This afternoon "Sparky," a small-scale train ride in Cleavland Park in Spartanburg derailed. Kind of sad, Sparky was such an institution. Here's a link to the story.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
How terrible! I wonder what happened? That looks like a substantially built line!
I do not want to take anything away from the local sherriff and the state patrol. I believe that they need to bring in someone with RR derailment investigative expertise.
This accident needs to be prevented in the future!!!
What a tragedy. This looked like a well maintained ride with some very quality equipment.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Picture seems to show the engines trucks are on the right of way with the car body in the ravene....discription on the article said it just 'stopped'....I would expect the operator rode on top of the locomotive and if the drivetrain of the locomotive had locked for some reason it would have pitched the operator in some direction and the uncontroled movement of the operator probably would have been sufficient to in some manner derail the engine......this is ALL conjecture just based on the picture.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Here's a picture of the locomotive and a couple of the cars:
The locomotive appears to be a Miniature Train Company G-16, which, based on the number of videos of the model, is fairly common in such circles. The engineer sits within the locomotive.
Here is a video of the ride. It appears that they come out of the station on a downhill curve to the trestle, which may be a contributing factor, as photos of the accident look like it occured at that spot.
Expanding on BaltACD's conjecture, it's possible they got rolling too fast and the engineer over compensated with too severe a brake application.
While the engineer was apparently one of their best, this was also the first day of the new season for them.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Watching that video, I don't get a very confident feeling with all that side-to-side hunting and play, and the several noticeable kinks in the curves that grab at the locomotive tracking. And that sudden acceleration heading downgrade into those curves makes me feel like that is more of a thrill ride than a train ride.
Although we don't know what went wrong, I would easily expect a derailment while riding that train.
blue streak 1 I do not want to take anything away from the local sherriff and the state patrol. I believe that they need to bring in someone with RR derailment investigative expertise. This accident needs to be prevented in the future!!!
You cannot prevent accidents.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Depends on the accident, don't it? ;)
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Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
Here are some photos of the accident from a variety of sources. The picture with the distorted side view of the bridge (probably an issue with the person's camera) shows what I believe is the locomotive's lead truck under the bridge. The locomotive's rear truck and the lead truck of the first car are the one's lying on an angle on the bridge.
From behind the wreck, you can see some of the damage to the ties. Based on how some of the ties are no longer perpendicular to the rails it is clear that the train derail towards the right and some of the wheels dragged along the ties for awhile. The shifting ties looks like they narrowed the alignment of the rails. What I find very interesting is the sole truck that ended up resting on the left side of the embankment. I would think the force of the train would have pushed it towards the outside of the curve like the train or at least stay on the ties. Also the truck that is upside down on the bridge is peculiar. At first I thought maybe it was placed there as rescuers were trying to get the train off of the people but why would they lift it up out of the ditch and onto the bridge when they could have just moved it to the side.
In the photo below, notice the kink on in the curve just before the bridge. After watching several youTube videos showing the Cleveland Park train, there are numerous kinks through out all of the railroad's curves. Whoever laid out the curves did a very poor job.
From the looks of the track in those photos, I'm wondering if anyone walked the track before this 'first run of the season' looking for problems. If they had, it seems to me that the train should not have been operated.
From the photos, it appears as though the wreck began with the derailment of the lead truck of the locomotive somewhat prior to reaching the guardrails of the trestle. That serious track kink visible in the photos may have caused the derailment, or it may have merely resulted from the derailment.
The kinks that I noticed in the video posted above by Tree68 are in the second curve after crossing this first trestle. As the train runs around that curve, you can see the effects of those kinks as they cause the locomotive to skew to the right, and then suddenly swerve back hard to the left.
Guardrails have two purposes. One is to guide derailed wheels across a bridge so they don’t run off the side and drop from the track structure. The other is to intercept substantially misaligned wheels that have derailed at some point prior to the bridge and guide them back into better alignment with the track before they enter the bridge.
There are differing schools of thought on how this second purpose is to be achieved, and how it is affected by the guardrail set configuration at its ends. This is a topic of its own, and maybe someone with knowledge of it can comment.
From the photos, it appears as though the configuration of the ends of the guardrail set worked against their purpose rather than for it. The configuration lacks the point of the converging guardrails that would provide the widest potential to improve the alignment of a derailed wheelset or entire truck as it approaches. The point also offers the least resistance to being snagged by a derailed wheelset or truck. Instead, the guardrails are only bent inward slightly with their ends cut square.
So, if an approaching derailed wheelset were drifting off to the right of the curve, its left wheel might move beyond the point where the left guardrail could recover it and keep it near the left stock rail as it ran onto the trestle. If the left wheel were too far to the right, the left guardrail may have guided it to the right instead of the left. Or the left wheel may have simply struck the left guardrail head-on, thus causing the truck to be torn from under the locomotive as the locomotive continued to the right and went over the edge of the trestle.
