And the eventual collapse is viewed as a 'normal function of things. And the USERS are left tearing their hair out. Ain't technology wonderful! .
Do not understand why all IT Departments seem to house the characters they employ(?) as well as the hubris exhibited by others that they report to referencing their lack of any understanding of the how's, and why's of Computer related problems. It seems to be a 'Chicken Little' syndrome. Those that uses the system constantly start an alarm that there may be an issue. The IT department goes on the defensive, and insists there is no problem' management insists they know there is nothing wrong. And the eventual collapse is viewed as a 'normal function of things. And the USERS are left tearing their hair out. Ain't technology wonderful! .
11715 to 1800 hours- users went from 51 to 70. System is starting to slow down.
I am very surprised at the arrogance that Bucyrus seemed to be indicating from his contact with C?S over the slowing down of the FORUM responses.
The conclusion I am drawing from what you all are stating about the C?S contacts and the response they are presenting is.....Editorial doesn't have enough technical competence to challenge IT on the BS answers IT is giving when Editorial asks the questions. IT will never believe they have a problem unless it affects them directly or until a 'user' group they report to hammer home the severity of the problem.
samfp1943 Personally, my dealings with Kalmbach C/S reps has to date been handled satisfactorily, and professionally. The response noted by Bucyrus seems to be going the other way, possibly from an individual who is overwhelmed by a problem that is not in their normal repertoire? So it is just say anything to get the caller off the line(?). Poorly Handled call.
Personally, my dealings with Kalmbach C/S reps has to date been handled satisfactorily, and professionally. The response noted by Bucyrus seems to be going the other way, possibly from an individual who is overwhelmed by a problem that is not in their normal repertoire? So it is just say anything to get the caller off the line(?). Poorly Handled call.
In my conversation with customer service, the person I spoke to was completely fair and reasonable. However, customer service is not in the position to address forum problems because the forum is entirely the responsibility of the editorial department. I have not spoken directly to them, but I have spoken indirectly to them through customer service, and the information I stated above is from the editorial department as relayed back to be by customer service.
The conclusion that I draw is the editorial department is aware of the problem, but does not think that it is very significant, or that it will have a lasting effect on the participation in the forum.
Bucyrus said: "...The response was that they are aware of the problem, are considering how to fix it, cannot say when it will be fixed, and cannot say if it will be fixed..."
In this day and time the term: "Customer Service" has certainly addressed any number of new meanings...not to mention certain pejorative meanings as well (ie; 'customer No-Service'). Personally, my dealings with Kalmbach C/S reps has to date been handled satisfactorily, and professionally. The response noted by Bucyrus seems to be going the other way, possibly from an individual who is overwhelmed by a problem that is not in their normal repertoire? So it is just say anything to get the caller off the line(?). Poorly Handled call.
My frame of reference was as a C?S Rep at a major trucking company handling its top, major customer's problems over a number of years.
The Editorial staff needs to get out in front of this issue and get a handle on what is happening or what has been done within their I.T. area to create the slow down in this normally, excellently preforming system.
This can be potentially, a very damaging issue to an otherwise fine publication!
Just my take and on the slowing down issue.
I called customer service this morning and told them about the problem, and the concern about it by forum users. I was told the following:
1) All issues pertaining to the forum are under the purview of the editorial department, and anyone in that department can address any issue about the forum.
2) Customers cannot speak directly to the I.T. department about technical issues of the forum.
3) The person I spoke to in customer service did relay my concern to someone in the editorial department, and then relayed their response back to me.
The response was that they are aware of the problem, are considering how to fix it, cannot say when it will be fixed, and cannot say if it will be fixed.
One of the benefits of being a Trains Magazine subscriber is the newswire. But, if the website is bogged down and one can't read the newswire in a timely manner, there is little reason to re-subscribe.
Since my subscription will be up for renewal in a few months, perhaps I will just get the magazine at the hobby shop again if the cover looks interesting ...
The REAL benefit in doing that is that one doesn't have any money tied-up with a company that may or may not be around tomorrow!
Do you see my logic?
The Kalmbach website is now like new switcher power ...
... which is very fuel efficient, but gets little daily overall mileage compared to mainline power.
Another angle to the current deplorable situation is that the 'who is online' numbers are very, very misleading. The guests figure is no longer shown, which is unfortunate, because users AND guests combined give a more accurate picture of the situation. If my recollection is correct, guests use to far outnumber the users.
21302145 CDT --Users between 66 and 73. Pages taking 3-4 min to load.
Painful~
No patience for this tonight. Going to look at something else.
This problem is at least two weeks old. Does it really take a big outfit like Kalmbach this long to pull up its socks? How about making life a little uncomfortable for your webmaster?
I, too, gave up at 9 pm CDT last night. I waited over 5 minutes; nothing happened, so went back to watching TV.
I keep wondering, does anybody at Kalmbach really care? Perhaps this is just a way of getting rid of something unprofitable; if nobody uses it, nobody will miss it.
Modelcar ....An hour plus ago, I tried to do a post on here and it was so slow I gave up. Now, it came up in a "reasonable time", not fast, just reasonable. No wonder there is minimum activity of late on here...I thought the powers to be had it restored, but seems not to be true this evening.
....An hour plus ago, I tried to do a post on here and it was so slow I gave up. Now, it came up in a "reasonable time", not fast, just reasonable.
No wonder there is minimum activity of late on here...I thought the powers to be had it restored, but seems not to be true this evening.
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