Don't worry..most employers don't WANT skilled labor or an educated workforce. As much as possible we try to dumb down every job so that an unskilled or semi skilled person can do it. That's easier accomplished in some industries than in others..i..e. if you own a window cleaning business its easy...if you own an engineering firm then not so much.
Let''s say you're a typical employer with 20 people on your payroll. Would you rather have 20 highly skilled craftsmen or 20 unskilled workers? Unless you enjoy having your workers run your business for you and you enjoy trying to find hard to replace skilled workers, the answer is you want an unskilled workforce. A totally automated workplace isn't likely to happen for a long time..ie. where trucks, trains, and planes run themselves, so that's good news... workers who don't have college degrees or 4 year apprenticeships in a trade will remain in demand for some time into the future.
Ulrich Don't worry..most employers don't WANT skilled labor or an educated workforce. As much as possible we try to dumb down every job so that an unskilled or semi skilled person can do it. That's easier accomplished in some industries than in others..i..e. if you own a window cleaning business its easy...if you own an engineering firm then not so much. Let''s say you're a typical employer with 20 people on your payroll. Would you rather have 20 highly skilled craftsmen or 20 unskilled workers? Unless you enjoy having your workers run your business for you and you enjoy trying to find hard to replace skilled workers, the answer is you want an unskilled workforce. A totally automated workplace isn't likely to happen for a long time..ie. where trucks, trains, and planes run themselves, so that's good news... workers who don't have college degrees or 4 year apprenticeships in a trade will remain in demand for some time into the future.
I guess it depends on the type of business. Though I want employees that I don't have to babysit, and that won't cause me to be fined $45,000,000 by various gov't agencies.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding Will the anticipated higher fuel costs have any noticeable effects on the origins of products most Americans purchase?
Will the anticipated higher fuel costs have any noticeable effects on the origins of products most Americans purchase?
It will be interesting to see if the oversea transportation segment is willing to give any , to try and maintain the status quo.
If you look at all the costs avoided by producing overseas (labor, benefits, taxes, enviro,) the fuel segment is but a part of the total equation.
Yes..depends on the business, the job, and the degree of responsibility. Commission sales, for example, is one area that employs alot of people..requires limited skills, and offers almost unlimited earnings potential. I will hire a sales person and tell him /her to make 100 phone calls a day...so long as they do that and have a cursory understanding of what they're selling the law of averages will ensure that they make a better than average living...no real skills required. Lots of other jobs out there like that... and becoming that way.. where earnings are good and qualifications are minimal... in freight sales 100 calls a day pretty much ensures success, a HS diploma is not required.
Still need skills. Being able to sell people stuff is a skill many do not have.
I think that skills and education are two different areas... even if a job is for "unskilled" people -- there are still skills needed.
zugmann Still need skills. Being able to sell people stuff is a skill many do not have. I think that skills and education are two different areas... even if a job is for "unskilled" people -- there are still skills needed.
I agree. Without getting politically incorrect, I think we all know people who can do a great job at things that require physical strength/skills and fortitude, but who lack the cognitive skills to pursue higher ed and lack the people skills to be effective in sales or customer service. Most of the jobs they used to do are gone, never to return. What about them? Or are we going to have a permanent underclass of the never/hardly ever employed? Wait, we already do.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I've met smart people that never finished high school. I've also met people with multiple degrees that I wouldn't trust to baby sit a goldfish.
Too much emphasis on education...which is nothing but a business anymore. I have a degree, and I think we can all agree I'm no Rhodes Scholar. Or is that Rhoads?
(Dusty) "Roads" in your case!
schlimm zugmann: Still need skills. Being able to sell people stuff is a skill many do not have. I think that skills and education are two different areas... even if a job is for "unskilled" people -- there are still skills needed. I agree. Without getting politically incorrect, I think we all know people who can do a great job at things that require physical strength/skills and fortitude, but who lack the cognitive skills to pursue higher ed and lack the people skills to be effective in sales or customer service. Most of the jobs they used to do are gone, never to return. What about them? Or are we going to have a permanent underclass of the never/hardly ever employed? Wait, we already do.
zugmann: Still need skills. Being able to sell people stuff is a skill many do not have. I think that skills and education are two different areas... even if a job is for "unskilled" people -- there are still skills needed.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Different jobs really do have widely varying skill sets. Even in academia, having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you are remotely qualified. I remember being on an interview committee for an applicant. The more he talked (especially after a few beers - the old brewski test) the deeper he dug himself into weirdworld.
schlimm Different jobs really do have widely varying skill sets. Even in academia, having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you are remotely qualified. .