In any case, the guardrail apparently failed to perform its intended function. Indeed, having such a sharp curve entering the trestle would seem capable of defeating the purpose of a guardrail no matter how its ends were configured.
I would speculate that the locomotive trucks were attached by a solid connection to the locomotive frame, and would not normally separate in a derailment, as might be the case with standard gage locomotives. Therefore, the photos suggest that the trucks were torn out from under the locomotive by the violent collision with the blunt ends of the guardrail set.
At least one report said that the engineer had made several dry runs before any passengers rode on the train.
With a mix of adults and kids, we might assume an average weight of 125 pounds, and somewhere I saw that the train could carry about 30 people - for a possible payload of 3750 pounds.
It's possible an undetected flaw reared its ugly head.
I cannot see the details of the rail very clearly. It appears that there is little if any space between the rail joints. I have to wonder if a sun kink could have happened since we here had a very rapid warm up yesterday. A test run earlier may not have shown that?
One thing's for certain, by the time the accident report is completed the "news cycle" will have moved on and the media probably won't report on it. That being the case if there's any Spartenburg railfans on this site please keep us posted as to the results. We probably won't hear about it otherwise. And prayers, please, for the parents of that poor child. I can't imagine the horror of losing a child. It just has to leave a heartbreak that only the grave can erase.
MerrilyWeRollAlong Here are some photos of the accident from a variety of sources. The picture with the distorted side view of the bridge (probably an issue with the person's camera) shows what I believe is the locomotive's lead truck under the bridge. The locomotive's rear truck and the lead truck of the first car are the one's lying on an angle on the bridge.
If the hump in the above picture is not camera distortion....it looks like the bridge had a 'sun kink' of it's own. Every thing else in the picture seems to have normal proportions....so?
Firelock76 One thing's for certain, by the time the accident report is completed the "news cycle" will have moved on and the media probably won't report on it. That being the case if there's any Spartenburg railfans on this site please keep us posted as to the results. We probably won't hear about it otherwise. And prayers, please, for the parents of that poor child. I can't imagine the horror of losing a child. It just has to leave a heartbreak that only the grave can erase.
As a Spartanburg railfan, I'll keep you guys in the loop. Here's a bit about Sparky's History. The train has run on that track since 2003 but the train has been in the park since 1953.
Thank, Gp-9!
BaltACDIf the hump in the above picture is not camera distortion....it looks like the bridge had a 'sun kink' of it's own. Every thing else in the picture seems to have normal proportions....so?
A larger version of that picture had a portion of an ambulance in it, and it showed similar distortion. None of the other shots I've seen of the incident showed the bridge as being anything but straight and level.
What Bucyrus, said (in Part):
"...The kinks that I noticed in the video posted above by Tree68 are in the second curve after crossing this first trestle. As the train runs around that curve, you can see the effects of those kinks as they cause the locomotive to skew to the right, and then suddenly swerve back hard to the left..."
The start of the curve before the second bridge appears to have an artificially tightened curve ( possibly to decrease the radius to keep away from the retaining wall to the outside of the curve). Possibly that contributed to the derailment?
samfp1943 What Bucyrus, said (in Part): "...The kinks that I noticed in the video posted above by Tree68 are in the second curve after crossing this first trestle. As the train runs around that curve, you can see the effects of those kinks as they cause the locomotive to skew to the right, and then suddenly swerve back hard to the left..." The start of the curve before the second bridge appears to have an artificially tightened curve ( possibly to decrease the radius to keep away from the retaining wall to the outside of the curve). Possibly that contributed to the derailment?
I see what you mean about that curve tightening as it approaches the second bridge. However, the derailment happend on approach to the first bridge.
It is possible that the video does not at all reflect current operating practice or the track conditions at the time of the derailment.
In the video, it seems strange to slow down so much for the first trestle, which is straight, and then sail across the second trestle, through a curve that tightens as it meets the trestle, and then continues curving as it crosses the trestle.
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samfp1943: What Bucyrus, said (in Part): I see what you mean about that curve tightening as it approaches the second bridge. However, the derailment happend on approach to the first bridge. It is possible that the video does not at all reflect current operating practice or the track conditions at the time of the derailment. In the video, it seems strange to slow down so much for the first trestle, which is straight, and then sail across the second trestle, through a curve that tightens as it meets the trestle, and then continues curving as it crosses the trestle.
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I watched numerous YouTube videos of the the Cleveland Park train to see if I could find any clues that could have contributed to the accident. One videos showed the train slowing down to cross the first bridge and the engineer was heard that everyone should lift up their feet to lighten the train as they cross the bridge. Obviously it was a joke for the kids. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iowXwtCDTAU
There were other videos showing the train crossing the first bridge at speed without any issues.
At about 1PM Central Time, FOX News said it may have been sabotage.