Different jobs really do have widely varying skill sets. Even in academia, having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you are remotely qualified. .
LoL. You're describing half my professors!!
zugmann schlimm: Different jobs really do have widely varying skill sets. Even in academia, having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you are remotely qualified. . LoL. You're describing half my professors!!
schlimm: Different jobs really do have widely varying skill sets. Even in academia, having a Ph.D. doesn't mean you are remotely qualified. .
In a different forum, there is a lot of heated discussion about unions, government employees, etc. Some folks point out all the examples of union and/or government workers who are goofs or total screw ups. But I still maintain it doesn't matter where you work, there will always be goofs and lazy a***s who get away with it.
schlimm In a different forum, there is a lot of heated discussion about unions, government employees, etc. Some folks point out all the examples of union and/or government workers who are goofs or total screw ups. But I still maintain it doesn't matter where you work, there will always be goofs and lazy a***s who get away with it.
Yep - all types of people in all types of jobs.
And sometimes the goofs and the top performers are one and the same. Rarely will a person give 100% all of the time...and smart employers will make allowances for that. Motivation comes and goes... life circumstances often take precedence... and performance therefore tends to vary over the course of one's career.
Do you want to know just how Screwed up an out of Control Govermant Agency can make things in this nation look no Further than CARB and the EPA and the Damage they have done to the OTR Trucking industry. Just 12 years ago Heavy Trucks used to get 7-8 MPG as Fuel Economy going down the road with Engines that would last over a Million Miles before they needed to have a 12,000 Overhaul done to them. Now fast Forward to 2011 the Industry is lucky to get 5 MPG and that is with an APU on the truck I got 7.6 MPG with no APU and Idled my engine for cooling and heat. Engines are lucky to go 500K before they need a 25,000 overhaul and every 250k miles your changing a filter that costs you 3 grand just for the filter and also requires you to use another fluid that runs 12 bucks a gallon and you burn that at the rate of 1 gallon per 5 gallons of Diesel consumed.
So let me figure this out so how is an engine that lasts half as long burns 33% more fuel to go the same distance also I need another 12K motor on my truck to stay cool or warm since CARB thinks less of a Human being than a Dog. Also my expenses are thru the roof yet your telling me that this is better for the Planet.
You know folks, this discussion has gone WAY past the original questioners intent, but I guess that's good. There's a lot of wisdom floating around out there and it's good to see some of it. Just a few more thoughts from me and I'll say no more on the subject. Look, no-one likes dirty air or dirty water, no-one. But, if you want to live in a modern, industrial society with all the benefits and yes, blessings it has to offer you have to live with a certain level of "schmutz", it's unavoidable. Finding the level you can live with is the trick. The Chinese have found their level, it's air you can cut with a knife, but you know what, they don't care. People are working and they're making money hand over fist. Am I recommending we do the same? Certainly not! What I am saying is the pursuit of perfection can be self- defeating. "The best is the enemy of the good." Perfect doesn't exist, except in the mind of God. And remember one more thing. Businesses exist to make money, not to act as job programs or social improvement agencies. If they can't make money in one location they'll go where they can. Screaming about it won't change the fact, and that's the way it's always been. We've got hard choices to make here.
Firelock76 [snipped] Finding the level you can live with is the trick. The Chinese have found their level, it's air you can cut with a knife, but you know what, they don't care. People are working and they're making money hand over fist. Am I recommending we do the same? Certainly not!
That would have been typical of Pittsburgh, PA - among many other places - up until around 1975 or so. See this account of the 1948 Donora smog incident that killed 20 people and 800 animals, and sickened approx. 7,000 - about half of the town's population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Donora_smog
Note especially the fire chief's 'remedy', the coordination of the emergency services, and how quick the responsible industries were to 'step up the the plate' and acknowledge their responsibility (including also blaming/ dragging in the railroads' contribution !) . . . NOT !
- Paul North.
Interesting article Paul.. I get the impression that as whole we're better off today than we were 30 or 50 years in terms of taking care of the environment. Lakes that were closed to swimming when i was kid are now open...
I remember living in New York City back in 1965 to 1967... I was very young then but remember massive amounts of litter everywhere one looked. Today the city is much cleaner..
Back on June 22, 1969 - not far from you now - the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland, Ohio infamously caught fire ! From this webpage - http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642 [railroad-related emphasis added - PDN]:
"This Cuyahoga River fire lasted just thirty minutes, but it did approximately fifty thousand dollars in damage -- principally to some railroad bridges spanning the river. It is unclear what caused the fire, but most people believe sparks from a passing train ignited an oil slick in the Cuyahoga River. This was not the first time that the river had caught on fire. Fires occurred on the Cuyahoga River in 1868, 1883, 1887, 1912, 1922, 1936, 1941, 1948, and in 1952. The 1952 fire caused over 1.5 million dollars in damage."
"What goes around, comes around . . . "
Murphy,
Let me try to answer your question in the simplest of terms.
For most of my life I have tried to buy American made products. It's not because I,m discriminatory, I just feel they are of better quality and I'm willing to pay the price for the latter. An example would be an American made jacket versus one made off shore. The quality of the former may be much higher than one purchased from an importer.
I've seen that in action. Home-made bread is always better than that of the mass produced bakery is a good analogy. The last jacket I bought that was American made lasted more than twenty years. Can't say the same for products made overseas.
Do we truly save money if we buy cheap and expect things to last only a few years?
Just my humble.
Norm
Buying American is an interesting sentiment but how do you buy American when an American-made product no longer exists, like a television?
CSSHEGEWISCH Buying American is an interesting sentiment but how do you buy American when an American-made product no longer exists, like a television?
Buy a book.
The environment is much cleaner today than 50-100 years ago. I don’t believe that the cost of environmental regulations is a major factor in outsourcing jobs. In fact, I don’t believe that outsourcing is a major factor in the current manufacturing depression. The biggest reason for that is the anti-business attitude of today’s political climate. A clear implication is being given that making a profit is immoral. No wonder business is holding back.
And while current environmental regulations may not be dragging down the economy, what about the CO2 regulations that we are told are right around the corner? Those could make the previous environmental regulations seem like a walk in the woods. The belief that CO2 is a pollutant is a sea change in our regulatory structure.
Along those lines, what qualifies as American made? An item made oversees by a U S based company or an item made in the U S by a foreign based company?
Jeff
I don't care where its made so long as it works. My parents own a frig and a stove that they bought new in 1967...they still work just fine. My appliances on the other hand last five years or so before they begin to shake, rattle and roll...and then break or catch fire. My first shaver lasted me almost 20 years...now I can't get a decent shave with anything that is five years old or older.. Anyone remember the Brockway Husky (truck)? Those things were built like tanks, made of steel if not iron, and built to last before the plastics and fiberglass "revolution" killed them.
jeffhergert Along those lines, what qualifies as American made? An item made oversees by a U S based company or an item made in the U S by a foreign based company? Jeff
"American made" Preference in order: 1. Made in America, American corporation, preferably by union workers. 2. Made in American, foreign corporation 3.Made overseas for an American corporation to sell here (at least some of the money paid stays at home). Unfortunately, for many items, #1 & 2 aren't possible.
Railway Man waltersrails: There would be a lot more American Made Products and tons more jobs if the EPA Would butt out of everyones Bizness. USA and Steamers all the way!!!! The cost of environmental compliance is insignificant next to the cost of labor, machinery, raw materials, and energy. Even for a very dirty process such as oil refining, environmental compliance is less than 1% of operating costs. The American Petroleum Institute (the industry's own advocacy group) calculates that environmental compliance costs about $0.14 per barrel of refined products sold. Cancelling every possible environmental regulation tomorrow wouldn't move significant jobs back to the U.S. RWM
waltersrails: There would be a lot more American Made Products and tons more jobs if the EPA Would butt out of everyones Bizness. USA and Steamers all the way!!!!
There would be a lot more American Made Products and tons more jobs if the EPA Would butt out of everyones Bizness. USA and Steamers all the way!!!!
The cost of environmental compliance is insignificant next to the cost of labor, machinery, raw materials, and energy. Even for a very dirty process such as oil refining, environmental compliance is less than 1% of operating costs. The American Petroleum Institute (the industry's own advocacy group) calculates that environmental compliance costs about $0.14 per barrel of refined products sold. Cancelling every possible environmental regulation tomorrow wouldn't move significant jobs back to the U.S.