If so, the perp should be dragged to death behind a herd of turtles.
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Our local 11pm news just reported that the inspector lied; that he had not actually run the train for testing. It was stated they know this bc the trains battery was dead. If true, I fully agree about the above, he "should be dragged to death behind a herd of turtles."
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Don't expect to ride a miniature train in South Carolina anytime soon. Here are some articles of interest regarding the on going investingation of the accident:
SOUTH CAROLINA INSPECTOR FAILED TO INSPECT MINIATURE RAILWAY: http://www.goupstate.com/article/20110321/ARTICLES/110329961/1112?Title=Officials-State-inspection-of-Cleveland-Park-train-falsified
SOUTH CAROLINA SHUTS DOWN ALL MINIATURE RAILWAYS: http://www.goupstate.com/article/20110321/ARTICLES/110329967/1083/ARTICLES?Title=Miniature-train-rides-shut-down-statewide-after-fatality
NO SABOTAGE: http://www.goupstate.com/article/20110321/ARTICLES/110329959/1083/ARTICLES?Title=Investigators-No-evidence-of-sabotage-in-Cleveland-Park-train-wreck
PHOTOS FROM THE DAY AFTER - the black colored rocks in the center of the picture is where the observation car came to a rest.
Lots of complicating factors and potential causes and inter-relationships here, but let me suggest 2 more that haven't been mentioned so far, and elaborate on 1 that has - though on the other hand, I haven't seen anything yet that would implicate them:
1. Wide gauge - more to the point, how much tolerance was there in the wheel tread width before the wheels would fall in at a wide gauge defect ? Did anyone know how to inspect the track for that, and did they ? What did they use for a track gauge ? A 6-ft. folding rule or a carpenter's square - even a yardstick - would be OK since this is not a standard gauge track, but was even that done ? Did they look for loose bolts, kinked-outward joints on the the outer rail of curves, and signs that the rail might be moving outward under the train, then returning to a more normal position afterwards - such as loose or raised spikes, etc. ?
2. Cross-level - even a comparatively small amount of out-of-level condition could be severe for that very narrow-gauge track. 3" = 0.25 ft. is an FRA defect for Class I track at 10 MPH, so for example, with 12" gauge (not sure what gauge this track is) that would be about 0.05' by proportion = 5/8", which might be hard to catch just visually. Did anyone have a level of any kind to check the track, and did they ? Did know how to and did they they get down on their hands and knees and 'sight' down the track as the old-time track foremen used to do ? The downgrade on a curve can be misleading both ways as to whether or not there is adverse cross-level - sometimes it looks worse than it is, and sometimes it looks better . . . .
3. Rail or track kink occurring under or just in front of the train - rail 'running" downgrade account of grade, speed, braking, heat expansion, and most notable, a lack of rail anchors. I don't believe that rail anchors or a workable substitute are made for such small rail, which leaves it vulnerable to that happening - there's nothing to prevent it. All of those other factors could have combined to make that happen - this location is almost a recipe for that.
- Paul North.
(1) These are amusement park rides and I would expect that the safety inspector has no expertise on flanged steel wheel on rail. The park operator probably has no detailed operating manual, just years of institutional memory passed down through the ranks. (sounds like a few shortlines)
(2) This is the third such incident I can think of in recent memory with the other two (Los Angeles and west of Denver (North Pole/Tiny Town)) being human caused. With the incident in CO being caused by overspeed in a curve after the operator unintentionally accellerated instead of braking. (wrong control lever applied)
The latest news is that the engineer admitted that he knew he was going too fast. Excessive speed could lead to climbing the outside rail on a curve. Such climbing could also be aided by a gage defect such as Paul mentioned above and / or a kink at a rail joint. I have not heard any explanation of why the engineer was going too fast.
This segment of track is about as bad as maintenance can be...rail appears to be unsecured for 7 tie lengths. Like any major incident, this one will be found to have more than one contributory cause and the absence of any one of which would most likely have prevented the incident.
Taking a unloaded 'Sparky' for a unloaded couple of laps does not constitute a adequate start of the season inspection of either the rolling stock or the track structure. Winter, even in South Carolina, takes a toll on things that must survive in the elements.
MerrilyWeRollAlong
BaltACD This segment of track is about as bad as maintenance can be...rail appears to be unsecured for 7 tie lengths. Like any major incident, this one will be found to have more than one contributory cause and the absence of any one of which would most likely have prevented the incident. Taking a unloaded 'Sparky' for a unloaded couple of laps does not constitute a adequate start of the season inspection of either the rolling stock or the track structure. Winter, even in South Carolina, takes a toll on things that must survive in the elements. MerrilyWeRollAlong:
MerrilyWeRollAlong:
I assume that that track condition is damage caused by the derailment, rather than a deteriorated track condition that caused the derailment.
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