RWM
I believe this is painting with too broad a brush. If cost of enviromental compliance is only 1%, why is Georgia Power/Southern Company seriously considering closing coal burning Plant Harlee as well as a number of other coal powered power plants instead of installing the new scrubbers? This decision is also being repeated by power companies across the country.
If the cost of compliance is truly only 1%, these plant closures will be an extreme case of the tail wagging the dog!
Jay
zugmann I've met smart people that never finished high school. I've also met people with multiple degrees that I wouldn't trust to baby sit a goldfish. Too much emphasis on education...which is nothing but a business anymore. I have a degree, and I think we can all agree I'm no Rhodes Scholar. Or is that Rhoads?
The first line of your statement brings to mind the term "educated beyond one's intelligence". Reminds me of the time a country gentleman was arguing a case before the Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners in Georgia. He told them "there is more common sense in this pair overalls than there is sitting up at the board table".
garr The cost of environmental compliance is insignificant next to the cost of labor, machinery, raw materials, and energy. Even for a very dirty process such as oil refining, environmental compliance is less than 1% of operating costs. The American Petroleum Institute (the industry's own advocacy group) calculates that environmental compliance costs about $0.14 per barrel of refined products sold. Cancelling every possible environmental regulation tomorrow wouldn't move significant jobs back to the U.S. RWM I believe this is painting with too broad a brush. If cost of enviromental compliance is only 1%, why is Georgia Power/Southern Company seriously considering closing coal burning Plant Harlee as well as a number of other coal powered power plants instead of installing the new scrubbers? This decision is also being repeated by power companies across the country. If the cost of compliance is truly only 1%, these plant closures will be an extreme case of the tail wagging the dog! Jay
The cost of environmental compliance is insignificant next to the cost of labor, machinery, raw materials, and energy. Even for a very dirty process such as oil refining, environmental compliance is less than 1% of operating costs. The American Petroleum Institute (the industry's own advocacy group) calculates that environmental compliance costs about $0.14 per barrel of refined products sold. Cancelling every possible environmental regulation tomorrow wouldn't move significant jobs back to the U.S. RWM
First, I noted that the cost of environmental compliance as a cost of goods in the U.S. is less than 1%. (Well, actually I didn't say it, it's what others calculated.) For some specific goods the cost of environmental compliance is very high, for others very low. Looking at the system as a whole, it adds up to less than 1%.
Second, look at the utility's total cost of operations -- fuel, labor, overhead, capital equipment, etc. Add up all of these. Subtract out the cost of environmental compliance. See how much it compares to the cost of fuel alone (it's very small for most utilities)
The Edison Electric Institute (the electric utilities trade organization) estimates the environmental compliance for all utilities for the years 2007-2025 will be $47.8 billion, or $2.5 billion per year. The cost of buying fossil fuels for all utillities in 2010 was about $45 billion for coal, $4 billion for oil, and $43 billion for natural gas per the EIA. Doing the math, environmental compliance is 2.71% of fuel cost. That percentage doesn't include labor, capital and consumables -- add those in an the number has to drop further. These are somewhat messy numbers because the EEI document is unclear about exactly what it classifies as a utility, whereas EIA rolls in independent power producers into its numbers as well as commercial and industrial sector generators. But it indicates that as a whole, environmental compliance is a small component of the total cost of electricity.
See http://www.entergy.com/global/documents/utility/industry/EEi_rising_electricity_costs.pdf
and http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/tablees2a.html
garr zugmann: I've met smart people that never finished high school. I've also met people with multiple degrees that I wouldn't trust to baby sit a goldfish. Too much emphasis on education...which is nothing but a business anymore. I have a degree, and I think we can all agree I'm no Rhodes Scholar. Or is that Rhoads? The first line of your statement brings to mind the term "educated beyond one's intelligence". Reminds me of the time a country gentleman was arguing a case before the Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners in Georgia. He told them "there is more common sense in this pair overalls than there is sitting up at the board table". Jay
zugmann: I've met smart people that never finished high school. I've also met people with multiple degrees that I wouldn't trust to baby sit a goldfish. Too much emphasis on education...which is nothing but a business anymore. I have a degree, and I think we can all agree I'm no Rhodes Scholar. Or is that Rhoads?
Sure...and my brother runs a marathon every year but says he isn't really in good shape.. If you have a degree from a recognized college or university then you most probably are above average in intelligence...This is especially true if you've gone through a science or engineering program...the dummies get screened out pretty quick if they get in at all. Even if you don't use your degree..the simple fact that you have one says something positive.
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